Oh. how quiet they've gone

[johnm]

............................... photo's recently taken ............... Bishop family reunion - front lawn (ex john laws joke)

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

Lighten up you guys, we've got the best politicians that money can buy!

 

(I hope that's not classed as politically incorrect language)

 

 

[nomadpete]

Seriously, the sooner we get rid of that golden severance package that pollies get, the sooner Australia can start heading in a better direction. At present their only incentive is to claw their way into a seat and cling to it as long as possible to feather their own nest. It would be nice if we could focus their attention on the well being of the rest of the population.

 

Now, how do I go about reaching out to grip their family jewels and whisper "Now, let's not hurt one another, eh?"

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

There are plenty of examples of politicians making good decisions but being replaced long before this wisdom bears fruit. Often their opponent's name is inscribed for posterity on the opening plaque on bridges, dams, buildings etc. Both politics and business need a mechanism to reward good long-term management. One model to base this on is the music and movie industry, where artists are supposed to get royalties each time their song or movie is played.

 

 

[nomadpete]

That might be a good idea in theory, but... I'm not about to pay royalties for each 'good' government decision. That sound like extra taxes. And it still wouldn't balance out the waste that we see.

 

Last I heard, there weren't many lobby groups paying (encouraging) musicians to play their tune.

 

Plato had some good ideas a while ago (Plato's Republic), but whatever model you try, it falls foul of greedy and/or psychopathic ambitious individuals.

 

Maybe we could try true democracy for a change, instead of governing by bully groups(parties). Our present party system mostly forbids it's members to vote according to their conscience!

 

Anyway, I think Plato said that democracy is governance by the lowest common denominator. We seem to get a lot of that.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... I'm not about to pay royalties for each 'good' government decision. That sound like extra taxes...

We pay bonuses for good work. In some countries waiters get paid a tiny retainer but depend on tips from good service. The same applies to many salespeople. The bulk of their income is commissions from being successful.

 

Perhaps retirement income for business leaders and politicians should be based on a "dividend" from anything successful they created.

 

...Maybe we could try true democracy for a change, instead of governing by bully groups(parties). Our present party system mostly forbids it's members to vote according to their conscience!...

I fully agree, Pete. Where in our Constitution are Political Parties mentioned?

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Perhaps retirement income for business leaders and politicians should be based on a "dividend" from anything successful they created.

Business leaders, that's their companies business. Regarding politicians pay totally agree OK. Pay them a hefty fixed sum, no extras. Of course it would also work the other way - you stuff up and you lose your house and super. Like in the real world.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

We pay bonuses for good work. In some countries waiters get paid a tiny retainer but depend on tips from good service. The same applies to many salespeople. The bulk of their income is commissions from being successful.Perhaps retirement income for business leaders and politicians should be based on a "dividend" from anything successful they created.

 

I fully agree, Pete. Where in our Constitution are Political Parties mentioned?

It kinda already is, except we (the voting public) fail to follow through on poor performance. If a politican is doing a crap job then they should only last a term and not qualify for such a hefty pension, however time after time we continue to reelect poor performers. So who's really to blame?

 

 

[nomadpete]

Don't blame me. If there is a group of worthy folk available, they'll get my vote. But our elections are "won" by the least disliked, and I think they have a lot of hide to claim that the electorate gave them a mandate to anything

 

 

[fly_tornado]

you guys missed the liberal democrats recent success, they picked up thousand of votes in NSW because people 1./ donkey voted and 2./ didn't read the senate paper properly.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It kinda already is, except we (the voting public) fail to follow through on poor performance. If a politican is doing a crap job then they should only last a term and not qualify for such a hefty pension, however time after time we continue to reelect poor performers. So who's really to blame?

Trouble is, elections are a Biblical form of justice: the voters tend to smite every member of the disliked team, regardless of their efforts as a local member.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

you guys missed the liberal democrats recent success, they picked up thousand of votes in NSW because people 1./ donkey voted and 2./ didn't read the senate paper properly.

...and don't underestimate the value of a good party name. One bloke got in under the banner "Better Future for our Children. Who knows what he stood for?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

My view is that business and now politics is all about the short term...no one seems to be looking long term......Labours NBN was about the longest term public project that we as a nation seem to have seen in recent times and the LNP used the long term nature to their political advantage in the election campaigning at the time. We as a nation will pay for that short sightedness in the long term. Furthermore I doubt that Labour will again consider a project longer in term than a single election cycle.......and they will be sure to beat the LNP around the ears if they were to think of something requiring more than a single cycle to do.... The very real nation building infrastructure projects we need to become competitive on the world stage cannot be built in one political cycle.......Railways always comes to mind to me, we have a 95% dead and out of date infrastructure yet as a nation could probably really benefit from an infrastructure refresh that builds from the ground up, not merely a new coat of paint on the old crap...... I mean look at the railroad between Sydney and Brisbane, it'll never on the current right of way achieve any sort of high speed ability because there are more turns and twists in the line than a political story.......The NSW XPT trains when introduced in the 80's was at an engine/train level capable of 160+kmph.....average speed between Syd/Brisbane I would guess is likely much lower than 80 kmph

 

It is that short-sightedness and the political realities of our culture that allowed such a current political backstab at any costs approach to thrive that is at fault here...Its easy to blame the polly's but reality is that they market to, and are driven by the bell curve, if the vast majority of the Australian population lacks the ability to critically think and test statements made, and has an attention span for things political measured in days/weeks rather than moths to years then we get what we deserve.......I don't know how we lift the average up to a level that will allow long term visionary projects in Australia.....I fear for where we will be in 20-30 years time, I fear we will be the squandered lucky country.......

 

It can be very damning to know that the politicians are merely playing to the average Australian......

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

How to reduce ignorance in the voting public:

 

A decent public education system.

 

A robust public broadcaster or two.

 

Diverse media ownership.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Yes, education would open the door to rational debate and maybe start some long term thinking.

 

In fact, we should take note of the "oriental" method - the rise of numerous Asian economies lay in their adoption of planning ahead - by a generation or two. Not by our three year election cycle planning.

 

And open, diverse media would definitely help. All we get is "Give them Bread and circuses". And spin bites instead of context.

 

 

[skeptic36]

My view is that business and now politics is all about the short term...no one seems to be looking long term......Labours NBN was about the longest term public project that we as a nation seem to have seen in recent times and the LNP used the long term nature to their political advantage in the election campaigning at the time. We as a nation will pay for that short sightedness in the long term. ....

Yes, but you can't go investing so much money in a project that was taking sooooo long to build (2% complete by the time the were tossed out) when technology is moving so fast in that area. The thing will most likely be outdated before it is even finished.

 

I agree, build dams, water diversion schemes, roads and railways etc. but find a way to get faster internet speeds quicker and cheaper than the NBN.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

fibre optics have been top of the pile in terms of bandwidth for 30 years and show no signs yet of being replaced anytime soon......In fact I suspect that only when we can do faster than light, assuming it is indeed even possible, will fibre be made obsolete.....or to put it another way, the copper cable technology that is at end of useful life will have a useful life only a fraction of that which fibre will likely ultimately have.......when it comes to cost, its putting the clear plastic in the ground that costs so much...need more bandwidth, simply replace the kit at each end for a fraction of the cost of the plastic in the ground......

 

re 2% finished......yeah but if the first 2% was always going to take 50% of the total timeline required then is it really an issue? I have fibre to the home with NBN due to Coffs being one of the first (and seemingly only) places to get it...Its simply fantastic...... Much of the delays were as a result of Australia having lost its configuration baseline info for the existing copper network with much of it being rediscovered and documented during the NBN Build......The loss of the original data isn't somehow magically mitigated by stopping the new rollout, the rediscovery will still have to occur and be paid for except that I suspect now it will be piecemeal and no one will ever know if and when we are back in control...assuming that is ever really likely....(not likely in my view).... the analogy of putting new paint over old crap comes to mind....Ok if it serves a useful purpose but in my mind a freshly painted turd is still a turd

 

My personal view is that it was gold plated......NBN provide the NBN router at the home at their cost, including a backup battery for every user!!! which then plugs into the end customers router....I personally would have ditched the NBN Router and let people chose whatever CPE equipment they want....its all point to point so a bad choice or configuration by a customer affects only them, no one else, with the ISP, not NBN being required to make it all work... The NBN Router and battery should have been an option only, not a forced choice for those that absolutely must have PSTN availability in a telephone system....

 

 

[nomadpete]

Coming from a telco background, I endorse your comments Andy.

 

Also , I blame competition for the delays in getting a fast COMMS system in Australia. Many years ago, Just prior to privatisation, Telecom Australia were investigating and planning what is now called fibre to the node. Provision of cable TV was the driver back then but once the glass is in the ground you can send anything over it. But along came Optus and the only way to retain customers was to try to keep up with their outdated aerial co-ax cable network. That set us back many years. Now most of us are once again stuck with a compromised data service.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Tha tired old mantra that everything runs better when it's privatised; Singapore proves that need not be so.

 

 

[dazza 38]

you guys missed the liberal democrats recent success, they picked up thousand of votes in NSW because people 1./ donkey voted and 2./ didn't read the senate paper properly.

Don't blame me, I vote LDP.( well I would but we didnt have an LDP candidate.)

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Seriously, the sooner we get rid of that golden severance package that pollies get, the sooner Australia can start heading in a better direction. At present their only incentive is to claw their way into a seat and cling to it as long as possible to feather their own nest. It would be nice if we could focus their attention on the well being of the rest of the population.Now, how do I go about reaching out to grip their family jewels and whisper "Now, let's not hurt one another, eh?"

I received this email from an ex Pollie in my query to him about an email circulating about the gross retirement packages they are supposed to get.

 

Perhaps this will clear the air somewhat?

 

Phil.

 

1. No MP elected after 2001 (14 years ago) will ever get a parliamentary pension. They now get the same super contributions as any other public servant. Those elected before that date contributed 17.4% of their salary towards their pension (and still do). For example the PM contributes about $87,000 to his pension every year. Less than 50% of MPs qualified for a pension before that date. Judges and military people still get pensions , MPs do not. I suspect the next PM will not get a pension because they will have been elected after 2001.

 

2. Retired politicians have to comply with all Centrelink laws just as every other Australian does. MPs don't receive a salary after leaving politics whether it's by choice or defeat, so the nonsense about salaries after politics further down in the email is completely false. Further down he has confused salaries with pensions and the maximum pension was 75% of the average wage of the MP, not 100% of their best wage - there is a big difference! I thought it was laughable that he suggested that people push for a salary of only 2 years after leaving politics, when the severance pay for those elected after 2001 is zero (unlike most other jobs) and there is zero salary. I repeat zero salary.

 

3. That suggestion would be illegal under any contract law and would have a minuscule effect on debt. When we were in government under Howard and Costello we got rid of all debt and had $40 billion in surplus, so the same reasoning would say the MPs who produced it should get a share of that surplus - not very smart reasoning.

 

4. MPs have not voted on their pay rises for 9 years and are determined by an independent tribunal - it was Abbott who made the suggestion to the independent tribunal for a pay freeze and it was accepted . MPs have not had a pay rise in over 2 years but I hear there is one coming.

 

There was a larger than normal pay rise about 3 years ago in exchange for no overseas study trips and a severe reduction in gold pass entitlements. ( gold passes went to less than 15% of former MPs for long and distinguished service.)

 

5. MPs have never had a privileged health care system and are treated equally as every other Australian citizen. Unlike other Australians MPs don't get holidays or holiday pay leave loading, in fact they are normally expected to work on holidays eg Australia Day, Anzac Day etc.

 

6. MPs have to comply with all laws without exception. What a silly suggestion!

 

7. You cannot void contract law. The rule of law is essential for good governance and international standing. That sort of suggestion would only come from a banana republic devotee.

 

Of course this idiot says you should pass it on to 20 people if you agree but delete if you don't. I think people should pass on the facts to 20 people not the fiction and lies.

 

 

[skeptic36]

fibre optics have been top of the pile in terms of bandwidth for 30 years and show no signs yet of being replaced anytime soon..

In the last 13 years we've gone from a 22k modem which you could go and have a cuppa while waiting for a page of text to download, then it was a 56k modem, then satellite download, then adsl 1, adsl2, which we have now, wifi , touchscreens etc. etc. I guess you foresaw all that before it happened.

 

re 2% finished......yeah but if the first 2% was always going to take 50% of the total timeline required

My mistake, I thought when they said 2%, they meant the job was 1/50th complete, and it would take 50 times that long to finish....

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

In the last 13 years we've gone from a 22k modem which you could go and have a cuppa while waiting for a page of text to download, then it was a 56k modem, then satellite download, then adsl 1, adsl2, which we have now, wifi , touchscreens etc. etc. I guess you foresaw all that before it happened

Nope in the last 13 years we have gone from Customer Premise Equipment (CPE), being the equipment at the end of the line, of the type you mentioned. If you look up fibre optic cable (here's good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_fiber ) you'll see that has been around for a long time with the limiting factor being the equipment on the ends of the fibre (and that's a bit of a generalisation that doesn't stand too much technical scrutiny, but is Ok as a generalisation for general consumption.... the actual cable has significantly improved over time but today is unlikely to be a limiting factor..... I guess there is real risk of me doing a Bill Gates here and saying if as a result of being an early adopter I'm limited to speeds of multi gbps per discreet light frequency when I could potentially be getting petabits per second then I cant yet see how that will be limiting to me......

 

Or to put it another way the optic fibre is just the medium, the smarts are in the send/receive heads at either end. A simile might be that broadly speaking wireless is no good, yet back 30 years ago wireless was probably limited to kbps, if that, and now where up into the Gbps, yet they are all wireless....

 

But all that said your right, I cant see the future anymore than you can, but I personally would feel much more future proofed with fibre optic cable as my last mile transmission medium than 50 year old copper because we might at some unknown point int he future get something better than fibre .......

 

If we in aviation adopted that view we'd still be waiting for something better than the IC engine cause surely there is something better in the longterm...

 

 

[skeptic36]

If we in aviation adopted that view we'd still be waiting for something better than the IC engine cause surely there is something better in the longterm...

Or we could have invested all our money in an engine that is going to be really good but will take twenty years to develop so we can install it in our fuselage. ( it doesn't have wings because all our efforts went into the engine). Then when we have this engine running we find somebody else has improved battery technology and our engine is good for the museum......

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

You know in defence and in large commercial civil engineering they had this issue decades ago....how do you define % complete. They decided that earned value was the best definition and there isn't a single answer, rather it provides answers in terms of $ (ie you've spent 1/2 of the budget so are 1/2 complete), schedule (1/2 the workpackages are done so your half way done) and time (you said it would take 5 years and its 2.5years so your half way done.......Of course its unlikely that every measure of $, discreet work packages and time will all align, so what happens when the time is 1/2, the dollars are 3/4 and the work done is 1/4....other than alarm bells ringing everywhere.......

 

Anyway the point is that in complex projects if someone says its 2% done question exactly what the 2% refers to.........Earned value is a methodology for planning, and reporting complex projects so everyone has a common understanding of where things are at........specifically designed to stop the Government, in the case of defence, having paid for 75% of the work yet in terms of actual work done in workpackages only seeing 25% done....

 

The actual measures used for earned value are BCWP, (Budget Cost of Work Performed), ACWP (Actual Cost of Work Performed), BCWS (Budgeted Cost of Work Scheduled) from these specific indexes for Schedule performance and Cost performance can be derived and they are the definitive measure of how things are going.......

 

But.......could you imagine a politician speaking about Schedule Performance Index (SPI) when they can drop simple terms like 2% complete........... and they have different 5 measures from which to cherry-pick the number that best suits their argument purposes.........

 

For the insomniacs who need some sleeping assistance a much more indepth discussion of Earned Value Management (EVM) can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_value_management

 

Oh and by the way, Im not arguing that NBN used EVM, I have no idea if they did or didn't, but would expect that senior management and project managers would be well aware of its use...after all defence has used it for decadses..... Complex projects, each one relatively unique and not done in Australia before, very small quantity builds (other industries would call these prototyping runs) sounds like an NBN to me