The Random thought thread

[red750]

I can't remember when I last had McDonalds, would have been around 10 years ago. They wee mediocre then, and have gone downhill since. But their prices have gone through the roof. I don't often have  that kind of take away. Pizza or fish and chips alternatively Friday nights. We have a good local pizza place (not a chain) where I have known the owner for about 15 years, and the local fish and chippery is also very good. Occasionally I will pick up a BBQ Cheeseburger from Hungry Jack's (Burger King in the US). They are not big, but quite tasty, and only cost $3.50. Most burgers are well over $10.00. I also tried what KFC calls a Go-bucket of chips and popcorn chicken, which is also only $4.50. Not a meal, but a good snack. Popcorn chicken is small balls of fried chicken about he size of a piece of popcorn. Loose change menu stuff. 

[Litespeed]

Real burgers have a big half pound of proper mince pattie made fresh that day.

 

My local ones are huge and rarely can I finish one.

I swear they are trying to fatten me up.

[old man emu]

If you get the chance, try another American chain - Carl's Jr. I used to got to Hungry Jacks, but they are only slightly better than Maccas, so I have lunch at Carl's when I go to Dubbo. They don't microwave the buns, so they hold together. They don't shred the lettuce, you get a good part of a leaf. Their chips are crispy. Their "All Day Meal" in medium is $9.95 with a free refill of the drink. 

 

Even so, you can't beat a real Aussie hamburger from the Acropolis, run by Nick the Greek.

 

 

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

 

But that bit of prose she did was purely tongue in cheek.. you know..

Of course I knew that she was taking the piss. I think she did a really good job of doing that.

[red750]

[willedoo]

I haven't seen onetrack on the forum for a while, since the Friday before last. Hope he's ok; he's normally on here fairly regularly.

[red750]

And here's another one that will bring heaps of criticism upon me.

 

I think it's about time that the death penalty be reintroduced for men who murder their wives, partners, girlfriends, or any woman who turns down their advances. Another woman killed at Cobram in northern Victoria today. That makes about 5 in the last month or so, 30 in Australia this year. It is absolutely out of hand.

 

I know people will say "What if they get the wrong guy?", and initially, Samantha Murphy's husband was considered responsible by many on social media. But if there existing reports of domestic violence and AVO's, the field will be considerably reduced. Naturally, an exhaustive investigation would have to completed before sentencing. BUt if the death penalty was on the books, surely it would make the perpetrator reconsider.

[facthunter]

It makes them have nothing to lose. State sponsored murder is  not the sign of a progressive society.  Where are you getting these ideas from?.Nev

[red750]

Something's got to be done to stop the mongrels. A slap on the wrist with a feather is getting nowhere.

[facthunter]

You are going to the DARK side.  You didn't answer my question. Nev 

[red750]

Still done in some US states. How else do you teach men they are not entitled. There is no excuse for violence against women, particularly murder. I have no problem with corporal or capital punishment if the crime warrants it. If you behave yourself, it won't bother you.

[nomadpete]

As I have said before, in my opinion, nobody in their right mind will harm the one they love.

 

The problem is mental health.

 

No amount of law threats will change the actions of a person who is having a mental health rage problem.

 

Twice in my life I have had my life physically threatened by partners who were undergoing irrational rage episodes. On one occasion our teenage kids helped wrestle a knife out of my wife's hand. Later professional diagnosis showed it was all due to psychological problems. At the time of these events, no amount of rational discussion was possible. I can assure you, once a person is undergoing a psychotic episode, they are capable of dreadful stuff that none of their friends will believe.

Edited April 24 by nomadpete
Reworded

[old man emu]

This week's domestic murder in Forbes, NSW has had me wondering about the male culture the alleged offender was mixing in. Are our young men so inured to being violent in domestic situations that they won't try to check it in members of their group. 

 

However, I have a feeling that these blokes who do these things are so way out of it that they would be excluded from any circle of friends they may have had in the past.

 

Once again, however, we have an example of a serious offender at large on bail after having been charged with rape, assault and even sticking a finger up at the Court by breaching a Court ordered AVO. Elsewhere I have presented the criteria to be considered when granting bail. It is obvious in the Forbes matter that the protection of the victim was not given heed to.

[Marty_d]

4 hours ago, red750 said:

And here's another one that will bring heaps of criticism upon me.

 

Interesting.  So you have a pretty good idea that what you're about to say will be shot down.

 

If you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that every person accused of premeditated murder (premeditated is implied in your statement "who murder their wives...") is guilty, without reason or extenuating circumstances (eg mercy killing, assisted suicide, years of physical/emotional/psychological abuse committed on them, etc), then go for it.

The simple fact is that you cannot.  Courts get it wrong all the time.  Juries get it wrong all the time.  People have been exonerated after spending 20 years in prison.  So they should just have been killed by the state... by ALL OF US... and we just shrug and say "Oops, sorry about that"?

 

It may surprise you to know that I fully support the police killing of a person who is threatening the life of someone else or the police themselves.  Classic case in point was the knife killer in Bondi Junction.  He had already killed a number of people and probably would have killed more if not shot by the police officer.  She should be given a medal, and more importantly lots of counselling, for doing her job exactly right and saving lives.

 

Your claim that the death penalty would act as a deterrent to the perpetrators of domestic violence is not valid.   There's a simple test.  You mentioned that some US states still have the death penalty (while some do not).  If you were to look at the murder rates by US state, and compare them to the states which have the death penalty, your deterrence claim should mean those states have a lower murder rate, no?

 

Let's find out.  Below are the figures from the CDC's (Center for Disease Control & Prevention) National Center for Health Statistics.  These are for the latest available year, 2021.

Beside them I have an indicator "Y" if that state has the death penalty.

 

State	Homicides per 100,000	Deaths	Death penalty
Mississippi	23.7	656	Y
Louisiana	21.3	943	Y
Alabama	15.9	748	Y
New Mexico	15.3	306
South Carolina	13.4	656	Y
Missouri	12.4	716	Y
Illinois	12.3	1,487
Maryland	12.2	709
Tennessee	12.2	810	Y
Arkansas	11.7	335	Y
Georgia	11.4	1,206	Y
Delaware	11.3	103
North Carolina	9.7	991	Y
Indiana	9.6	624	Y
Kentucky	9.6	408	Y
Ohio	9.3	1,020	Y
Pennsylvania	9.2	1,101	Y
Oklahoma	8.9	342	Y
Michigan	8.7	822
Nevada	8.5	264	Y
Texas	8.2	2,391	Y
Arizona	8.1	562	Y
Florida	7.4	1,468	Y
Virginia	7.2	606
West Virginia	6.9	114
Alaska	6.4	49
California	6.4	2,495	Y
Kansas	6.4	180	Y
Wisconsin	6.4	348
Colorado	6.3	368
South Dakota	5.3	45	Y
Oregon	4.9	204	Y
Connecticut	4.8	160
New Jersey	4.8	409
New York	4.8	918
Washington	4.5	346
Montana	4.4	46	Y
Minnesota	4.3	232
Nebraska	3.6	70	Y
Rhode Island	3.6	40
North Dakota	3.4	24
Iowa	3.2	94
Hawaii	2.7	39
Utah	2.7	91	Y
Massachusetts	2.3	160
Idaho	2.2	41	Y
Maine	1.7	20
New Hampshire	0	15
Vermont	0	10
Wyoming	0	16	Y

 

Far from the death penalty leading to a lower homicide rate, it seems to be weighted the other way.  Obviously not much of a prevention.

 

Just to drill down those figures a bit.

- Of the top 25 states by homicide rate, 18 have the death penalty.

- Of the bottom 25 states by homicide rate, 9 have the death penalty.

 

Just for shits and giggles I also overlay the voting results of the 2020 presidential election.  *Just the overall state result, not by electorate.

Can you guess?

- Of the top 25 states by homicide rate, 14 were Republican (Trump) and 11 were Democrat (Biden).

- Of the bottom 25 states by homicide rate, 11 were Republican (Trump) and 14 were Democrat (Biden).

 

One more test.  How many of the 27 states which have the death penalty voted for Trump in 2020?

- 21.

 

So there you go.  The death penalty is not a deterrent.  Twice as many states in the top half by murder rate have the death penalty than the states in the bottom half.  And 21 of the 27 states with the death penalty voted for Trump.

[red750]

OK. You made your point. 

 

There have been 31 women killed in this country so far this year. We are about 3.75 months into the year. That means over 8 women are being murdered per month on average. Approximately 2 a week. What is your solution to solve this abominable situation?

[Marty_d]

There's no silver bullet. 

 

Start with education.  Child care is not too early to start teaching kids not to hurt each other when they want something.  All through the education system there should be ethics and philosophy incorporated in the curriculum. In fact I'd go so far as to teach kids - all kids - martial arts, because of the emphasis on having respect for yourself and others.

Also reduce access to real violence online. 

 

If you're talking about current violence,  then we need to increase funding for shelters and support services,  so people experiencing violence can leave and not have to stay in the home because they have no funds to leave. 

Court ordered distance from the victim should be enforced by ankle bracelets.  We have GPS, AI and Google maps.  It can't be that hard to geofence areas the perpetrator is barred from and alert the nearest police station if the breach them.

 

These are just some ideas from one clueless bugger at midnight.  Surely if we prioritize this, get the right experts leading it and throw enough money at it to implement their recommendations, change will slowly happen.

[nomadpete]

I would add one significant thing that is grossly lacking - specialist support for those suffering from psychological abuse. It is sadly lacking but is more effective than punisment.

 

In most reports of partner physical violence, there is a common theme. Prior ongoing psychological manipulation by one person AND ongoing denial of that by the other person. Normalised deviance by BOTH parties is what facilitates the progressive worsening of violence.

 

Laws and threats of jail or death penalty will do no good at all.

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Also reduce access to real violence online

I've been saying that for a while. Basically, there should be a complete ban on anything coming out of the USA that contains depictions of violence. That includes movies, TV shows, video games and music. We don't need to have our society polluted by what is a cancer in the US society. 

 

As for ankle bracelets, unfortunately there are not enough police on duty at any one time to deal with those alerts. What might work is something like those anti-barking collars that once were used on dogs. The ankle bracelet could be programed with a geofence, and include a device that gives the wearer a shock like a cattle prod if they crossed into the defined space. There could also be a device given to the protected person, a bit like a remote car lock thingy, that the protected person could use to shock the baddie if they kept coming.

 

I wonder how many of these domestic violence crimes are committed as a result of the offender being in drugs. I would see drug use being a reason for a young woman to end a relationship with someone who is unable to provide the expected domestic tranquility that women innately need.

[nomadpete]

3 minutes ago, old man emu said:

We don't need to have our society polluted by what is a cancer in the US society. 

Totally agree. Western society has normalised violence as a conflict resolution answer.

 

5 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I wonder how many of these domestic violence crimes are committed as a result of the offender being in drugs. I would see drug use being a reason for a young woman to end a relationship with someone who is unable to provide the expected domestic tranquility that women innately need.

I wish I could have blamed it on drugs but a cause in my cases.

 

It is more like "boiled frog" problem. Also, it takes a great deal of courage and mental strength to walk out on the one you love, when it is breaking a promise "in sickness and in health" (knowing mental health counts and knowing the perpretator needs help too). And to do it when all strength is gone and the victim is already very weak, and vulnerable. It is common for such relationships to have isolated the victim from their closest friends/relatives/ support, and they feel unable to seek the help they need.

 

It may be hard to comprehend, but domestic violence  is a (bad) outlet for the perpretator who at the time feels  totally vulnerable, disempowered. It is their desperate attempt to regain lost power.

In my opinion, a variation on "violence is the refuge of a coward".

 

Perhaps a cultural change would help to build trust in seeking help outside the relationship. Maybe growing the courage to admit the behaviour to outsiders. Society presently sees that as a weakness. It seems frowned upon generally.

[nomadpete]

Believe it or not, although my relationships were not being destroyed by alcohol, a visit to alanon helped me immensely.

 

Until then I didn't know they are a support group for abused partners of alcoholics.

 

They pointed out that trying to help the unhelpable only makes things worse - it turns the victim into the enabler - and in the end the victim is helping the perpretator to behave worse.

 

I  only went once but that realisation was the turning point for me.

 

Enough!  This was supposed to be random thoughts!

Edited April 24 by nomadpete

[old man emu]

41 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

I wish I could have blamed it on drugs but a cause in my cases.

The use of alcohol might be something that belongs to older generations, which did not have the access to stimulant drugs which seem to be the norm amongst the younger generation. Alcohol does lead to the lessening of the social inhibitions that control "normal" behaviour, and coupled with the reasons for using it as a source of mental distress relief can lead to the situations you describe. Also, alcohol eventually is a sedative.

 

However, the current drug of choice by the generation which is now in its twenties and in the early stages of relationships, is a stimulant. Coupled with the mental distresses that would cause a person to continue to use it, turns the user into an irrational, over-powerful monster. It is those people who are committing the violence.

[facthunter]

Let me thank the people who have made thoughtful , honest and difficult replies. Nev

[red750]

I was going to quote some sections of the above posts, but there are just too many.

 

Posts from a Facebook group called Feminist News have been cropping up on my Facebook screens for some time. In some respects, one could be excused for thinking that women may have brought some of this on themselves, but on the other hand, they are correct. And you could say it gets back to the marriage vows and the way we view relationships.

 

I know that sounds convoluted, but I will try and explain. The marriage vows say something to the effect that each promises to keep only to each other, foresaking all others, so long as they both shall live. Men and women both have "needs", but to a different extent. Often the man seeks to satisfy his need, but the woman says "No, it's my body, I decide what I do with it and I don't feel like it." This leaves a man hanging frustrated, particularly if this continues for a protracted period. If he insists, it is considered rape. If he seeks satisaction elsewhere, it is considered cheating. He is in the wrong either way. This frustration leads to violence in many  cases. The alternatives are to suck it up and live with it, or separate/divorce.

 

There are other comments from these women. One such comment was, "There are other alternatives. You have a hand. Do I have to spell it out?"

[facthunter]

That should give you a solution.,  Nev

[octave]

If your partner is not interested in sex then perhaps a little self-analysis might be required. If your idea of foreplay is saying "brace yourself I'm coming aboard" and if the act consists of ploughing the mrs for 3 minutes and then going to sleep then it is no wonder interest is lost. It amazes me how many men can tune a carburettor but can't locate the G spot.