The Random thought thread

[nomadpete]

[nomadpete]

The 1.5Kw unit plugs into a normal power outlet, and consumes 6Kw.

[spacesailor]

I believe ' laser ' will creat " heat  " and heat will crack a malleable iron casting .

Just a thought as I have replaced both ' cast iron  ' manifolds on my vehicle due to " hear cracking " , may-not be ' original equipment,  but passed the " road--worthy ' warranty. 

spacesailor

[old man emu]

12 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I believe ' laser ' will creat " heat  " and heat will crack a malleable iron casting .

Apparently the rise in temperature is restricted to the point where the beam hits the object. As the beam moves away the initial point cools. So you don't get the area heating that you would get if you were using a gas flame. I don't think that the temperatures involved in "burning" off crud are anywhere near the temperature of molten metals required for welding. When you watch these videos, you don't see any reddening of the surface that is indicative of high heat.

 

13 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Those high wattage units would be for industrial use. The 100W and 200W units would better suit the small workshop such as a mechanic or the more well-to-do DIYer.

 

On a Cost/Benefit basis, these units would soon pay for themselves in time savings, and consumables savings. I just paid $70 for 5 litres of Evaporust for rust removal from smaller metal bits. It's good stuff, but even lightly rusted stuff needs a couple of hours' soaking to get clean. I still have to buy paint stripper spend time cleaning the paint off before using the Evaporust. Same thing applies if I use electrolysis.

[onetrack]

And that's where citric acid wins hands down. It's cheap, simple, gets into all the crevices, if the item is either rotated or positioned so the air bubbles can get out - and it doesn't eat into the base metal.

I just picked up a 25kg bag of granular citric acid for $85, this will do all my rust removal requirements for the next 6 months at least.

 

All you need for citric acid treatment is a poly tub. Don't use an enamelled cast iron bathtub, the citric acid dissolves enamel. The size of the tub is the only limit on what you can treat for rust.

I just picked up a couple of big poly tubs from an auction for $75 each. Internally they measure 1.9M long, over a metre wide and 800mm deep, and I can acid bath large items with these.

 

[old man emu]

How long would the citric acid take to remove the rust from one of these sets of sulky springs?

 

[spacesailor]

Will you have to strip each leaf to get all the rust .

spacesailor

[pmccarthy]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

How long would the citric acid take to remove the rust from one of these sets of sulky springs?

 

Two weeks in 10% molasses and they would be bright. Cost hardly anything.

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

Two weeks in 10% molasses and they would be bright. Cost hardly anything.

The point I wanted to make was that the laser cleaner is a time saver. That would be an important consideration if cleaning parts was part of your income stream and/or you were working to a deadline.

If those factors do not apply to you or me, then any speedy cleaning system would lose out to citric acid, or vinegar or even Evapo-Rust.  I'm more inclined towards electrolysis which is a bit of an each way bet timewise.

[onetrack]

OME, those sulky springs would come up great after about 10-12 days in a citric acid bath. You pull them out after 5 or 6 days and pressure wash them, then put them back in again for a final cleanup.

 

I've just done 4 sets of Caterpillar D4 track chains in a bath in the big poly tub - along with 2 huge lathe chucks (about 20" and 24" from memory). The track chains, although new, had been stored on pallets in the open, in a marine depot alongside the ocean for several years - so they were pretty grotty.

The track chains have been in the bath since Tuesday 19th Sept, but I didn't have enough acid in the bath for the first 4 days, I added more acid on Sat 23rd Sept. They came up great today with a pressure wash and a spray with Ranex. Didn't get any photos, unfortunately, I was going like a cut cat today and wasn't stopping for photo sessions!

 

The chucks went in the bath last Saturday (the 23rd), but when I pulled them out and pressure cleaned them today, they need more time, so they went back in again. I'll give them a few more days.

 

I've got an electric start, 13.5HP Briggs & Stratton powered pressure cleaner, it puts out 4000psi, so it gets the crud off pretty well! It's on a big 4 wheel trolley with a big hose reel mounted on top, I think it's got 15M of hose - plus 5 nozzles of varying spray angles.

The pressure cleaner only cost me $150 - I bought it off some clown who had zero mechanical skills. While he was using it, the seals in the rotary coupler for the hose reel starting leaking.

But because the hose reel is mounted right over the top of the engine, the water was dripping onto the B&S fuel tank. And of course, the fuel cap is recessed, so the water got into the fuel tank, went through to the carburettor, and made a right old mess of the carby innards. The needle valve on the float jammed open, and filled the engine full of petrol!

 

The bloke didn't have a clue what to do about it, it wouldn't go when he hit the starter, so it was buggered as far as he was concerned. When I first got it, I pulled the spark plug and yanked on the rope, and about 2 litres of raw petrol came gushing out of the plug hole!

I stripped the carby down, cleaned it and rebuilt it, and sealed the fuel tank with POR-15. I decided to whip the head off while I was at it, to check the engine internals. The internals showed almost no wear.

I pulled the valves and found the exhaust valve had a bit of valve face recession, so I refaced the valve, bought a new head gasket and re-assembled it - and it went like a dream, and hasn't missed a beat since!

 

Naturally, I also fixed the leaking rotary coupler seals, there's nothing to them, just two o-rings with nylon support washers. Best little machine I've picked up in the last 5 years!

Edited September 30, 2023 by onetrack

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, onetrack said:

OME, those sulky springs would come up great after about 10-12 days in a citric acid bath.

You don't get the point I am trying to make. While I agree that your method and a laser cleaner would produce the same result, it is the time involved in completing the task. 

 

Tell me,

1.  Are you cleaning these parts as part of your income-earning activity?

2. Are you doing it simply out of the need to do something to fill in your time?

3. How frequently do you need to clean materials in similar condition?

4. What would the pressure washer cost to buy off the shelf?

 

The answers to those questions would be information that would affect one's decision to either remain with the soaking method or to purchase a bead-blaster or a laser cleaner, or to switch to electrolysis. 

[onetrack]

1. I'm cleaning parts and components for hobby restoration work, and some of the cleaning is income-producing, as I do sell a few parts and components - but it's not a big part of my life now.

2. No, I don't do things just to "fill in time". Everything I do involves a project.

3. As a restorer, I fight corrosion on a constant and daily basis, and I've refined my corrosion-repair techniques over the years. I have a workshop sandblaster for the small stuff.

4. The pressure washer originally cost around $2000 new. It's a "Global" brand, and it appears the brand and the dealer have folded up in recent times.

I've got a photo of it on my phone somewhere, but I can't find it, right at present.

 

I believe these units came from China, although the pressure pump is Italian. When I pulled the fan cowling off the Briggs & Stratton, even though it's got a Stars & Stripes flag on the engine, there was a decal inside the fan cowling that said, "Not for sale in the U.S.A."!? I got all the parts I needed from the local Mower shop, who is a B&S dealer. 

 

However, I did get right up them, when I bought a little plastic in-line fuel filter off them (it fits inside the tank, so I couldn't get it elsewhere), and they charged me $27 for it!

I left them a negative Google review and they rang me up, protesting that Briggs & Stratton set the retail pricing, and they couldn't do anything about it, except register a complaint with B&S HQ.

I told them it was total rort, especially for the size of the item - and the fact it was made in China, anyway!

 

They came back to me a couple of days later and said they'd been in touch with HQ, and they'd agreed to reduce the price to $12 - so I got a $15 refund - provided I modified my review, of course!

 

It's difficult to find a pressure cleaner that has a decent wind-up hose reel on it. I consider a wind-up hose reel a necessity. The nearest thing I can find to my B&S pressure washer today is this Honda-powered unit - and they want $4495 for it!

 

https://www.hendersonmowers.com.au/brands/bar-group-pressure-washer/pressure-washers/display/41961-bar-group-pressure-washer-honda-gx390-gearbox-drive-

 

I do also have a 240V pressure washer, it's 2000psi and it's a Husqvarna - which is made in Italy. It cost me $899 in 2020, but the price has gone up since. It's a very handy and capable pressure washer, but the engine driven one produces double the pressure.

 

https://hmc.husqvarnadealers.com.au/products/pressure-washer/9704684-02.html

 

The beauty of soaking things in an acid bath for rust removal, is you don't have to do anything else while the acid is working. You can go on with other jobs while the soaking is happening, the only effort involved is setting up the bath, dropping the items in, and then a short time pressure-washing them and spraying with some Ranex.

 

I've never tried molasses, and I don't know what a big drum of molasses is worth, or even how easily it would acquired here. Seems like disposing of the used molasses would be messy and possibly involve a disposal process that would cost money.

I simply let the water evaporate from the citric acid and dispose of the remnant solid crud in the bottom, in my industrial waste bin.

 

I have never had any success with electrolysis. Electrolysis uses chemicals, cathodes and anodes, and it produces gases, especially hydrogen, and you have to very careful you don't blow yourself up. I experienced a hydrogen explosion from an electrolysis bath - in the open air! It was quite frightening. It was set off by a spark from a power disconnection.

 

You can also produce hexavalent chromium from electrolysis, and that stuff is toxic with a Capital T. It can be produced from any chromium content in an electrolysis bath.

Citric acid, on the other hand, is a food additive, is totally safe, and doesn't attack and dissolve chrome, brass, copper, aluminium or the base iron metal.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by onetrack

[onetrack]

I finally found the photo of the Briggs & Stratton pressure washer. The wind-up handle on the hose reel is missing, I've since made a new one.

I made the fancy chrome "scabbard" for the lance - out of a section of chrome exhaust tubing! There was nowhere to store the lance when I bought the machine.

Perhaps there had been some  kind of lance storage arrangement originally, but I couldn't find any sign of it.

 

[old man emu]

In my opinion, the answers you have given indicate to me that producing income is not a primary motive for your rust removal. Threfore, it is easy to agree that in your case, expenditure on a laser cleaner would not be economically wise. However answer those questions for the operator for whom a step towards producing income and the opposite might be the wise choice.

 

However, there's one thing that we have learned over our lives is that new technology is expensive on Day 1, but a couple of years down the road it's as cheap as chips - mobile phones excepted. So maybe one day you'll cease to be a Wet and become a Laser Larry 😀

[facthunter]

On aircraft parts the only abrasive approved as far as I know is walnut shells. Aren't heads and blocks descaled by Ultrasonics? Often an alloy head has to be welded near the gasket face to be re used. Some stuff cannot be reclaimed. Scale left there will cause HOT spots and there will be perforation of diesel blocks in Particular. A resleeve will only be a short term fix.   Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have no idea of rust removal, except that I buy a spray can in the same colour of the item I am treating, which includes rust-deadener, and repaint whatever it is (some old cast iron downpiping in black, lately).

 

But in terms of making money from the business, it will depend on the business iteself. A firm that reactively remove rust from customer's things that they bring in may well have publihed timeframes; so if buying one of these things that can operate at an industrial scale will give them a competitive advantage - or they decide to market that if you need it done that day or within a couple of days instead of a couple of weeks but it's going to cost you, then yeah - it is worth the investment. But if they don't see a compeititve advantage, because, say their customers are all cost-conscious and don't mind the wait, then until the price drops, or someone else takes the lead that starts denting revenues, then they will continue.

 

Similarly, they may be removing rust on a regular basis as their business is, like OTs, into selling effectively reconditioned bits; or they may do some restorations (e.g. of cars), and need second hand parts, then time is probably not as important as cost, unless for some reason, the used marketplace for those bits is aprticularly hit. A retail business will normally stock parts on a cyclical basis, so yuo can have items in stock now ready to make you money while the next batch are enjoying their bath; hopefully as your current stock reduces, they stuff coming out of the bath will replenish it (yes, even if they are different parts; a business is looking for turnover and margin).

 

What I can see, assuiiming these things are reliable and industrial is a mobile rust removal business; where service providers rock up in their van with one or two of these, and any adaptations required and can remove rus there an then on the items, whether they are protable and could be bought into the shop, or they may be larger and awkward to move...

 

Also, what we don't know is how long the laser itself can function before it overheats, and how long those battery packls last between charges. I took a look on ebay and there are plenty that are well north of $20k, more like $35k -40K, and i am thinking they may be more suitable for industrial applications?

 

 

And, as Nev says, it may depend on the nature of the metal and the use; you may not have a chice.

[red750]

How's this for bad parking. Not only is he partly on the pedestrian crossing, but he is also in a disabled parking spot with no permit displayed. When he returned to the car, it was an Asian male. If you watch Highway Patrol on the TV, you wonder how these people got a licence.

 

[onetrack]

They pay their Asian Learner Driver School instructors to fill in forms for them - and they've been known to bribe licence testers.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I was driving home a few years ago and coming towards me, on the wrong side of the road, was a negro woman driving a car. I wondered how she got her license but i was told that it would be racist to fail her.

So of course she passed.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I'm hoping forlornly that there will be less of this following a big "NO" vote.

[spacesailor]

Yesterday  !. 

There was a car smash In  Fitzwilliam road 

They crashed their little ' hatchback ' into a power-pole ' , two dead & 72 yo driver in hospital.  The 75 yo male was a front seat passenger , while the female 100 yo was in the back seats .

" as reported " .

spacesailor

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by spacesailor
A little more !

[Jerry_Atrick]

7 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I was driving home a few years ago and coming towards me, on the wrong side of the road, was a negro woman driving a car. I wondered how she got her license but i was told that it would be racist to fail her.

So of course she passed.

Interested to know who told you it would be racist to fail her. May be racist to not accept her bribe when accpeting others, but to fail someone that can't drive doesn't sound racist to me.

[spacesailor]

I heard a similar story ' yonks ' ago . were Non English speaking emigrants were ' passed ' just because the examiner couldn't understand the gibberish . 

spacesailor

[octave]

37 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I heard a similar story ' yonks ' ago . were Non English speaking emigrants were ' passed ' just because the examiner couldn't understand the gibberish . 

spacesailor

 

Sounds like a myth to me. 

 

https://www.youngdriverfactbase.com/the-issues/ethnicity/

[facthunter]

Spacey won't give it a myth.   Nev