No bull - no bullbar

[old man emu]

When driving through rural areas during the day, what is the probability of hitting livestock or a large native animal? Those of you with hundreds of thousands of rural driving kilometres on your odometers, count up the number of these incidents you have had. I reckon that over my lifetime I clocked up enough Ks. In that time I've hit a couple of birds that were slow to get airborne, and I had one emu that was running beside me do a sharp left hand turn into my driver's side door. Why then would I need a bullbar?

 

I see lots of grey nomads and 4 x 4 weekend bush bashers on the roads around my place and as I travel around the countryside. The majority are pushing aftermarket bullbars in front of them. Note that these bullbars are not produced by the manufacturers of the vehicle. Why is that? What a great income source they are missing out on.

 

The reason is that a bullbar negates the benefits of the passive safety features the manufacturers have designed and installed to protect the occupants. A bullbar can also adversely affect the way air flows through the elements of the cooling system, resulting in excessive temperatures in the combustion chambers of the engine with resultant damage to piston initially, then maybe other components damaged as the piston disintegrates.

 

I am going to claim a modicum of professional expertise in relation to the effects of impacts on vehicle occupants through the alteration of the vehicle's designed impact response. I am producing for your information two videos. One deals with the impact response of vehicles fitted with an aftermarket bullbar, and the other with the effects of bullbar design on the longevity off an engine. The presenter may annoy you, but the material presented is sound.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oHDJc5LFNY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9TpBBVjAXk&t=25s

[Old Koreelah]

Well done, OME.  Science doesn’t lie: our vehicles are safer without bullbars, but it would take a brave government to phase them out in Australia.
Plenty of people I know seem to plough into roos on a regular basis; a bit less speed might be the answer, but they have greater time pressures than I do.

In fifty-odd years of using rural roads, I’ve hit only two roos- one each on bike and car. These days I drive to the conditions and do without bullbars, even though it seems there are heaps more roos about.

 

Interestingly, I saw no bullbars on cars or even big trucks in our trip down through the Canadian Rockies.

 

Fishing rod holders should be banned outright- the common ones are a dumb design, very likely to disembowel a pedestrian.

 

[nomadpete]

I calculate that I have roughly 2.5 million kilometres of driving experience overall. Probably at least 1/3 of that on gravel/remote roads.

I do not have a bull bar. In the worst case I have driven some roads where I had to slow down to walking pace to avoid the hundreds of Skippys.

However, I have hit one sheep, one emu, and one small wallaby - all whilst driving a commodore. The impacts were very minor - no repair needed.

I did hit a calf whilst driving a borrowed land cruiser which did have a bull bar- the bull bar damaged the bonnet and guards significantly. Not sure if the bull bar helped or not.

I have a number of friends who insist on fitting bullbars, they consider it negligent to allow their wife to drive a car that doesn't have a bull bar.

 

PS. just remembered, I have hit one wayward roo - in a company commodore. No bullbar, car still drivable.

 

Also, many 4wd's need a suspension  upgrade to compensate for the added weight of a bullbar.

Edited September 24, 2023 by nomadpete

[facthunter]

The later ones appear to be of Aluminium and very well made. I suggest some of the crush zones would still work because the bull bar is attached forward of them.  Extra lights are often mounted on them and winches and no  sharp edges at the extremes. Nev

[octave]

We lived on a rural property between 1990 and 2011. Our place was precisely 100km from our workplace in Canberra.   We would finish work at 8 PM and then drive along the King's Highway (one of Australia's more dangerous roads)   5 nights a week this was about 40000Km a year and around half of this was done in the dark.  I can only remember hitting one kangaroo with enough force to damage the car and that was only minor damage to the plastic.  A roo did once hop into the side of our car.

 

Some of our neighbours (the ones with the rouge necks)  thought we were quite mad for not attaching a load of metal to the front of our car.  They would also seemingly brag about how many roos a week they hit.   I put our good fortune down to knowing the road extremely well and knowing where we were likely to encounter wildlife.

 

But the most important tactic was simply to drive at an appropriate speed at those times when we were likely to encounter wildlife.   This is not a 100% guarantee of not hitting anything but it does reduce the chances and reduces the damage if you do hit something.   

[Jerry_Atrick]

I used to do a lot of country driving out of Melburne on the Princes, Hume, Calder, Western, and Newell (Hum --> Golbourn Valley --> Newell) highways. I recall coming close hitting a roo once, when returning home form a weekend at Marysville. I don't ever recall coming close to hitting livestock, though I know of someone who was brain damaged as a result of a collision with a bull. I was also an avid 4x4'er, often going away with groups. Most of us had bars fitted out of fear of head on collisions with other cars than animals.

 

I can't think of seeing anything but nudge bars over here and I guessed they must be illegal. As far as I can tell, they are virtually illegal because they must not pose additional risk to passengers, pedestians, and other road users, according to this article: https://mocktheorytest.com/resources/are-bull-bars-legal-in-the-uk/

 

In my almost weekly round-trip commute to London over the last 8 years, I have had to swerve hard for a stunned deer once, and slow down for another once.

 

Alas, when I was younger and purchased a 4x4, I wouldn't be without one, out of ignorance and to be honest, being a bit macho, although my last two 4x4s in Aus - a HJ60 Cruisert and Feroza did not have one. These days, I doubt I would even buy a 4x4 (yes, I have has an XC90 for 9 years now, and it is very handy for carrying loads, like the carpet I ripped out of the study yesterday to the tip; but a cheap van would do better).

 

Here are two vids about Bullbars - mind you he doesn't always get things right, but he has the courage to make full videos correcting what he has previously got wrong:

 

 

And then there is the potential for problems when things go wrong.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

Most serious  4WD ers would not accept one of those woosey soft alloy bars. And if a winch is fitted, springs are generally  reset to restore ride height. But as I said, I don't see the point in having a bull bar.

[pmccarthy]

I have hit two Roos and an emu in 54 years of driving. Never had a roo bar and never would for the good reasons given by OME.

[spacesailor]

Personal experience  ,

Only hit roos on one trip . I hit one at the start .'  Good bullbar ' ,so checked it's pouch, & that it was deceased. 

Between Gundawindi & Mitchell Queensland.  No problems , Birdsville, down that Birdsville track , to Lyndhurst, And back up the 

Strzelecki track,  to Cameron's Corner ,back to Burke were that evening , we had a mob of Kangaroos jump into the gleam of our headlights. 

Pushed that ' roobar back into the bonnet and the two mudguards,  knocked us off the road into a tree ' backwards ' damaging the rear door.

BUT THAT ' ROOBAR 'did it's work , and we drove on " unhappily " . Lucky was only doing 80 in a 120 kph area of Mitchell highway .

spacesailor

 

 

[onetrack]

I've covered probably around 2.5M kays over 59 years of driving (I started driving at 16 without a licence, in a rural area!). The vast majority of my driving was on remote Goldfields and rural gravel roads and country highways.

I've hit a fair few 'roos over the years - but mostly late at night, and mostly on moonlit nights, and after rain - which is when 'roos are more active. The 'roos like to snack on the green shoots by the road shoulders.

I used to have bullbars fitted as standard to all my vehicles - both my vehicle and employees work vehicles. They saved me a heap of money and reduced vehicle damage considerably, over the years.

 

But then came airbags, safety equipment galore, sensors, and multiple electronics around the front of vehicles. The bullbar manufacturers have developed new bullbars that work in with all these new safety features.

However, I went away from bullbars probably about 20 years ago, when I started spending less time in rural and remote areas. I've returned to an increased degree of rural driving in the last 4-5 years - but my current 2013 Hilux is not fitted with a bullbar. I've toyed with the idea of fitting one again, but it seems that the 'roos are becoming more educated, or their numbers are down. I do see 'roo carcasses nearly every day, but they seem to be mostly hit by big trucks, late at night.

 

I don't have much time for Cadogan, with his smart mouth, "clever" sayings (well, clever to him, anyway) and his patronising BS, he really gets on my nerves and I find I have to switch him off after a few minutes.

It's like listening to Trump, just a real know-it-all. Bullbar manufacturers still sell plenty of their products, and I see plenty on 4WD's that have had a workout on livestock. It's not just 'roos, it's sheep on the loose as well, and even the odd straying horse or cow! I hit a big dog once, it had been out savaging sheep and was making a run back home in town, and I clobbered it in the early morning as it darted out from behind heavy scrub. It did a lot of damage to a ute that I didn't have a bullbar on!

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

I don't have much time for Cadogan,

I don't sing the praises of the man, but what he says in both those videos is worth listening to and taking into consideration. He does make the point that while a bullbar might prevent some minor damage from an impact with an animal, if the vehicle is involved in a collision with something more massive, all the passive safety features that the manufacturer built into the vehicle are for nought.

 

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

The bullbar manufacturers have developed new bullbars that work in with all these new safety features.

My point is that if bullbars were a positive addition to a vehicle, the manufacturers would have them on their accessories list to make more money on each sale. 

[onetrack]

Quote

My point is that if bullbars were a positive addition to a vehicle, the manufacturers would have them on their accessories list to make more money on each sale. 

Well, you can get "genuine" Toyota bullbars from Toyota dealers, so they must have manufacturer approval.

 

I think all these bars are locally designed and manufactured by independent shops, but they sell them through Toyota dealerships, once factory approval is gained.

 

https://www.toyota.com.au/accessories/guides/bull-bars-or-nudge-bars#:~:text=Toyota Genuine Bull Bars help,the front of your vehicle.

[old man emu]

 

8 hours ago, onetrack said:

you can get "genuine" Toyota bullbars from Toyota dealers

 

As I said, if the bullbar is a manufacturer-approved item, then I would say that it is not in the "after-market" class.

 

This is what Toyota says about their bull and nudge bars:

Toyota Genuine Bull Bars and Nudge Bars are designed and engineered alongside Toyota vehicles. During this process the vehicle and the bar are considered one system. This full integration into the vehicle’s architecture means each bar is properly evaluated for crash performance, including airbag deployment. Genuine Bull and Nudge Bars are designed to work and integrate cohesively with a vehicle’s Toyota Safety Sense active features. Everything, down to the front grille’s air intake and vehicle's axle capacity, is taken into account.

 

Clearly, that answers all the problems that Cadogan raised, but only for one manufacturer. The problems still exist for the owners of the vehicles of every other manufacturer.

[nomadpete]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

Well, you can get "genuine" Toyota bullbars from Toyota dealers, so they must have manufacturer approval.

That is a risky assumption.

Case in point....

A near new Triton twin cab towing a camper trailer on Bruce Highway. All weights well within spec. Owner discovered the chassis bent behind the cab. Mitsubishi  denied warranty claim on grounds of 'modified from original'.

Vehicle was purchased new with airbag suspension. Mod was fitted by dealer, was assumed to be factory authorised.

 

There were others similar.

[nomadpete]

I would want that manufacturer approval in writing, and it would have to be written in legalese before I would believe it.

 

Makes me wonder now, about my dealer fitted tray back.

[Old Koreelah]

32 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

…Makes me wonder now, about my dealer fitted tray back.

They’re not held on by much. A recent prang we attended resulted in a new Hilux being separated from its trayback by 70+ metres.

[spacesailor]

One thing " good " about that " roobar " . hit a medium sized object , With a standard vehicle , and chances are very high the radiator gets pushed back into the cooling fan .

So no  coolant , you won't get home .

No worries on those ' rural dirt ' roads , someone will offer to tow you somewhere! .

IF ANYONE IS PASSING ,  that particular area , at that needed time .

AND , YOU ARE NOT DOWN IN THE BUSH , out of site . ( as in my case ( knocked off the road into a tree .)) .

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

If the motor no go, how do you steer and stop it? Nev

[Old Koreelah]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

If the motor no go, how do you steer and stop it? Nev

Good point, Nev. Some modern cars are almost unsteerable at slow speed without power steering. I’ve twice had that rude awakening. A broken belt will do it.

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, nomadpete said:

near new Triton twin cab

There's where the problem lies. Mitsubishi do not sell bull bars. It would have to be an aftermarket item and therefore fitting it voids the warranty due to its being an unapproved modification. Not so with the Toyota ones as it is Toyota who is making them available. You'll note in the video about the $20,000 blown engine case that the vehicle was a Mitsu.

[spenaroo]

I dont have one,

 

was going to put one on the Amarok - but Volkswagen are notorious about warranty being denied with them fitted.
think the ARB is the only bar they approve. - but even then its questionable on suspension components, so unless dealer fitted.....

anyway now its out of warranty I cant justify the cost. 4K on a 40k car is a lot easier to stomach, then 4k on a 20k car.

plus I drove my bosses - and it was horrible with that extra weight, really messed up the balance. could really feel the difference when changing direction.

not the best for a car that lives in the city

 

already had the front end replaced when I rear-ended a car in front. think the old man had his front replaced after hitting a roo,
both all sorted under insurance - easy as these days. I see the value in farm use and serious off-roading. but worse I do is a fire track.

[willedoo]

I've never hit a pig but have been told they tend to go under the vehicle and can cause a bit of damage there. Bull bars are ok if you hit a roo head on, but a lot of them come bounding out of the dark and hit side panels. I heard of one that crashed through the rear door window and ended up in the back seat, injured badly but still alive and kicking. A mate of mine had one hit the drivers side door. He had the window down and the roo's head came into the cab right in front of the mate's face until it recoiled back out again. He said the fright nearly gave him a heart attack. That was driving slow on a property.

[old man emu]

38 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

I see the value in farm use and serious off-roading.

But those are low speed driving scenarios. You should be able to stop before hitting anything. For those situations, I'd go for a underbody skid plate before anything else.

 

40 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

even then its questionable on suspension components, plus I drove my bosses - and it was horrible with that extra weight, really messed up the balance. could really feel the difference when changing direction.

Don't you think that the highly qualified mechanical engineers, whose abilities are enhanced by 125 years' of automobile design, might have considered the effects of weight on the balance and handling of the Amarok? Just think of the weight and balance considerations you have to make in changing from a wooden propeller to a metal one on your puddle jumper. Your Amarok might fly down the highway, but it won't corner as designed if there's extra weight over the steering wheels. 

 

Also, your engine is designed to produce a certain amount of power, which is used to do Work. The amount of Work done can e calculated using the formula W = Force x distance, which has the variables mass, distance and the constant, acceleration, giving W = m.a.d. If the engine needs to produce K units of power to move a mass a stated distance, then if you increase the mass, more units of power are required. The power comes ultimately from the chemical energy of teh fuel. So if you need more energy to move a mass the same distance, your fuel costs go up. And that is not taking into account the deterioration in the vehicle's Coefficient of Drad in relation to the atmosphere.

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, willedoo said:

I've never hit a pig but have been told they tend to go under the vehicle and can cause a bit of damage there

In most of the Eastern States, feral pigs are rare compared to wombats. Those little buggers can launch a car like a kid in a skateboard ramp. The worst part is that they come out onto highways at night; are hard to see because they are small and dark, and cars are travelling around 100 kph. And they don't seem to splatter like roos.

[facthunter]

A lot of those utes have quite weak section chassis behind the cab and it's not unusual to bend them there when towing a large van down a small drop to a river. Nev