Housing Shortage

[old man emu]

This pornographic red herring having reached a climax, we now return to the topic of the thread.

 

Airds, Claymore and Minto are three suburbs within the city of Campbelltown, NSW. In the 1970s the NSW Government's Dept of Housing wanted to clear residents from the dilapidated areas of inner Sydney, so it built public housing estates in these suburbs which were at the time areas of small poultry or dairy farms. In its wisdom it sited Airds and Claymore about 2.5 kms from Campbelltown CBD. At the time there was no public transport in the form of bus routes, and both suburbs are located beyond the ridges of the valley that Campbelltown CBD occupies.

 

The estates were designed according to a system known as the Radburn system. The design is typified by the backyards of homes facing the street and the fronts of homes facing one another, over common yards.

 

It is often referred to as an urban design experiment that is typified by failure because of its laneways being used as common entries and exits to the houses, helping to isolate communities and to encourage crime. When interviewed in 1998, the architect responsible for introducing the design to public housing in New South Wales, Australia, Philip Cox, was reported to have admitted with regard to a Radburn-designed estate in the suburb of Villawood, NSW: "Everything that could go wrong in a society went wrong.... It became the centre of drugs, it became the centre of violence and, eventually, the police refused to go into it. It was hell." I policed Airds and Claymore in the mid 1990s, and the policing was more an attempt to keep crime, drug use and domestic violence from escalating above the previous reporting period's figures. By the time I worked there, it was the children of the first 1970 residents who were coming of age in a society whose culture was funded by social security payments and low education levels. Even the clothing of the residents was a marker of where they lived. Now in 2023, it is the the children of the third generation who live there. At present 80% of the remaining housing is "social housing"

 

The Radburn concept does work, and makes for very nice communities. However, it only works if the residences are owner-occupied. It is the owners' equity in the residences that keeps the gardens tidy and the streets free of discarded cheap furniture, broken toys and burnt-out cars. Owners who have equity in a property as also people who are employed and through that have Hope. Build a place where residents rent from a faceless bureaucracy who parsimony keeps the toilet blocked and the window broken, and you will create the Hell on Earth that exists in Airds, Claymore and Minto.

 

But hark! What light upon the window breaks?

 

'Tis the glow of the bulldozer's smoke belching exhaust stace as it knocks apart those mis-aligned dwellings. The Government is redeveloping those suburbs. the blocks are being sold and building caveats will require each new dwelling shares no wall with its neighbour. But how will the displaced residents buy a residence in the place they grew? Very many are in rent arrears as it is. 

 

"Hey, you houso from Airds. With your tatts and in your flanno, Quo vadis?"

 

 

[nomadpete]

44 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Probably living at taxpayer's expense in Bluestone College.  Nev

So, what was criminal about his pocket money enterprise?

[facthunter]

They'd find something Under 18 or such.  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

In South Australia, they ( the govt, led by a right-wing extremist guy called John Ohlsen) sold off the old housing trust houses for as little as $30,000 each. Then there was a terrible shortage of assisted houses, so they introduced priorities. You had to be a single parent with a drug problem and on parole to get a house. So these houses became part of  areas where people were rightfully  afraid of getting murdered by their neighbors. The "bodies in the barrels" cases came from this sort of place.

I dunno what has happened lately, I hope somebody will tell me things are better now.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Bruce Tuncks

[Bruce Tuncks]

It may actually have been $3,000 ...gosh, I don't remember yet I really owned one.

[spacesailor]

That ' state house sell off ' was a farce. 

If you wrecked your house you could buy it ! ..

As it was costing money for council to maintain it .

On the other hand , when you looked after & were proud & happy to do small maintenance 

Problems yourself  . You would Never be offered  that ' house sale ' .

spacesailor

 

[red750]

I mentioned earlier the Vic governments plans to implement an unused land tax. I don't know what the owner of this block would pay. It's not on the market, and there is no estimated value. There has not been a house on the block for at least 10 years, possibly longer. It's about 500 metres from my place.

 

 

My block is 33m x 15m.

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Lake McQuarry council has targeted a widow , who inherited her husbands estate & when she decided to keep it , the council put the ' rateable ' value up, to force her to sell a parcel of land every couple of years . ( just to pay those rates )

Not just councils , but ' water ' also , empty land with NO water or sewerage is still charged as if it was connected . the owner was also charged for '' excess '' water usage , on the adjacent block they owned .  ( Greystanes NSW ) .

I could put in that house & empty block ' street & number ' . ( $ 3,000 connection fee. ).

spacesailor

 

 

[red750]

Used to live in Greystanes, the first house I owned.

[facthunter]

They apply rates in a way that discourages sitting on empty land. That would be a deliberate policy decision. Not unusual.  Nev

[willedoo]

On 09/11/2023 at 6:50 PM, red750 said:

I mentioned earlier the Vic governments plans to implement an unused land tax. I don't know what the owner of this block would pay. It's not on the market, and there is no estimated value. There has not been a house on the block for at least 10 years, possibly longer. It's about 500 metres from my place.

 

 

My block is 33m x 15m.

 

 

 

That large vacant block reminds me of one that was in Toowoomba, Qld., until recent times. It was right in the middle of a normal city suburb and had an old Queenslander, a shed, cattle yards and a few cows. It must have been originally an outlying farm that was swallowed up by urban expansion. I guess it was down to about 3/4 acre in size. The old bloke must have eventually died or sold out as it's been cut up and built on in the last few years.

[Bruce Tuncks]

They could replace thousands of accountants and lawyers with a land tax, if this replaced all other taxes. The law could fit onto a single sheet of paper.

[facthunter]

AW, C'mon. We've paid for the thing with after tax MONEY and also a lot of interest and then we have to effectively rent it again. We are already funding the Local Sheltered Workshop (the Council) who robs us blind at every opportunity.  Nev.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

We are already funding the Local Sheltered Workshop (the Council) who robs us blind at every opportunity. 

It's not robbery. Councils have to chare rates and put fees on all sorts of things. If they didn't, you'd never get those really important things - multicultural events.

[Jerry_Atrick]

On 26/10/2023 at 11:09 PM, old man emu said:

 

 

Jeepers! I led a sheltered child and adulthood.

[Jerry_Atrick]

On 09/11/2023 at 8:50 AM, red750 said:

I mentioned earlier the Vic governments plans to implement an unused land tax. I don't know what the owner of this block would pay. It's not on the market, and there is no estimated value. There has not been a house on the block for at least 10 years, possibly longer. It's about 500 metres from my place.

 

 

My block is 33m x 15m.

 

 

 

Is this land banking? I doubt it. I am all for land banking tax, but I remember when I was a kid there was the odd empty block and they made great playgrounds and a break from the monotony  of the same dull brick homes. I know there are fdar more parks in establioshed burbs than when I was a kid, but I would not begrudge anyone for leaving a block like that unused.

[red750]

Not a playground Jerry. Here's the fence and gate. Note blue plastic coated chain on gate.

 

[spacesailor]

Not so long ago the ' CBC ' were complaining of Lack of tenants .

What a simple solution to this housing problem .

Like '' oshckosh '' , unused university dorms are rented out .

unused office space can & should be ' rented-out ' .  ( simple ' shop-fitting ' to make bedrooms ) .

 

Simple's

spacesailor

[spacesailor]

ON another side ! .

a second ' virus incubator ' ship has Offloaded our second wave of ' wue-flue ' .

And like that first ship will depart to earn more money , leaving South-Australia to foot the bill .

BUT

That empty ship could ' AND SHOULD BE A QUARANTINE VESSEL '.

Were is our '' international Maritime Law '' that allows vessels to offload infected passengers to the cost Australia .

OOPS

This is a ' rant ' . sorry      ( but they ( the ship ) have lots of empty cabins to house sick people )).

spacesailor

 

 

[red750]

Another construction company went into liquidation today. They specialised in home renovations, leaving hundreds with unfinished jobs.

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, red750 said:

Another construction company went into liquidation today. They specialised in home renovations, leaving hundreds with unfinished jobs.

How did you know that I went to the pub this afternoon?

[nomadpete]

An ABC opinion piece:

 

"The uncomfortable truth about record high immigration levels, rents and inflation"

 

At last somebody has become brave enough to say it out loud.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-21/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-immigration-rents-inflation/103128424

[Jerry_Atrick]

The numbers don't lie, and the correlation is intuitive; Yes, it has to be discussed. However, we need to look behind the numbers. And apart from a projected 600K this year, the article was lacking in numbers a bit. What is the number of dwellings required to house immigrants? In other words, what is the median number of people per household of these  to-be 600,000? Is it 2 per household? 3 per household? etc. The number of social housing dwellings required now is said to be 700,000.. what percentage of that is made up of immigrants?

 

Record high immigration - is it a blip after the lockdowns and pandemics - clearing the backlog so to speak, or will it be sustained?  What percentage are refugees versus normal immigrants. Over here, the refugees are being pilloried as the bain of our immigration issues, yet they make up 2% of immigrants.

 

Also, what impact has Covid had on the behaviour of people? I read an article that one of the key drivers of the housing crisis is that people no longer want to share a place and more people learned they were comfortable living alone. There has been a decrease in the median number of people per household - what is the marginal impact of this against the marginal impact of immigration? Do we need to get people living in sin again as well.

 

To say record migration levels at a time when there is a rental squeeze and soaring property prices is not going to have an impact is ignorant. I agree, but is it even a significant driver, or do we also have to start encouraging different lifestyle choices, and as the author suggests, not necessarily follow the advice of the IMF?

 

Start with Vic.. Does it really need the billions on a rail link to the airport, or would the money be better spent on other infrastructure more necessary to every day life?

[old man emu]

I'll try to avoid the specificity of the term "racism", but what is developing is an "them and us" conflict between the Australian born (and in this I include the children of the late 20th Century refugee immigrants like the South-east Asians and Middle Easterners) and those peri-COVID immigrants, especially from China and India.

 

Post-WWII we did receive a lot of immigrants, and they were European so they melted into the crowds. However, those numbers were not overwhelming and very many were actively involved in infrastructure expansion. At that time there was not migration from the non-European world. Admittedly, our racist White Australia policy had much to do with that. Now it seems that Australia's borders have been thrown open like the doors to a Myers department store on Boxing Day and the hordes have flooded in. Unfortunately these most recent immigrants stand out in the crowd from which they add to the impression of an invasion. Added to those numbers are the temporary immigrants on Student Visas, which is an area that need to go under the microscope.

 

Do we really have the numbers of educational facilities that these numbers would require? And what specialist education can be best obtained in Australia? I know from personal experience of a Vietnamese woman of 38 years of age who has applied for a Student Visa in order to become literate and verbal in English. Actually, she arrived on a Tourist Visa and made the application for the Student Visa in order to be allowed to work while "studying". What work does she do? She "love you, long time".

 

In some ways we have shot ourselves in the foot with our requirements for residential estates. Sealed roads, kerb & guttering, underground energy distribution and sewerage are demanded of real estate developers now. I grew up in a post-WWII Sydney suburb where the road wasn't sealed until the late 60s and kerb & guttering installed well into the 70s. Dan, Dan the Sanny Man was a regular visitor well into the late 60s. Nowadays the installation of all these adds tens of thousands of dollars to the price of a postage stamp-sized house block. 

 

Another factor in the cost of housing is simply supply and demand. The demand is high, but lack of production and collapse of shipping due to COVID has not alleviated supply, so prices go up. And it is not only in Australia. The price of timber products in the USA rose steeply during  and post-COVID due mainly to reduced production caused by a sickened workforce not attending its jobs.

 

 

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Over here, the refugees are being pilloried as the bain of our immigration issues, yet they make up 2% of immigrants.

The article doesn't do this at all.

2 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Record high immigration - is it a blip

Maybe slightly- I recall numbers over 400k in the past. Even at say 500k pa that's 5 million every 10 years - around 20% population increase requiring 20% more infrastructure to be constructed, as well as that percentage of extra housing. Over and above what is needed to catch up with present backlogs.

 

And it is a big stretch to blame the housing shortage upon covid!

 

The point is that the rate of population increase is not a marginal influence on house prices.

 

The price is high because the demand is high.

 

The demand is high because the population increase outstrips the building industry's  ability to build houses.

 

The population increase is mainly due to new residents arriving in the country. Natural procreation rate is marginal.