Housing Shortage

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Start with Vic.. Does it really need the billions on a rail link to the airport, or would the money be better spent on other infrastructure more necessary to every day life?

Why is it up to the government to provide housing?

The rental squeeze of which you speak, is a result the old supply vs demand equation.

 

And probably exacerbated by governments making the ownership of rental properties too difficult - resulting in a swing of landlords toward short term rental business model where the landlord has greater control over their property investment.

[facthunter]

Land availability is a key issue and these days that means water supply, Drainage, sewerage High Tension wires , sub stations transformers and Under ground Power, kerb and guttering and sealed roads, arterial roads and Rail stations and lines. Provision of parks and Lakes. NO SMALL EFFORT. you would have to agree and it ALL has to be paid for.  Nev

[spenaroo]

because government controls immigration and infrastructure and permits to build,
no point talking about supply and demand - if you cant alter the supply because there is no infrastructure in place to support new approvals of builds.

and the idea is the 600,000 migrants need a place to stay - and they are far more likely to rent then buy when establishing themselves.

 

I too agree that the Student Visa is at best a backdoor practice for immigration, and at worst an rort on importing vulnerable.
dated a few girls on it - they had lots of stress.
you are meant to self fund it - rarely do they have the savings too, need to work part-time.
but then they are limited to hours and pay - often low paying as normal employer's don't want the headache and uncertainty that comes from the limitations.

funnily enough its almost a pyramid scheme - as the last girl I dated with it, could only find work with a visa agency, that's business was to get more foreign students in....

 

 

[nomadpete]

OME the details of your younger days sound a lot like mine.

 

Except that where I grew up  the percentage of foreign migrants was at least 50%.

To me although I later became aware that there were some locals making noise about 'they steal our jobs', to me they were just the people around me. And some of the parents were difficult to understand.

 

And home unaffordability was common to everyone back then. A lot of people were struggling to meet the rent / mortgage (about 3% at the time). I never saw a vacant house, either.

 

And when I first left home the place I could afford to rent needed a coat of paint inside so I bought paint and painted it. And when I left it was better than when I moved in because otherwise we had no hope of getting the bond back.

 

This was all expected at the lower end of the rental market.

Current rental laws require the landlord to pay for periodic tests of smoke alarms and RCD's.  I don't  mind this but tenants complain when the rent goes up to pay for it. Landlords are expected to pay for such things as removal of mould and repainting of ceilings when there was no mould there until 3 months into the lease. This happened to me on two occasions in my two rentals. Each of these properties I had lived in for over 3 months without any signs of mould. But the bills were mounting and agent and tenant were complaining. So I visited one tenant and she was surprised to learn that opening the window stopped the condensation from dripping off the ceiling when she showered (no I didn't  watch).

Tenants frequently  have no idea how to look after a home, which translates to higher running costs - which drives rent up.

And drives landlords away too.

[nomadpete]

Agree that supply of land is an issue.

We should get over the old concept of everyone expecting their own plot of dirt for their own stand alone home. Once it was possible but logistics do not stack up when the population  grows. The resultant urban sprawl is a destructive waste of agricultural land and at the same time spreads the population out so much that multiple cars per home is essential.

 

Eg: 80% of the fruit and veg sold at Paddy's Markets (Sydney) used to come from what is now the western suburbs.

 

Like it or not, higher density housing is much more practical. Less commuting time, less pollution. It works in most countries.

 

[spenaroo]

yeah, but that also requires decent transportation options...

we have cars. we bought into the American way of life.
 

As a 32yr old single male I only need a 1 bedroom unit or apartment.
2 bedroom ideal for study/spare/storage room.

however my lifestyle is vehicle centric. and parking is a major concern.
these just don't offer the spots I need. admittedly this is selfish because I have so many vehicles.
currently looking at alternative storage options when I lose my current place with garage.
(super rare in this market, was the reason I got this property - most at best are covered carport style parking)
 

but the same applies for a new couple - with 2 cars.
which are needed to get around our cities. but these were all built with only 1 car space....
best case scenario is that there is a retired elderly person in the building who gave up driving you can rent an extra space from.

[spacesailor]

Concentrated apartment building's !.

Just like those prewar " Warsaw Ghettos " of Poland.  Or " Hells Kitchen " NY State .

Too many people concentrated in too small an area Is bad for their health .

I only ' tried ' living in a " flat " once . Never again .

spacesailor

[red750]

There are a lot of multi storey blocks of homes and home units being built around major rail stations around Melbourne. These three are in my area, but doubtless it is happening in other aresas.

 

Box Hill.

 

 

Glen Waverley.

 

 

Ringwood.

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

I've lived in such places for a few months. It's great not having to use a car and they are a significant expense and worry over a lifetime. It makes a lot of sense to have these facilities near a railway station where they can have 24 Hour  food  be out of the weather etc and have more security.  Nev

[onetrack]

Two of the major problems causing the housing shortage are the tax laws associated with owning a home and the level of monetary "investment" being ploughed into residential properties.

 

The tax laws need to be upgraded to put a value limit on a "home" so that people can't pour $3M or $5m into a "home" that's essentially a big tax dodge.

 

And the amount of "investment" money being poured into housing from overseas (mostly Asia) which has dubious origins, is a major concern.

Make $5M or $50M from corruption in your scabby, corrupt country, then plough it into "100% safe" residential housing investment in Australia - and then cut out the young people from being able to buy their first home.

 

I am absolutely staggered at the pace of investment in housing locally. Just a few short years ago, it took 30-60 days to sell a house, once it was listed.

Today, I rarely see ANY house last more than 2 days on the market - it's frightening to see. I wonder how many are being sold for above asking money, without even being listed.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by onetrack

[old man emu]

One big problem that I observed whilst living and working around Camden was that, as the housing development occurred and more and more people with no historic ties to the area moved in, the community feel changed. Sure the kids' sporting clubs helped to create little networks of people with at least one common interest, but leave the playing fields and go to the shopping centre and you entered a world of anonymity. There is no community spirit.Few know their neighbours names.The only way to get the residents of a street out and talking is to set one of the houses on fire.

[red750]

As an indication of the ethnic make-up in our area, Asian grocery stores outnumber Coles and Woolies combined. These ones are within a 3 km radius from my place. There is another just opened, within 75 metres of the Kai Tak store.

 

[spenaroo]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Two of the major problems causing the housing shortage are the tax laws associated with owning a home and the level of monetary "investment" being ploughed into residential properties.

 

The tax laws need to be upgraded to put a value limit on a "home" so that people can't pour $3M or $5m into a "home" that's essentially a big tax dodge.

 

And the amount of "investment" money being poured into housing from overseas (mostly Asia) which has dubious origins, is a major concern.

Make $5M or $50M from corruption in your scabby, corrupt country, then plough it into "100% safe" residential housing investment in Australia - and then cut out the young people from being able to buy their first home.

 

I am absolutely staggered at the pace of investment in housing locally. Just a few short years ago, it took 30-60 days to sell a house, once it was listed.

Today, I rarely see ANY house last more than 2 days on the market - it's frightening to see. I wonder how many are being sold for above asking money, without even being listed.

 

yeah, we have the worst money laundering laws.
and its not going to change anytime soon with the real estate and accountants lobbying the government against any changes. because they don't want the liability and extra costs for checking.... which we all know they would just pass along anyway.

Does make you wonder why we have no foreign ownership laws.... unlike the countries that a lot o this spending is from

[spenaroo]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Two of the major problems causing the housing shortage are the tax laws associated with owning a home and the level of monetary "investment" being ploughed into residential properties.

 

The tax laws need to be upgraded to put a value limit on a "home" so that people can't pour $3M or $5m into a "home" that's essentially a big tax dodge.

 

And the amount of "investment" money being poured into housing from overseas (mostly Asia) which has dubious origins, is a major concern.

Make $5M or $50M from corruption in your scabby, corrupt country, then plough it into "100% safe" residential housing investment in Australia - and then cut out the young people from being able to buy their first home.

 

I am absolutely staggered at the pace of investment in housing locally. Just a few short years ago, it took 30-60 days to sell a house, once it was listed.

Today, I rarely see ANY house last more than 2 days on the market - it's frightening to see. I wonder how many are being sold for above asking money, without even being listed.

 

I can tell you lots.
I'm currently dealing with this. my rule of thumb is add 20% to the advertised price.
every inspection I've been to has had lines of 50 people. and talking to the agents they have multiple offers before the inspection - all unseen.

As I've said before.
the problem isn't just housing prices....
its that there is a huge overlap between the investors and the entry level home buyer.

I would think no-one is buying a 5 bedroom house as an investment... 

the difference between a 2 bedroom unit, and a 3 bedroom home isn't large, because of this.
just look at the way realtor ads are written.

[nomadpete]

4 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Concentrated apartment building's !.

Just like those prewar " Warsaw Ghettos "

Too many people concentrated in too small an area Is bad for their health .

I only ' tried ' living in a " flat " once . Never again .

spacesailor

Equally, the outer suburbs have many ghettos, too. Did you watch the YouTube about Campbelltown, that was linked elsewhere in our forum? Note there are also numerous outer suburbs around every city, that are terrible places to live. Not all dense living is a ghetto. Quite the opposite. I know a number of city dwellers who don't  own a car. They hire one for their holiday jaunts. And they showed me life was easy and cheaper that way. For them.

 

I have lived in a flat a couple of times You get used to it after a while. The benefit was that I could walk to work or restaurants. I did have parking space for a car but I found I didn't  use it near as much as I did in the burbs.

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

but leave the playing fields and go to the shopping centre and you entered a world of anonymity. There is no community spirit.

True OME. That's the Brave New World.

Welcome to worldwide overpopulation.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I would like to see much more affordable housing being built.  A shed can be cheaply built to withstand any weather and earthquake situations. And it can be quickly lined for living in.

BUT the powers that be would ban such a thing out of hand. You are only allowed to have unaffordable housing (  they don't say aloud but they do by their actions ) , and they will send police with guns around if they are disobeyed .

Why do they act so badly?  My guess it's that they like housing increasing in value, which is the result of what is happening right now.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I read that the "wealth divide" in society is too  big for young people who work for wages. The divide is because some have help from their parents to buy a house and some do not. If you have parents who help then you are rich in comparison.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I am in London at the moment, so using a phone, which doesn't go well with fat finger  syndrome.. so will respond fuller in either this eve or Thursday my time.

 

The article doesn't mention refugees, but you can bet your bottom dollar if the debate gets legs, a certain element of our political and press will weaponise them. I was merely pre-empting it.. it is what has happened here.

 

7 hours ago, nomadpete said:

And it is a big stretch to blame the housing shortage upon covid!

 

Maybe.. but it wasn't my idea: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/102208316

 

This was way back in April and rents were on the rise at a time of net emigration.

 

I am open minded about the debate.. my point is you have to look at the numbers and what drives them when determining policy to address the situation.. The article quoted doesn't adequately do that and far more analysis is required.

 

[Edit] I haven't validated the source, but according to this, the net migration rate, which may be more accurate than immigration on the demand of housing, but not in a linear way, is projected to fall in 2023... and has been in continual decline: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/net-migration#:~:text=United Nations projections are also,a 4.34% decline from 2021.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

I think we are below what the peak WAS as far as immigrants go. The ordinary person building a house to live in pays for it with  already  taxed money and can't claim interest or GST or any repairs. I can't see what the generous deal is there. IF you sell at a good price chances are you will have to pay about what you sold your last place for PLUS COSTS so where's the great giveaway or rort.   I've got a great shed 25 x 15 metres good steel frame and good concrete floor.. For about 15K I could line some of it and put some windows in. No wind would blow it away BUT I'm NEVER going to be able to Do that legally.   I'd be perfectly Happy in that or in the corner of a hangar.  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

Good onyer Nev. I personally live in a shed and u are dead right.  I also have a hangar and I agree that it would easily be made fine to live in. 

But the house I sold in Adelaide cost $100,000 and was sold for $400,000 and none of that was taxed and it sure was a rort. The $300,000 profit was just that.

[nomadpete]

My dream home is....

 

A hangar with an ensuite

[red750]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

A hangar with an ensuite

[red750]

There was a report on the TV this morning about protests in the northern suburbs of Melbourne. The area is a growing housing corridor, but the last few stations of the rail line are on a single track. Trains can't pass. So there are numerous cancellations and late trains. This is making it very difficult for workers who are regularly late for work, or kids late for school. But the wonderful stupendous government is so busy building tunnels under the city, it's likely to cave in on itself.

[red750]

Further to my previous post about Asian grocery stores in our area, there are two in Forest Hill Chase shopping centre, one right next door to Aldi, and one about 6 shops around the corner in the same part of the mall. There is also a Coles and Woolies.

 

 

And a sushi bar next to Yang Yang