Road Rules

[willedoo]

I've been reading the guidelines for mobile phone usage on the Qld. government transport department website and am still not 100% clear on a couple of points. The fine for illegal phone usage is now a fine of $1160 plus four demerit points.

 

Firstly, I'm assuming it's legal to drive with a phone in your pocket, but not entirely sure. The guidelines are:

'To keep yourself and other road users safe your full attention is needed when driving. It is illegal to hold a mobile phone in your hand or have it resting on any part of your body, such as your lap, when driving. This applies even if you're stopped in traffic. The phone does not need to be turned on or in use for it to be an offence. Illegal mobile phone use while driving includes:

    holding it in your hand
    resting on any part of your body (eg. your lap or shoulder)

If you hold your phone or have it on your body, you will be fined even if you’re not operating the phone, or it’s turned off.'.

 

So I'm assuming 'or have it on your body' means having the phone resting externally on your body, and does not mean having it in your pocket.

 

The second point is using the phone while pulled over off the road. The guidelines:

'You can also use your phone when safely parked. Parked means stopped with the intention of staying at that place.'

 

It doesn't tell you much. Assuming the engine would have to turned off to qualify as parked, but 'stopped with the intention of staying at that place' seems like a grey area to me. If you were pulled over off the side of the road with the car not running, you could argue that you had the intention of staying at that place (until the phone usage ended), but would the police interpret it that way as well?

[spacesailor]

In NSW they changed some '' rules '' . then charge you $ 14 to get ( what was free ) the road rules book , (  The Highway Code  ) .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

There you go, Spacey. Free to all Interwebby users: https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/sl-2014-0758

 

Rule 300 is the relevant traffic Rule.

 

Note Clause 3A of this Rule:

(3A)  For the purpose of this rule, a vehicle may be parked even though—

(a)  the key to the vehicle is located in the vehicle’s ignition lock, or

(b)  the engine of the vehicle is running.

 

The definition of "park" is: park, in Part 12 and for a driver, includes stop and allow the driver’s vehicle to stay (whether or not the driver leaves the vehicle). Part 12 of the Rules deals with all the ways you can legally place a vehicle on a road or road-related area. 

 

Stop is defined in the Rules by: in Part 12 and for a driver, includes park, but does not include stop to reverse the driver’s vehicle into a parking bay or other parking space. That really doesn't give a clear definition, so a Court would take the usual meaning which is to not move any more.

 

The action of ceasing to move forward , then immediately reverse into a parking spot, is considered to be a continuous action. 

[spenaroo]

questions the legality of tap and go payments in a drive-through

as always common sense is the rule.

For example my MG midget was running rough at low revs last night. 
to keep it from bogging I kept the revs high and accidently spun the wheels - cop was sitting directly behind me.

he pulled me over and I explained it wasn't intentional, trying to avoid rough running.
he was good about it and said he just had to check - and to take it easy.

 

100% could have booked me with hoon legislation.

[facthunter]

Can't you use a phone to tell you the way?  Nev

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, spenaroo said:

questions the legality of tap and go payments in a drive-through

That is legal in NSW under Rule 300:

Subrule (1) does not apply if—

(a)  the vehicle is stationary in a road related area, and

(b)  the phone—

(i)  is functioning as a payment device to enable the driver to pay for goods or services that are required to be paid for in the road related area,

 

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Can't you use a phone to tell you the way

Yep Again in reference to NSW Rule 300(b)  "the phone is functioning as a visual display unit that is being used as a driver’s aid and the phone is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle,"

 

I have linked my comments to the NSW version of the Australian Road Rules. Check with your own State's version because while the majority of rules have been accepted by every State and Territory, there are some omissions and additions. These will be noted in the version provided by the State in which they apply.

[Jerry_Atrick]

3 hours ago, willedoo said:

So I'm assuming 'or have it on your body' means having the phone resting externally on your body, and does not mean having it in your pocket.

In the absence of any precedent, statute, or secondary regulation stating otherwise, that seems to be a valid conclusion as the phone is resting in (not on) your shirt pocket; of course, it will also rest on your body when seated with any inclined position, but, even in QLD (), I can't see a judge interpreting it in any other way based on how the law is framed. Of course, IANAL.

 

Also, cars can be parked with the engine running. There is a misconception in Victoria that as long as the engine is running and the lights are on, one isn't technically parked. I can speak from experience that is not true. I have the fine to prove it (parked, not stopped, in a loading zone).

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, spenaroo said:

questions the legality of tap and go payments in a drive-through

I don't know about other states, but in Queensland those type of transactions are allowed for. Also allowable to touch the phone to retrieve a driver's license in a phone wallet to present to a police officer.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I would have thought you would generally have to be stopped at least, or even parked (in the legal sense) to make a tap and go payment in a drive through.

[willedoo]

$1160 is the mobile phone usage fine according to some websites and talk on the radio, but I found out the maximum is now $3,096. The reason behind the discrepancy with information on some websites is that the government is continually raising the value of a penalty unit.

[willedoo]

I found the Qld. regulations which clears some things up:

 

Use of mobile phones

    (1) The driver of a vehicle must not use a mobile phone while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked.

        Penalty—

            Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

    (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a driver using a mobile phone—

        (a) to the extent the mobile phone—

            (i) is in a pocket of the driver’s clothing, or in a pouch worn by the driver; and

            (ii) kept in a way that—

                (A) does not allow the driver to operate the phone, or a function of the phone, other than by using only the driver’s voice; and

                (B) does not allow the driver to see the face of the phone while the phone, or a function of the phone, is operating; or

        (b) while the vehicle is stationary and to the extent the mobile phone is in a wallet, or has attached to it a wallet, that the driver is using for any of the following purposes—

            (i) to obtain and produce for inspection a licence, permit, authority or other document, as required under an Act or by a police officer or another person acting under an Act;

            (ii) to obtain and use money, or another form of payment, to pay for goods or services, if the place where the vehicle is stationary is a place where the goods or services are lawfully paid for;

                Example of a place for subparagraph (ii)—

                    a drive-through retail outlet

            (iii) to obtain and use a card or other thing to enter a road-related area or land adjacent to a road-related area.

    (3) Also, subsection (1) does not apply to a driver using a mobile phone while the vehicle is stationary for any of the following purposes—

        (a) to produce for inspection a digital authority or other document stored on the phone, as required under an Act or by a police officer or another person acting under an Act;

        (b) to pay for goods or services, if the place where the vehicle is stationary is a place where the goods or services are lawfully paid for;

            Example of a place for paragraph (b)—

                a drive-through retail outlet

        (c) to use the phone as an electronic device that enables the driver to enter a road-related area or land adjacent to a road-related area.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Interesting... I wonder if you had a phone on a mount and was using it as a GPS.. which is very common (at least over here). I presume you can use a GPS (er, satnav), in a car?

 

[red750]

I cannot even check the time on my watch while stopped at the lights, because the screen is blank until I touch the control button, and the display is only shown for about 30 seconds. The watch vibrates if a call comes on the phone (bluetooth connection), but there is no voice connection. I have to ignore it until I can park, then call back.

 

"You must not touch an unmounted portable device in any way, including when stationary but not parked (e.g. while waiting at traffic lights)."

[nomadpete]

Sorry for continuing the digression,  but, do these laws prohibit the use of a hand held CB or other radio? Or the microphone of a dash mounted radio - although  the radio is mounted, the microphone is not?

[Marty_d]

Good to know about the lap thing, I wasn't aware of that. 

[old man emu]

When you read a Law (something written into an Act) or a Regulation (the Rules arising from what is written in the Act) you have to pay particular attention to the very last word, such as here:

to the extent the mobile phone—

            (i) is in a pocket of the driver’s clothing, or in a pouch worn by the driver; and  The other little word is "or". "And" indicates further things that explain what can or cannot be done. "Or" provides for equally acceptable alternatives.

 

Notice that Queensland says "stationery" while NSW just says "park" with the inference that the vehicle remains in the same place for a long time. I would interpret "park" to involve pulling to the side of the road, but not stopped waiting for traffic lights to change.

25 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

do these laws prohibit the use of a hand held CB or other radio?

No. I assume that you mean a transceiver that is not affixed to the vehicle. If it was affixed, I would assume you mean the microphone handpiece.

 

The Act nor the Regulation don't even define "mobile phone". It seems that the Court is required to apply its knowledge of the world to determine if the object alleged to have been used was a "mobile phone". Arguing that since "mobile phone" is not defined in the Regulation, then no offence is created might be an interesting logal point. "Road" and "vehicle" are defined, and has been mentions, so is "park"

[nomadpete]

Well, To my mind, a hand held two way radio is by definition a "unmounted portable device" and therefore could incur a penalty for use whilst the vehicle is moving. Hence my question.

Further, it could be argued that a installed two way radio is a device that has become part of the vehicle. But the mic is not affixed to the vehicle, and could be considered "unmounted " when it is in my hand.

14 hours ago, red750 said:

"You must not touch an unmounted portable device in any way, including when stationary but not parked (e.g. while waiting at traffic lights)."

PS: a mobile phone is really just a fancy handheld portable two way radio.

Edited October 13, 2023 by nomadpete

[willedoo]

The Qld. law says you can use the phone if parked, but not if stationary and not parked, meaning stopped at traffic lights etc on the roadway. CB's and two way radios are legal to use, also emergency services are exempt and can use their phones.

 

I guess the leniency behind UHF radios and the like is that they are not as distracting as a phone. They are turned on all the time and there's only audio and not a distracting screen. Talking only involves grabbing the handpiece and holding it. Most radio users stay on a set channel so there's no fiddling with knobs or buttons while driving.

[willedoo]

6 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Well, To my mind, a hand held two way radio is by definition a "unmounted portable device" and therefore could incur a penalty for use whilst the vehicle is moving. Hence my question.

Further, it could be argued that a installed two way radio is a device that has become part of the vehicle. But the mic is not affixed to the vehicle, and could be considered "unmounted " when it is in my hand.

In the Qld. regulations radios are specifically exempt:

'(5)In this section—

    mobile phone does not include a CB radio or any other two-way radio'.

[old man emu]

It's fun when you are policing as a single unit and get into a pursuit. It's one hand on he wheel and one holding the radio mike as you broadcast what is going on.

[Old Koreelah]

Our VRA trucks have a bank of radios- any of which is likely to talk to you- plus heaps of switches for sirens and flashing lights. It’s definitely a two-person job; when driving I can’t afford to give them any attention.

Mobile phones are a hazard because you need eyes on them just to accept an incoming call. A radio mike hanging within reach is much less distracting.

[willedoo]

When I first started working FIFO work, we used only HF radios. We had channels on 2,3,4,7,9 and 13 MHz. From memory 2020 was the channel the locals used (known as the chatter channel). It was sometimes amusing to tune into and listen to the old girls swapping recipes. The 3MHz channel was the one we used in the field, the 4MHz channel was the flying doctor. 7,9 and 13 we used to contact our base in S.E. Qld. 7 would normally get out to the top end of South Australia, 9 was needed to reach the top half of the NT, and 13MHz was used to reach the Kimberleys in WA. Early in the morning in the NT and the Kimberleys we used to get skip interference from Indonesian fishermen on the 3MHz channel.

 

Later on when satellite phones became available, the HF radios were no longer used and we used UHF radios to talk in the field. I missed the safety aspect of the HF radios as the UHF had it's limits sometimes. Luckily we never had too many emergencies. One downside to the HF was those whopping big sprung aerials we had to have on the bullbar. I can still remember the night I first saw someone demonstrate how to light a fluro tube with one. It's a weird feeling to hold a fluro tube in your hand and watch it light up.

[spacesailor]

Marine ' radio ' dropped the HF & went to UHF , only to find they ( UHF) didn't have the range to do the " legal " reporting,  when having to attend  the ' boarder & customs control ' .

spacesailor

[red750]

The quote in my pevious post was from the RACV website, and applies to fully licenced drivrs. More resrictive rules for P-platers.

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Marine ' radio ' dropped the HF & went to UHF , only to find they ( UHF) didn't have the range to do the " legal " reporting,  when having to attend  the ' boarder & customs control ' .

spacesailor

Spacey, HF always was great for long distances and it remains now as it was.

The high end HF (27Mhz) was pretty much canned, and is replaced by VHF which generally has better resuts up to 50nM.(not counting erratic skip that 27Mhz sometimes had).

 

I only use VHF (50Km range). But if I plan to go greater distances than 50k offshore, I would consider HF.

 

Meanwhile, radio AIS (marine version of ATSB) gives me situational awareness of most other craft (course, speed, track, time to collision) and  general collision avoidance.

 

Pity that the aviation industry failed to agree  on simple stuff like this which is affordable to the average boaters. Would be nice on an aircraft.

Edited October 13, 2023 by nomadpete