Do we need to revamp our education system?

[Jerry_Atrick]

In 1990, Bob Hawke mad a speech in which he said he wanted to transform Australia from the lucky country to the clever country. No doubt, education has progressed significantly since I went to school, but I can't help but feeling, in many typically western countries, at its core, it is still much the same. Sure, the three Rs are core to education, but I can't help but feel that advances of education today simply reflect the advancements in the three Rs. As an example, when I did year 11 maths, we were taught fortran programming. Today, I am sure, they are taught AI programming (or at least interacting with AI Application Programming Interfaces - connections to the AI models).

 

 

But there are three things that have struck me about western education. Firstly, how relatively rigid it is; each kid is different and has differnt stengths and weaknesses. Yet each kid has to follow the same syllabus, which originates, as far as I can tell, from Victorian times. Apart from picling electives, there appears to be little room for truly individual learning. I presisted with year 12 maths and physics, but I know if I were allowed to apply it to fluid dynamics and aeronautics, I would have been m uch more engaged. I was even excited by the teacher's delving into nuclear physics, only to have it dashed after dealing with the most basic concepts.

 

Secondly, the subject matter is more or less stayed; I am surprised at how the education system allows us to graduate from secondary school without a true breadth of topics covered, especially those that affect us every day in a more or less direct sense. How the financial markets work, for example, is a big gap - this affects everything from inflation to the country's ability to remain solvent, yet even Economics doesn't delive into the practical applications of financial markets.  How many people don't realise that the bond markets, not the equities (stock) markets are the bellweather of the state of the economy. Yet, virtually no one knows even what a bond is, let alone a yield curve or a treasury incursion. Yet, if more people did, more people could take control of their finanical lives. And of course, there is the real legal knowledge; the jurisprudence that underpins the very fabric of an orderly society..

 

Thirdly, how little regard we hold teachers of all walks in; and how little we pay them. Let's face it, many (not all, and hopefully not a majority) enter teaching because, although it is low paid, it is asafe career; and sadly, some because they could not make it in their chosen profession, As an example, there was a student teacher in our HSC economics class. He was amazingly intelligent and qualified as a lawyer at Melb University with distinctions. Yet he could not get a job as a lawyer as, sadly, he had an unfortunate disposition where whenever he talked, he sounded like a dunse. He had a slow and slurred speech, that was a deep drawl. He was unable to command any respect from the kid, and it showed. I asked him one day why he wanted to be a teacher and he stated it was because he was advised it was the one profession likely to take him.

 

Contrast this with Finland, widely accepted to be one of the most successful education systems in the world. They don't have central marking systems like we do. They let kids do what they want, but in a supported and meaningful manner - they let kids explore their world, and let them develop the inquisitiveness in directions they want to. There are not even grades handed out and there are certainly no league tables (as there are in the UK). But they do encourage the kids to explore all sorts of different subjects, including those that are not normally on western curricula.

 

And in one show (which was verified by my brother who is in Aussie education and took a jollie to observe the Finnish system), teaching is not the profession you take becase you have to. Like a doctor or a dentist, you really have to want to be a teacher to become one; and they are highly paid and enjoy high status in society.

 

Should we implement the Finnish model, or something similar, or are we too stuck in Victorian times?

 

 

[Marty_d]

I agree but there's a few things that make it unlikely here. 

First is that education is a state based system, not national. 

Second is cost, governments (especially on the conservative side) are reluctant to spend on education. At the moment even some of the private schools have 30 kids per class with one overworked teacher who spends 90% of the time dealing with kids with issues. 

Thirdly is the large proportion of private, usually religious based, schools who only grudgingly teach the required curriculum now - I'd hate to imagine what they'd do if given free range. 

[spenaroo]

the school teacher used to be a well respected part of the community. to the point of rules around the social life's of the unmarried teachers
now its seen more as a caretaker role.

pushing for equality - means everyone gets the same crappy education,

as they run at the pace of the slowest child.

"no child left behind" is another way of saying "no child gets ahead"
 

[gareth lacey]

Bob Hawke also said and i quote "no child will live in poverty by   (insert date) what a crock ,in my opinion 1 of the worst politicians ever

[onetrack]

The problem is, in the last 40 or so years, there was a major drop in teaching of the very basics of literacy and numeracy. From the 80's onwards, "enlightened attitudes" prevailed all through the schooling system, so that kids could be promoted to higher levels without even attaining basic literacy and numeracy. It was believed that this didn't matter. So we end up with teachers who can't spell, who can't write properly, who need others correcting their output constantly.

 

We get people leaving the education system totally reliant on calculators because they can't even do basic maths. We get kids who can't add up the required change in monetary transactions mentally, they need to revert to a device - and even then, they're totally confused.

 

We need a revised education system that ensures children aren't promoted without the basic levels of literacy and numeracy. Perhaps that means individual tutoring and different tutoring methods. Everyone learns in a different manner - some people are really fast at picking esoteric principles, or complex laws of physics and science. If the basic education levels remain fixed, any other levels of education can then be allowed to be flexible.

[spacesailor]

It is said , the English education system is a poor second, to the ' system that they don't won't ' .

spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

I too cringed when bob hawke said that "no child will live in poverty" but I reasoned that he really meant that to the extent a govt can control, no child need live in poverty. You would have to stop the parents drinking all the money otherwise.

On education, there is a tremendous difference between actual learning and curriculum hopes. We are loaded with suggestions like " teach the kids first aid" which is sensible, but the time must come at the expense of the three r's. When there are situations like my ex next-door's kid who went from yr 12 to tafe illiteracy , it is obvious that we are failing to teach the basics first.

[Bruce Tuncks]

On the status of teachers, I completely agree with those who want a higher status without accepting rubbish teachers, and with the idea that kids should not be promoted without gaining some mastery of what was taught.

About 50 years ago, this was exactly the system which was in place and although I sure complained at the time, it was right for me. The new young teachers with university degrees were accepted in town as true professionals, and they behaved as such. Gosh we have gone downhill since then.

[spacesailor]

ANY child , with a good memory can & will , excel with this system of education .

Those test do Not take account of the ' years ' work completed. 

spacesailor

[Old Koreelah]

Australia, the land of Could’a beens.

 

We’ve had no end of inquiries, promises and reshuffles. The results have been pretty much more of the same, while other countries race past us.
 

Our short electoral cycle and the overwhelming influence of the right-wing media has crueled many reform attempts.
Goski might have reformed our school system, but governments chickened out. Privates schools are now far better-funded that Public schools and the gap is getting wider.

 

Australia still looks to the USA for much of its policy, despite America having one of the worst education systems in the developed world. Their schools are years behind even ours and over half their best University brains are immigrants.
The conservative side of American politics doesn’t want an educated electorate; they want a compliant workforce and mass market. Australia is being drawn in that direction.

Our media, dominated by foreigners, are right behind them. Recent events show how easily the gullible masses can be manipilated when the usual buttons are pressed. 

 

During fifty years in the education sector, perhaps our most dangerous adversary was the ignorance promoted by the media and the advertising industry (whores to any dirty, dangerous product or cause, as long as there’s a dollar in it).

 

Our traditional school system has always been pulled one way, then another at the whim of governments.

 

The traditional approach dampens kids’ natural enthusiasm for learning, resulting in chaotic classrooms, stressed out teachers and frustrated parents.

 

There are plenty of political leaders of goodwill who have tried to improve our education system, but any reform usually attracts merciless criticism. Given the storm of misinformation and abuse unleashed by one recent attempt to change the status quo, who could blame them for giving up? 
 

Australia once led the world in social innovation. Now I despair for my country.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Well said old K but I hope its not that bad.

 

[facthunter]

Class size was 48 but often went to 55 when I left. You shouldn't have to send your kid to a private school. Teachers have to be able to TEACH .Knowing your subject is not enough. The were Known as untrained GRADUATES at the time and didn't last long in the classroom. Ther rest of us saw a few come and Go. The noise would get louder and louder. Nev

[Marty_d]

Getting that magical creature, a teacher who can inspire, is what every kid needs.

Someone who can take that dusty curriculum and bring it to life for their pupils.   Someone with enthusiasm and a love of the subject. 

I don't know how you get that in every class, especially with the money driven system we have,  but when a kid gets someone like that they remember them their whole life. 

[Old Koreelah]

36 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Getting that magical creature, a teacher who can inspire, is what every kid needs.

Someone who can take that dusty curriculum and bring it to life for their pupils.   Someone with enthusiasm and a love of the subject. 

I don't know how you get that in every class, especially with the money driven system we have,  but when a kid gets someone like that they remember them their whole life. 

I know talented teachers who were crushed by the out-of-classroom workload. Too much time spent on tedious compliance paperwork. Technology could greatly streamline the planning, evaluating, analyzing and recording. 
There are some rays of hope on the horizon. Last week I spent a day in a big hospital (my brother got trampled by cattle and my sister was trying to get her heart out of AF). The visiting surgeon was accompanied by a young bloke (perhaps an intern) who typed everything into a big console, presumably to free up the doctor to do what he does best. 

[old man emu]

9 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

Too much time spent on tedious compliance paperwork

That sems to be one of the biggest problems - satisfying the the overseers. As for teaching modern technology - most teachers are as illiterate in that area as every other person from the teacher's age group. It's not their fault. They have spent their time trying to herd cats and develop a way to teach people who come from a different "culture". When you see toddlers in strollers using mobile devices with ease, you soon realise they the toddlers live in a different world from their parents. And teachers are often from the age group that is the grandparents to the toddler.

[Old Koreelah]

16 minutes ago, old man emu said:

…When you see toddlers in strollers using mobile devices with ease, you soon realise they the toddlers live in a different world from their parents. And teachers are often from the age group that is the grandparents to the toddler.

All true, but kids still need to learn to read. From the earliest age they benefit from picture books, then progress to basic readers. Some already have started reading and writing before they start Kinder. Others begin school with no bluddy idea how to turn the pages of a book. They came from households without books. I’ve taught kids from those sort of homes, with parents who confidently proclaimed that all their kids needed to learn about was computers. 
 

By far the greatest factor in a child’s educational success is parents

[spacesailor]

I skipped school, & ran to my brother,  when about 9ish. A diffe,different school and his teacher was like ,

MARTYD spoke of .  I sat in that classroom doorway and was completely enthralled. 

A complete opposite to the ' demobbed soldier's ' at my school ..

spacesailor

[onetrack]

I was one of the fortunate ones - my parents were "old school", and my Mother taught me to read and write, before I even went to school. The teachers were astonished. But a succession of poor teachers in high school left me totally disenchanted with schooling and further education and I turned my back on it. I often wonder what the result would have been, if I'd had better teachers, and took a different path in life.

The greatest failure in my education was not learning how to deal effectively with rapacious financial institutions, who will destroy your lifes work in an instant, with their intransigent decision-making.

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, onetrack said:

rapacious financial institutions, who will destroy your lifes work in an instant, with their intransigent decision-making.

Bankers: Ned Kelly in a suit of Armani.

[red750]

My eldest sister (2 yrs younger than me) was taught by a woman who had taught my mother when she was in primary school. At high school, my history teacher had taught my father. Mr Cartledge was a great teacher who brought history to life, and who could draw very accurate and detailed maps on the blackboard, freehand.

[red750]

[red750]

Not sure if this should be in the Silly Picture thread, but shows how bad the American education system is:

 

[red750]

And here is one we have here constantly...(or should that be hear..only joking)

 

 

 

[red750]

And yet another.