Has the Mining Boom Destroyed Australia?

[old man emu]

Has Australia's heavy reliance on the export of of iron ore and coal destroyed its broader economy? While we think of ourselves as politically independent are we still living under economic colonialism?

 

Recently I bought a pair of work shorts sporting the label "Ruggers" for a few cents under $30. The reason I chose Ruggers as opposed to any other brand was because in the past these shorts were made from good, robust cotton material. I couldn't help noticing today as I ironed them how thin the material is. Definitely not the type of material to withstand the rigours of a rough working environment for very long. Of course the label on the shorts told me "Made in China".

 

That got me thinking about the source of the clothes of my youth. My school shirts were made by Beare & Ley, a company originally based in the southern Sydney suburb of Hurstville  You can still buy shirts with that label, but "Made in China". The business is now permanently closed, and reviews indicate that the clothing is of poor quality and overpriced.

 

 

 

My school shorts and trousers were made by Australian Woolen Mills and sold under the brand name, "Stamina". Remember the collector card you got with every pair of shorts?

In the 1960s, Dad's business suits were made by the Reuben F Scarf company from whom you could buy "off the rack" or have your suit tailor made. It seems that tailoring side of things has gone the way of the Dodo.

 

These three examples show how businesses that were quite viable and which provided employment for Australians and used Australian-produced materials have been destroyed because, in exchange for iron ore and coal, we have to accept the products of the Chinese manufacturing. I can easily create a much longer list of previously viable companies which served the basic needs of Australians which have closed their doors due to the boardroom decisions made solely to enhance a corporate bottom line.

 

Australians might allegedly enjoy a high standard of living, but really we are living on the skin of a massive soap bubble, that if it should burst would leave us with nothing. No manufacturing industry. No food processing industry. No clothing industry. Isn't that what economic colonialism means? One developed country extracts the resources of a less developed country in exchange for products that are simply those resources that have been value-added. Once another source of these resources is found, the developed country walks away and the economy of the less developed country collapses.

 

 

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

Gee OME.

 

I was already on a downer from the diatribe on the Corruption thread.

 

And Mr Minns says that it is terrible to interrupt coal exports (to save the planet) because it brings  $40 billion dollars into the country. And we need this money to 'transition'. Gee, at my level in the food chain, I don't  see my share of that.

 

Do the sums.

 

$40 billion if equitably was distributed among the population should make each man, woman and child a multi millionaire.

 

Then I should be flush with funds to set up a 'Made-in-Australia' business.

[nomadpete]

OME is saying that Australia  is now a economic colony of China?

[facthunter]

Practically everything we buy is made there. Bosch injectors included.  Nev

[spenaroo]

the lucky country was never meant as a positive name....
it was that no matter how incompetent and stupid the decisions we made were, we dug something out of the ground and didn't face the consequences.
I still think the only thing we are winning is a race to the bottom.

[facthunter]

It used to be known as the Rat RACE, but the RATS won.   Perhaps the greatest IRONY is the Red rock we (well A couple of us) mine and sell. They say "It's only DIRT till WE dig it up" and when the prices drop they dig it up faster which you can only do Once and the prices go lower and you're giving away Australia's resources .  Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

OME is saying that Australia  is now a economic colony of China?

Too right, mate!

Probably more likely that we are a co-owned cooperative of Wall Street, Canary Wharf and Lujiazui. 

 

The term "the lucky country" is meant to be ironic. The author, Donald Horne, stated explicitly, 'Australia is a lucky country, run mainly by second-rate people who share its luck.' Typically, journalists of the time were too stupid to recognise irony, which is the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. In Horne's case, it was for emphasis. The journalists took the literal meaning of "lucky". The correct description of Australia at present is "the land of the lotus-eaters". Figuratively, 'lotus-eater' denotes "a person who spends their time indulging in pleasure and luxury rather than dealing with practical concerns". 

 

Sometimes one feels like one would enjoy taking up a seat in God's waiting room. The promise of greatness held out to our parents following the distress of the Great Depression and the horrors of world war, which were also held out to the baby Boomers has proved to be a hollow sham.

[onetrack]

There's a dirty word the Australian Iron Ore miners don't want to hear, and its name is - Simandou, in Guinea. Simandou is the worlds biggest deposit of the worlds highest grade iron ore - and the Chinese are pouring literally shiploads of money into developing the Simandou iron ore deposit to reduce their dependency on Australian iron ore.

To the extent the Chinese are building a massive 650km long rail line, complete with major tunnels up to 11kms long, and hundreds of bridges, to get the Simandou iron ore to port. Then the Chinese have also built the port on the Guinea coast to ship the iron ore out.

On top of that, the Chinese have also built another major port in nearby Nigeria, possibly as a backup to anything disrupting the port in Guinea.

 

The end game is to force iron ore prices down and to make Australian iron ore profits minimal. Of course, the Australian iron ore producers also have the benefits of less distance to ship iron ore to China, and they have much major infrastructure already amortised, and they operate in a stable political, economic and industrial climate, with extensive automation (virtually all mining fleets are fully automated today).

 

It is going to be an interesting period ahead as China's investment into opening up Simandou is reportedly well north of US$20B already, and that could likely end up a lot more. On top of that, the Chinese economy is already slowing and their property market is simply a financial disaster, the level of which is yet to be revealed, and which will impact the Chinese economy for years to come.

 

Meantimes, the Australian appetite for Chinese products continues apace - and it's not all a bad thing. A large proportion of cheap Chinese products have enabled cost reductions in many Australian operations - from engineering to even port operations.

 

As an example, a few years back, the Port of Esperance wanted to upgrade their cargo handling facilities with mobile wharf cranes. These are the tall spidery-looking things you see on multiple huge wheels, trundling up and down the wharves, unloading cargo.

The Chinese knock these things up wholesale and they are a very good product. The P of E called tenders for half a dozen of these cranes and got quotes from Australian manufacturers and Chinese manufacturers.

 

The Australian wharf cranes came in at triple the cost of the Chinese ones - and delivery cost was extra. The Chinese price was delivery included (they have specialised flat-top ships to deliver them, they simply ballast the ship until it reaches the wharf level, then they simply drive the cranes off the ship and onto the wharf).

 

Then came inquiries as to length of warranty. The Australian company pointed out that they offered a comprehensive 12 month warranty. The Chinese said, "our warranty period is 20 years!!" It was a no-brainer for the Esperance Port. Virtually every port in the world utilises Chinese wharf cranes, they have the market sewn up.

 

I've recently bought a Chinese magnetic drill with 57mm drilling capacity. It cost me $250 and came complete with a mind-boggling array of accessories, including a coolant bottle and an inbuilt drill cooling arrangement. I bought a Chinese carbide tipped annular cutter ($76) and zipped 8 holes through 50mm thick steel plate in less than an hour.

 

I would've had to pay possibly $400-$500 to any local engineering business to drill those 8 holes - if they were interested enough to take on the job.

Any other brand of magnetic drill runs to $1000-$1500 - and half of the "name brands" are made in China, anyway!!

 

I bought a Chinese air-operated and foot-operated, high pressure (10,000psi/700bar) hydraulic pump to operate presses, hydraulic cylinders and hydraulic bead breaker for bigger tyres/rims.

it cost me $134 - delivered - with a 2 yr warranty. It works a treat. Any other "brand name" pump would cost me $1500-$2000 and be right out my reach.

 

I did the same with a little 50mm engine-driven water transfer pump for firefighting and general water movement. It cost me $186 off eBay and that included delivery. It works a treat - although I did have to install the fuel line between tank and carby, because in their haste to assemble it, some Chinese assembler forgot to hook up the fuel line! Not to worry, the rest of it seems fine, and it's already done quite a bit of water pumping.

 

In our haste to "knock" Chinese products, we forget that a lot of Australian-built products came with major assembly faults.

I bought a new HQ Holden sedan in early 1972 and drove around for a day in it, before it started to get sluggish to start.

Took it back to the dealer, and they found the factory had forgotten to install the charge wire between the battery terminal and the alternator! (this was supposed to be crimped into the lead battery terminal - it had been left out completely!).

 

So, despite our longing to have Australian-made, good quality products on the shelves of our stores, the simple fact remains that Australian buyers vote with their wallet to find the product that does the job admirably at the lowest cost, with the general view that Australian made products offer no better quality, and always much higher pricing - with many "Australian" products simply being made in China and rebadged anyway.

 

The areas I detest seeing intrusion by the Chinese, is into our food production and our vital infrastructure, such as port investment. I don't think we should be importing any food from China, we need to be 100% self-sufficient in that area - and any Chinese investment into our vital infrastructure needs to be closely examined.

 

I also detest the amount of Chinese money going into our already inflated housing and property market, and I fear this level of Chinese investment in this area is going to be seriously detrimental to our society in the long run.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by onetrack

[spacesailor]

Our local clothing manufacturer,  has gone to China ! .

But

I , WE,  don't like that idea & we will not buy their products .

Bonds are Chinese so is the same , as all Chinese manufacturers. 

I don't discriminate.  But would have payed more for Australian made .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

Do you get the impression that the horse has bolted and taken the stable door wit it?

[spacesailor]

It's not all ' doom & gloom ' .

I know people who buy wool , " card " , " spin " & " knit" it, and sell that " hand made in Australia  jumper " to a certain Sydney shop for $ 100 a piece. 

 Now you go & check the shop to see If you would ' pay ' that price for a Chinese jumper .

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

IF you cross a  kangaroo with a sheep you get a Woolly Jumper.   Nev

[onetrack]

Change is constant and can't be stopped. We lost the ability to compete with low Chinese manufacturing costs and high volumes long ago.

We're on the worlds biggest island on the underside of the Earth and if we wanted to compete, we'd need to quadruple our population and find some way to reduce shipping costs.

 

The Chinese are the worlds oldest traders, they've been doing this for 5000 years. They own huge numbers of ships and aircraft and the Chinese Govt subsides the transport of their goods to aid their economic production.

They know they need to export to survive - the U.S. move to return a lot of manufacturing to America has left them dismayed.

But the Americans still can't compete with the Chinese, only on the technology front, and with automation.

Regardless of what the Americans manufacture, it's expensive - they simply tell everyone it's top quality, so they have to pay more for it.

 

Our strength lies in the technological areas as well, and there are a few areas where Australia is doing alright - the cardboard drones are one thing that comes to mind, the Bushmaster PMV is sought after worldwide, and surprisingly there are a number of operators in the automotive design and automotive engineering scene who are quietly doing well.

 

We need to concentrate on cutting edge technology in EV's, power generation, new batteries, communications, the medical field, education, and the dozen other fields where we can beat the Chinese, and at the same time improve our economic base, concentrating on cost reduction. I'm surprised there hasn't been more development of many of CSIRO's good ideas, such as the supercapacitor.

 

https://reneweconomy.com.au/eleven-aussie-battery-start-ups-tapped-for-hyper-acceleration/

 

 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Mining has been the mainstay of Australia's economy for nearly two centuries. It built our cities and our society.

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

Mining has been the mainstay of Australia's economy for nearly two centuries. It built our cities and our society.

True.

However it would be wise to start preparing for the big dip in GDP which  must eventually come when our raw materials market gets undercut by other countries.

When the gravy train goes elsewhere, what will happen to our economy?

[willedoo]

In regard to the loss of Australian manufacturing and the importation of Chinese goods, the old days are not coming back. People like Pauline Hanson like to tell the gullible that voting for her will turn the clock back, but it's not going to happen. That horse bolted so long ago that not many people can even remember what colour it was. High priced Australian made goods are gone.

[spacesailor]

It's not all ' doom & gloom ' .

Now ' our ' government is going to Make local councils to ' allow ' a different type of  " housing " ,

So that they can be ' erected ' faster than conventional housing. And A lot cheaper .

Why a " standard " 3 bed house , for a couple who are just starting life . They only ' need ' one bedroom .

spacesailor

 

[Marty_d]

It's generally land that's the big cost, not the house. And if you start with a 1 bedroom and start punching out kids, pretty soon you'll be putting on extensions which will cost more than just building it in the first place.

[old man emu]

13 hours ago, onetrack said:

https://reneweconomy.com.au/eleven-aussie-battery-start-ups-tapped-for-hyper-acceleration/

 

Be careful of anything that you read about startups in the EV world. If you read the above article you will soon see that it all it talks about is "artillery companies", companies that are "gunna". 

 

Take this part of the story: 

EV FireSafe for Business

Co-founded by two firefighters, this company provides expert electric vehicle fire and safety knowledge for companies working with electrified transport.

That blue bit in the article is a link to a website. Guess what! When you click on it, you go to a page that says that the URL has been set aside for future use, but there is no actual website. Surely a that's a scam warning.

 

Another mob named is The Good Car Company. It allegedly provides affordable EVs through bulk-buys, direct sales and subscription. The company imports new and second-hand EVs to boost Australia’s lagging EV market.

 

To me, the whole article is a list of snake oil salesmen. If we are ever to convert 100% to electrically-powered vehicles, the very first problem that has to be admitted to and addressed is the means to extinguish battery fires. When these batteries begin to convert their chemical constituents to heat, they not only generate their own combustion-sustaining oxygen, but also a variety of very toxic substances which are released into the atmosphere.

 

Do EVs catch fire more often than ICEs? The question should be reframed as "Do more EVs catch fire than do ICEs without involvement from external sources?" That question would eliminate arson, bush and building fires and most post-collision fires. The current problem with EVs is that their fires are frequently DIY efforts.

 

Am I against renewable energy? No. I would advocate that a solar array is installed on every new building. 

[facthunter]

Plenty of IC Engined car accidents result in fires. I wouldn't like to be in a tunnel where a fuel tanker went up, either.   Nev

[facthunter]

Back to the mining question? Why doesn't restoration of the land become part of it? ALL of Newcastle is undermined and subsidence is always happening. The MacArthurRiver in the NT you can't eat anything out of it. Lake Macquarie is polluted from the Ash of a Power Station. It's an otherwise beautiful Lake. All this should be part of the cost of doing business. Not left for the taxpayer to clean up.   Nev

[Marty_d]

Because the mining industry have done their sums and it's far cheaper to buy politicians than clean up their messes. 

[facthunter]

It's fairly obvious who is in their Pay. The National's stand out like dogs Balls. Plenty of Farmers don't like what mining does..   Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Plenty of IC Engined car accidents result in fires. 

I don't deny that at all. But very few ICEs, parked and not running suddenly undergo spontaneous combustion as occurs in EVs. And remember this: at the moment the propaganda machine is going full steam ahead in the promotion of EVs as God's divine wind to defeat environmental degradation. Therefore, incidents where an EV suddenly turns into a kerbside bonfire are hushed up.  How much wool is above your eyes?

 

When an ICE burns, it uses up the combustible fuel it is carrying, and the non-metal rest of it. It is easy to put out a car fire with water and/or foam. Those methods depend on stopping the access to oxygen. However, when an EV battery ignites, it releases oxygen from its chemical components, and that oxygen feeds the combustion. That is like the liquid propellants for rockets - a mixture of a liquid oxidizers  such as liquid oxygen, dinitrogen tetroxide, and hydrogen peroxide and a combustible substance. These fires cannot be extinguished by excluding atmospheric oxygen.

[nomadpete]

23 minutes ago, old man emu said:

It is easy to put out a car fire with water and/or foam.

Check your wool, OME.

I have attended a number of vehicle fires. I can assure you, it is NOT easy to extinguish a liquid fuelled  car fire. The water and foam only prevents the fire spreading to the roadside grass. And the fumes from ANY car fire are VERY  toxic.

They burn for hours.

However, according to USofA statistics, the average EV fire usually takes twice as much water as a ICE car fire.

 

I have not compared the probability stats for EV fires.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by nomadpete