Has the Mining Boom Destroyed Australia?

[Marty_d]

On the positive side, you can change careers now whereas in earlier times when apprenticeships were 10 or 12 years, you really were stuck in that profession for life.

My brother in law was a paper pusher until his late 30s, then went to TAFE and became an electrician. Obviously having the support of a wife with a good job helped. 

[nomadpete]

I think you'd have to go a long way back to find  a 10 - 12 year apprenticeship.

 

It was 4 years back in the 50's.

 

But they did not have adult entry for apprenticeships for many trades back then, so it was very difficult to change careers unless you did a adult entry degree.

 

I do think that they made a big mistake by raising the apprentice wage too much. Bearing in mind that for the first two years a parenting is basically a load on the tradesman until they gain skills/common sense, and only need enough money for lunches and bus fares. Nowadays apprentices expect to be paid enough to get married snd raise kids.

[Marty_d]

Yes, the 10 year ones were a couple hundred years back, when you started in childhood and worked for nothing for the master.  But as OME mentioned, that was when craftsmanship was valued.

I'm not sure that the apprentice is a load on the tradie for 2 years, depends on the apprentice really.  Get someone who's quick and motivated and they'll be far more useful than a lazy qualified tradie.

[old man emu]

24 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

I do think that they made a big mistake by raising the apprentice wage too much.

Do any motor vehicle servicing mobs charge you less when an apprentice does your oil change rather than a tradesman? No way! It's the same price no matter how qualified the person who does the work is.

 

33 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Nowadays apprentices expect to be paid enough to get married snd raise kids.

The statistics refute that. From the mid-1970s until 2018 there was a steady and ongoing increase in the median age of men and women at first marriage. This upward trend halted between 2018 and 2020 but continued again in 2021. In 2021 the median age of men was 30.8 years, and women 29.4 years.

 

However, I will concede that while these figures are based on the number of registered marriages, they do not reflect the actuality that many young people are living together and raising kids without the formality of the legality of a marriage. I suspect that even some of those who marry older are simply formalising a long-standing relationship.

 

"Teen marriages" have never been a common thing, except for political reasons amongst the aristocracy. Taking early 20th Century figures from Britain, we see that men and women were marrying on average at ages 27.5 and 26.2 in England and Wales in 1911, and ages 28.3 and 26.4 in Scotland in 1901.

[nomadpete]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

When I was an apprentice, back in the days of indentured apprenticeships, I couldn't afford the sleasiest of rentals until I finished my time and went onto tradesman's wages.

 

More recently, my stepson got married, moved into a neat rented house and started his family - whilst still in his third year plumbing apprenticeship.

 

Ergo, a livable income was not available to apprentices under the old system, but is now.

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Ergo, a livable income was not available to apprentices under the old system, but is now.

9 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Nowadays apprentices expect to be paid enough to get married snd raise kids.

BUT was that his expectation when he began his apprenticeship, or is he merely the beneficiary of a change in the economy?

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

BUT was that his expectation when he began his apprenticeship, or is he merely the beneficiary of a change in the economy?

The present apprenticeship scheme provides better income than it once did.

 

And present payscales exceed the earning capacity of unskilled apprentiles

[pmccarthy]

Except in Broken Hill, where apprentices around about 1970 could drive around in new GT Falcons. Wheels magazine used to send a reporter there to see the latest models. Of all my mates, apprentices seemed to be the best paid. It’s history now of course.

[old man emu]

Anyone working in the mining industry earns way above the average wage for their level of skill and experience. Back in 1974 I mixed with young blokes who were underground coal miners. They drank whiskey. I drank shandies.

[facthunter]

Your liver may be in better condition.  Nev

[onetrack]

And you're still alive and I'll wager a number of the underground miners you knew, aren't alive any more.

When I was working in the W.A. Goldfields in the early to mid-1970's, we were losing around one miner a month due to rockfalls.

 

Fortunately, improved mining techniques involving more mechanisation and much more protective equipment, and a strong accent on safety, has seen mining deaths in W.A. reduce dramatically in the intervening 50 years.

[facthunter]

They are still getting cases of "black Lung" in the Hunter Valley. My ancestors were Coal Miners.  Nev

[pmccarthy]

4 hours ago, onetrack said:

And you're still alive and I'll wager a number of the underground miners you knew, aren't alive any more.

When I was working in the W.A. Goldfields in the early to mid-1970's, we were losing around one miner a month due to rockfalls.

 

Fortunately, improved mining techniques involving more mechanisation and much more protective equipment, and a strong accent on safety, has seen mining deaths in W.A. reduce dramatically in the intervening 50 years.

I was a member of the WMC "elimination of fatalities taskforce". I think it made a big difference.

[spacesailor]

Now , there's plenty of closed & abandoned mines in many countries, 

Why no fill them with that ' nuclear waste ' that is hard to put to sleep ( safely  away ) for many centuries .

I have been in an old training mine, it's so large you could easily build a single storey house there

And that was one level of many.

spacesailor

[facthunter]

1/2 life of 35,000 years and guarantee no leakage?  Nuclear waste is the stuff of nightmares. Just where is a satisfactory solution in Place? Who would want it near them?   Nev

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Just where is a satisfactory solution in Place

Unfortunately, we must accept compromises. Burn dinosaur juice and you heat up the planet. Use nuclear fission and you are left with a "small" volume of nasty waste (relative to the energy produced from the fresh material). Solar can't make hay while the Sun doesn't shine, and the answer, my friend, isn't blowin' in the wind. We can sequester nuclear waste underground, if we select the best geological formations to put it into. 

[facthunter]

It hasn't been done satisfactorily yet. It's too expensive and WE don't need it. Also you are adding heat where with the sun and wind you don't. That energy is there anyhow and anyone can set up their own and be independent..  Nev

[spacesailor]

At a ' Huge ' cost to go " stand alone " .

Without " subsidies or payback returns " .

I justchecked what my " going solar " will cost .

spacesailor

[onetrack]

I've often thought about building a huge wind driven flywheel to store energy - but it appears I'm not alone with that thought pattern.

 

https://www.en-former.com/en/tu-dresden-builds-huge-flywheel-storage-system-for-wind-turbines/

[facthunter]

There ARE options. Solar array is today less than 1/4 of what it was when I got it installed. Forward thinking Local Councils could set up battery banks to the advantage of the Community and make supply more assured.  Nev

[facthunter]

Power the flywheel with surplus solar and wind power.  Nev (some higher Power has just changed my print style.). 

Edited December 2, 2023 by facthunter

[Litespeed]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

Power the flywheel with surplus solar and wind power.  Nev (some higher Power has just changed my print style.). 

That because you have reached a higher level of intelligence and have been rewarded.

 

 

[nomadpete]

3 minutes ago, Litespeed said:

That because you have reached a higher level of intelligence and have been rewarded.

 

 

I just KNEW we couldn't trust  artificial intelligence to make important judgements.

[onetrack]

Sorry to tell you this, men - but he didn't get any help from a Higher Power - he just set his mouse cursor too high, and accidentally hit the Bold button.

[nomadpete]

There ya go agin.  Spoilin a good story with facts.......

Coulda started a whole new religion with all this talk aboot supernatural higher powers!