Democracy vs dictatorship

[Jerry_Atrick]

6 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Aaaah. The keyboard warrier drew his sword and shot himself in the foot with that one.

What's bloody annoying is I was thinking 2020, with 2024 to come, when I typed it.

 

Bloody ageing.. And I recently did have a birthday...

 

And have all but given up drinking!

[facthunter]

You have to continue drinking but not alcohol.  WATER  Adam's Ale it's called. Good stuff.  Nev

[spacesailor]

Until this government put " compulsory medication " in our drinking water .

Years to come , Will tell , if it was wrong. Just like " thalidomide ",

BUT

Then it Will be too late .

spacesailor 

[facthunter]

 It can  cause mottling of teeth but that's not that common. Fluoride occurs naturally in streams. I don't agree with adding it to water as most water is not drunk by people. It's a waste by product of smelting aluminium if I recall correctly.   THAT  happened many years ago spacey. About 50 years I think.  Nev

[spacesailor]

And we are " still compelled " to digest this " deadly poison " .

Make no mistake it on a par with cyanide. ( or very close.  a pin point of it is deadly ).

Then in two generations , will we see the genetic results .

spacesailor

[spacesailor]

BUT 

What if it's happening ' Now ' .

I had a blood test result , with an " anomaly " , so now , more testing to see what the heck is 

amiss .

Including the dreaded trip to the " urologist " . ( for prostrate & kidney tests) .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Would you rather NOT Know and do the follow ups. This sort of thing is why we ARE LIVING LONGER.   Nev

[spacesailor]

I  .  Didn't  ! .

Only made 4 or 5 .

So , who ! .

Revived me , to wake up in the " morgue " .  LoL

spacesailor

[Litespeed]

Spacey, 

 

Obviously you live in a democracy, you have a choice to take medical care or not.

 

Not everyone is so fortunate, esp given it won't cost your house and children's future to be treated. Medicare is like democracy, not perfect but a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

 

The capitalist paradigm still hobbles our system but can patiently be avoided for most.

 

 

It ain't perfect, but better than 99% of the rest.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Spacy, why don't you get a rainwater tank?

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Spacy, why don't you get a rainwater tank?

What!? And drink that stuff that's full of car fumes, smoke particles and whatever has landed on your roof!

[nomadpete]

8 minutes ago, old man emu said:

What!? And drink that stuff that's full of car fumes, smoke particles and whatever has landed on your roof!

Yeah! But most of that stuff is organic! Even car fumes and road rubber can be traced back to organic origins!

[red750]

Unless you manufacture it chemically, it will contain some contaminants, whether from a creek, river, lake, roof or reservoir. Remember, animal excrement washes into your little crystal creek.

[facthunter]

The latter part of a rain shower would be pretty good. "Distilled " water was used to add to batteries. You don't see that now. I haven't heard of manufacturing it."Pureau" tm. is free of all those contaminants. I use it for mixing coolant , topping up batteries and I use it on trips where the local water is not worth the risk but I'm considering using it for all the coffee etc  I consume from now on. Fluoride IS a poison I think we can well do without.

 My wife's Uncle, Glen Walker, wrote and published a book in Jan 1980 "Poison on Tap" condemning its use. I am surprised it's still happening, quite frankly.  Nev

[octave]

Fluoride is a naturally occurring mineral that is in food and in many water supplies (naturally occurring).   Port Fairy and Portlands water supply have a level of fluoride between 0.7 and 1.0 PPM this is NOT added but is naturally occurring.   I have not seen any credible evidence that fluoride is toxic at the levels it appears naturally or the level that is added to water.

 

Four myths about water fluoridation and why they're wrong

[facthunter]

Look further. Opponents have been mercilessly pilloried and lost jobs if they did not desist. I thought as you do but the naturally occurring level does not mean it's safe either.  a level is a level. A Poison is a poison.   Look who supported this article.  Nev

[facthunter]

A lot of the well known European countries have banned it in their water supplies.  Nev

[spacesailor]

The poison in our drinking water is NOT ' naturally ' obtained! . It " was " & still is a mountain of

Aluminium production waste contaminate . Some one , was given a blank cheque to find a place to put it .

That IS why it IS in our our ' drinking water ' , It collects in our body & stays there for your slightly shortened life .

Any other place would be an " environmental disaster "

Any community objecting ' will have extraordinary means ' used against them to adhere to this 

" Dumping policy " .

As was used In N Z .

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, red750 said:

Unless you manufacture it chemically, it will contain some contaminants, whether from a creek, river, lake, roof or reservoir. Remember, animal excrement washes into your little crystal creek.

No no no....

My water is pure from the sky.  Distilled for me by god herself!

[octave]

I am open to the argument about whether fluoride should be added to the water supply or not.  Whilst fluoride like anything else can be toxic in large enough doses this applies to anything. As they say "The dose is the poison"    It is reasonable to question its use but there is a lot of nonsense put about by some people.  I suspect that many people are more concerned about the addition of fluoride to water rather than the fluoride itself.   People I know who are anti-fluoride don't seem to be worried about the fluoride that is in water naturally or for example tea which has high levels.

4 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

It collects in our body & stays there for your slightly shortened life .

 

And yet the average life expectancy continues to grow.

 

 

Look I am not a passionate fluoride advocate however, I have not seen studies to show the ills that some claim.  Since not everywhere in the world fluoridates its water and of course folks who drink only rainwater you would think that epidemiological studies would be able to point to adverse outcomes when comparing populations where water is fluoridated compared to those that are not.  I think this is a reasonable rational position to take. 

 

Anyway, it is one of those subjects that people get passionate about and personally, I will continue to drink water and tea and eat fish etc.

 

[old man emu]

If you want to die from fluoride toxicity you have to ingest a lethal dose.  The lethal dose for most adult humans is estimated at 32 to 64 mg elemental fluoride/kg body weight. Let's go halfway and call it 50 mg/kg body weight. Let our test candidate weigh 100 kg. The lethal dose would be 50mg x 100 = 5000 mgg = 5 gms.

 

 The World Health Organization recommends a level of fluoride from 0.5 to 1.0 mg/L (milligrams per liter). Australian states and territories fluoridating their drinking water supplies within the range of 0.6 to 1.1 milligrams of fluoride per litre (mg/L). Taking the mid-point of that range (8.5 mg), to get a lethal dose from drinking water you would have to drink 5000/8.5 = 588 litres in one episode. You'd die of water intoxication before you got anywhere near fluoride-induced death.

 

The objection to compulsory fluoridation of public water supplies is often an objection to the intrusion of Big Brother, rather than a fear of poisoning by the chemical itself.

[facthunter]

It accumulates OME. No One is  Seriously talking about lethal doses.  Nev

[octave]

To be clear I don't think questioning fluoridation of drinking water is nutty.  There are valid questions about dosages and whether or not the decision to ingest fluoride in water should be taken out of the hands of the individual.  There are folks around who do however make wild claims about fluoride causing just about every illness you can think of. Most of the studies that I have read that are negative about fluoride talk about dose.  I do think that as OME said the "big brother" vibe does upset some people especially because water is such a  basic substance.   There could be legitimate questions about adding anything to food such as iodine to salt. 

 

I wonder if some of the residents of Port Fairy and Portland campaign to get the naturally occurring fluoride filtered out of the water.  

 

Anyway, this could become one of those threads and honestly, I don't have much passion for this subject.  If folks want to filter out the fluoride out of their water that's fine, I would not disparage it   I am not sympathetic to the notion that they should not have to and people who feel they would benefit from fluoride could add it themselves.

 

As always I am open to having my opinion pushed one way or the other by good-quality evidence, especially in epidemiological studies.

 

[pmccarthy]

My wife has bad teeth because where grew up where they drank rainwater and she didnt get the minerals including fluoride that she needed. Everything is a poison if too much is consumed, including water itself.

[spacesailor]

My Great grandkids  ' Still have bad teeth ' and , have lived All their lives with " fluoridation " .

That's the government's big selling " lie. " .

So , no good for teeth , What are the next benefits of fluoridation. 

Just a little on the tip of a needle is enough to kill you .

 

Even a " soap manufacturer " put a known problematic substance into ' washing powder ' .

Made a lot of worker's ' enemic ' 

Then made a lot More ' laundry '  worker's ( housewives).Very sick .

All to make a dollar. 

spacesailor