Democracy vs dictatorship

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, nomadpete said:

some children will still have a high incidence of dental caries because they are drinking more cola than water.

I believe that paediatricians are advising that children not be given anything other than plain milk or water until they are well into Primary School. Fruit juices, while appearing to be healthy are concentrated sources of sugar, which not only rots teeth, but leads to childhood obesity. Soft drinks are clearly the Devils urine. 

 

Perhaps parents should revert to the medieval practice of giving children "small beer". Small beer is a lager or ale that contains a lower amount of alcohol by volume than most others, usually between 0.5% and 2.8%. Small beer was produced in households for consumption by children and by servants. Small beer was also consumed for its nutrition content. The fermentation process reduced the sugar content of the grain ingredients, and sterilized the water it was made from.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I have studied the matter Nev and believe that the more sources an info thing has, the more likely it is to be true.

Just because ( say) a Murdoch site is unreliable with right-wing stuff, it does not mean that it should be always disbelieved.

I know a guy who thinks that the whole media is full of lies, and he seriously thinks Russia is the only country telling the truth.

Personally, I reckon he has descended into nonsense on account of not applying the same standards to Russian propaganda as he has to western propaganda.

[facthunter]

You think that Murdoch will print some truth, some how, some time?  He's been to court to maintain the right to Knowingly print LIES. Every Boyer lecture he GAVE was unconcealed self interest . He backs every war. . IF you want to get the truth on this subject go to sites that have credibility in science and medical matters and aren't pushing an agenda that vested interests do. Not a filthy rich media Mogul. Proven Liars should be treated with the respect they deserve ie NONE.  They've lost any right to it. .You have to EARN it  Nev

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

I believe that paediatricians are advising that children not be given anything other than plain milk or water until they are well into Primary School

My supermarket checkout observations lead me to believe that in some places, the recommendations of experts have little effect on parent's food choices.

[spacesailor]

Someone has mentioned " insects " Also those that dwell ' under the soil. 

That ' poisonous ' water Is used to irrigate our crops & lawns. 

Those tiny ' insects ' will be added to the " Fluoridation trail " .

Same as everything ' small Beer ' included ,  that has the fluoridated water added .

There is No respite from this ! .

It is mandatory.

There are places to go ' nude ' , or anything else you desire. 

BUT  NOT

For refusing to be " fluoridated " .

No ' votes ' accepted. 

spacesailor

[facthunter]

People wouldn't smoke VAPE Gamble speed take drugs or drink excessively IF they listened to good advice.  It's a free country and I'll do what I feel like.. Wipe that silly grin off your face or I'll do it for you.  It's weird "OUT THERE". Nev

[facthunter]

There are places to go Nude but there might be some "different" people there. IF you have nothing on Saturday try the local creek. Did that when I was young.  The Williams River near Dungog.  Nev

[octave]

17 hours ago, spacesailor said:

And has to be  " reverse Osmosis " filtered , which is very expensive

Distillation works.  Home distillation units can be purchased reasonably cheaply.  VEVOR Water Distiller Purifier Pure Water Distiller Filters Water Distillation   $86. Another possibility is to harvest your own rainwater.   I get that you think you should not have to and I do have some sympathy with that idea but to me taking control of the situation is a better way to go.

 

Distilled water never contains fluoride as the distillation process effectively removes fluoride and a host of other contaminants that are harmful to your health. In fact, water distillation is so effective that the process is capable of removing just about anything from water.

 

 

 

[old man emu]

A lot of people like that distilled water that is made in Scotland, but it's a bit brown looking and has a distinctive aftertaste.

[spacesailor]

Including oxygen. 

I believe you can get health problems drinking only  distilled water .

Electrolyte deficiencies,  can cause brittle bones fatigue seizures coma & cardiac arrest. 

So , even my ' cat ' prefers filtered rainwater to tap water .   (  also a different taste from

thunder- storm water to my stored water )

PS. How to distilled water , ' electricity,  gas , diesel boilers,  coal fired range cooker..

spacesailor

Edited December 16, 2023 by spacesailor
A little more !

[octave]

6 minutes ago, old man emu said:

lot of people like that distilled water that is made in Scotland, but it's a bit brown looking and has a distinctive aftertaste.

 

The interesting thing is I often spend time with my friends who all seem to be called Glen. Let's see there is Glen Fiddich Glen Livet and Glen Dronach.  Most of these Glens are quite young let's say 10 to 15 years old! 

[octave]

 I think it is fine to drink distilled water 

Side effects of distilled water: Pros and cons

Aside from its flat taste, distilled water doesn’t provide you with minerals like calcium and magnesium that you get from tap water.

Because you already get most of the minerals you need from your diet, drinking distilled water shouldn’t make you deficient. Still, if you’re going to drink distilled water, it’s a good idea to make sure you get your recommended daily servings of fruits and vegetables.

Depending on where you live, distilled water could be better for you than tap water. If your town’s water is tainted with harmful chemicals or pesticides, you’re safer drinking distilled.

 

I think it is fine to drink distilled water 

[red750]

I only drink tap water in my one cup of coffee per day (occasionally 2). I mainly drink sparkling mineral water.

[Litespeed]

The biggest issue with distilled water is zero electrolytes and salts.

 

It's not the reason most think, we need them in water to easily keep our blood salt levels so nerves can work. We literally run on electric power, no salts no current, no life.

 

Nerves communication is by a Potassium sodium proton exchange at the dendrites- nerve endings. It's a serious medical issue for some particularly the elderly. It's a major cause of serious falls.

 

Yes you can drink it but not all the time.

[octave]

5 minutes ago, Litespeed said:

Yes you can drink it but not all the time.

 

I think the minerals etc. should be covered by fruit and veg.    I think the problem could be that many people don't eat enough fruit and veg.  I am happy to drink rain or tap water.

Edited December 16, 2023 by octave

[old man emu]

Remember the 1998 Sydney water crisis involved the suspected contamination of the water supply system of Greater Metropolitan Sydney by the microscopic pathogens Cryptosporidium and Giardia between July and September 1998?

 

All I remember of it is the catchy little song based on the Muppet's Mahna Mahnama.

 

 Instead of Mahna Mahnama sing "crypto ... sproidium, giardia"

 

 

[facthunter]

That's the reason CHLORINE is added to nearly all tap water. It's another Halide. It's the only way most water systems meet the WHO standards for safety.   Mineral water is not safe to use every day either. You are more likely to get Kidney stones. There are Trace elements and things you do need and they are called essential. Fluoride is not listed as one of them and some farmed products can be grown in deficient soils and lack them.' A good plot of home grown vegetables and fruits in a well composted Garden could add years and health to your life. Same with eggs . Everything has a better taste.  Nev

[onetrack]

We've got double filtration on our tap water, initial filtration is 10 micron spun cotton to catch all the chunky bits, the second filter is 0.5 micron activated carbon, which catches all the nasty bugs as well as reducing some of the mineralisation of the water, filtering out chlorine, lead, and heavy metals.

 

The filtered water tastes much better than the regular tap water - yet our tap water meets WHO health standards. 

 

I think I've mentioned before how we drank rat soup for ages out of a ground-level concrete water tank on the farm where we lived after I started in earthmoving contracting.

The rats fell into the tank by the multiple dozens, after a rat guard fell off the intake pipe from the big shed after a storm and we didn't notice it was missing. The rats were after a drink, they jumped in, and eventually drowned because they couldn't climb out.

 

Didn't seem to do too much damage to us, but I guess a few people reckon I've got some damaged brain cells today. We did drink a lot of tea, and boiled a sizeable percentage of the water we drank.

[nomadpete]

I'm dragging the democracy / Dictatorship issue into the flouride debate. It seems that most of us favour democracy.

 

In light of that, fluoridation of drinking water can be viewed as a democratic choice.

 

Democratically speaking, although there will always be some who disagree with a decision, in a democracy we accept the will of the majority. The majority  seem to approve of fluoride in water.

 

I personally apply that notion to the fluoridation debate. I accept the system for everyone else. But since I think there are some risks from blindly trusting the cheapest contractors to maintain town water quality and additives I take my own responsibility for my drinking water.

[facthunter]

Fluoride was not democratically done. Nobody was ever allowed a vote on it to change the outcome. Its state administered mass medication where hardly any of the water goes to address the problem. A lot of people don't drink water. Worst still it was a by product of aluminium smelting and it was a waste product hard to  dispose of turned into a profit maker. for  the most gov''t subsidised Industry we have. They got electricity at almost zero cost and WE were never allowed to KNOW what the Price to the Smelters WAS.   Nev

[Litespeed]

2 hours ago, octave said:

 

I think the minerals etc. should be covered by fruit and veg.    I think the problem could be that many people don't eat enough fruit and veg.  I am happy to drink rain or tap water.

Not quite, without dissolved salts in water you will quickly be deficient. The imbalance from water quickly overcomes the bodies ability to draw it from food. Esp in hot weather and physical exertions.

 

That's why athletes need to dose on electrolytes to stop cramping and nerve signal failure. This can include even a heart attack in a otherwise healthy person.

It's generally not the heat but exhausting the available salts that's the killer..

[nomadpete]

Just now, facthunter said:

Fluoride was not democratically done. Nobody was ever allowed a vote on it to change the outcome. Its state administered mass medication

 

Agree.

 

However, in a democracy it is entirely possible to make it a democratic political issue if enough concerned people make their feelings known to their political reps.

 

There simply hasn't been a large enough percentage of voters writing to their reps or signing petitions or talking to 60 minutes, has there?

 

Democracy (and political survival instincts) runs on statistics. Any issue that has the numbers gets a run when election time rolls around.

 

The punters have some power. Not near as much as the lobbying sponsors, but still some power and stuff like fluoridation wouldn't  upset the fossil lobby so should easily be used as a vote swayer if the public don't  want it.

[nomadpete]

9 minutes ago, facthunter said:

it was a by product of aluminium smelting

True ? When I googled (dubious tho that is) it was mentioned that flourine was mined to add to the smelting process.

 

Nevertheless I agree there was an incentive by smelters to find a way to get rid of any excess of it.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Personally, I reckon you guys are weird.What could possibly be wrong with adding a small amount of fluoride?

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Fluoride was not democratically done.

It was a sort of arm's length thing. We voted in governments of various persuasions and handed over several tasks to them because they had better organisational abilities. (That was as it was back in the day.) One of the things we handed to them was responsibility for public health. Treating the water with fluoride was aimed at improving dental health, just as chlorinating the same water was.

 

Now we have reached the Age of "You can't do that", wherein anyone with a grievance or conspiracy theory can have the full attention of the Media to get a response.