Electric car thread

[spenaroo]

8 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I was driving behind one of these yesterday: https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/twizy-2/

 

As a sporty little town runabout, I would think they are hard to beat.. Not sure how much shopping you can get in one - maybe have to go for the two seater. But it looked fun, and the acceleration was brisk...

100% Think that we need to ask ourselves a question on vehicle size and safety.

in most cities you can get away with a car that goes 80km/h (my MG midget doesnt like going over this. will do 100km/h but doesnt like it)

we already have this with 50cc scooters the delivery drivers use.

so why not individual cars like Japans Kei class.

 

rather then larger cars to meet 5 star safety standards at highway speeds

why not encourage smaller city car concepts. these exist in many countries and are often transport for teens without a full licence.

its not a compromise in safety in a low speed collision

Edited May 29 by spenaroo

[facthunter]

Hybrids are for people who want a bet each way. Has the  disadvantages of both. Nev

[red750]

Yahoo Finance AU
EV prices in Australia drop $20,000 'almost overnight' as expert forecasts further doom
Increased competition, particularly from Chinese manufacturers, has seen electric vehicles plummet in value.

 

The price of some electric vehicles (EVs) in Australia has plunged by as much as $20,000 "almost overnight" as increased competition sees manufacturers fight for every buyer. With government initiatives and warnings over the effects of climate change, EVs have never been more popular.

 

Purchases more than doubled in 2023 compared to 2022, which continued the trend of sales doubling year-on-year in Australia since 2020. Despite increased demand, car expert Paul Maric told Yahoo Finance prices might not have bottomed out just yet.

 

The Nissan Leaf went from $50,990 to $39,990, the Polestar 2 2024 Long Range Single Motor fell from $71,400 to $58,990, and the Tesla Model Y dropped from $72,000 to $55,000.

 

Polestar appears to be the most affected by price drops, with four out of its eight cars available in Australia falling between $10,000 and $15,000, according to Gizmodo.

[old man emu]

10 minutes ago, red750 said:

Increased competition, particularly from Chinese manufacturers, has seen electric vehicles plummet in value.

Interesting word choice there - "value" where "price" would be more accurate.

 

However, being serious, The asking price for anything depends on the balance between Supply and Demand. At the moment supply is far exceeding demand, said to be caused by the Chinese dumping EV overproduction everywhere. At the same time, statistics do in fact show growth in demand possibly in the single digit percentages, but definitely not matching the increase in supply.

 

Marketplace Demand for vehicles is a funny thing.

 

Let's say you buy any sort of vehicle in 2024. Let's say that you usual practice has been to retain a vehicle for five years before replacing it. That means that, barring a need to replace the 2024 vehicle for any unexpected reason, your level of demand until the end of 2028 will be zero, then your demand will increase because you are actively seeking a new vehicle. So, for sales in 2025 to increase by one over 2024 sales, two vehicles will have to be replaced - one to account for your purchase and one to be the "growth factor" purchase. That is an increase in demand in 2025 of 200% over 2024. 

 

It is most interesting that governments of the Western democracies have suddenly abandoned their capitalist ideals and taken on, with both hands, the dreaded centralist government ideals where the government dictates what will and will not be produced. They have not done it by taking control if the means of manufacture, but by laws which they are the only members of society who make the laws.

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Happen to those Old steamers .

The government slapped a weight tax on vehicles. 

Knowing water has to be carried by the steaming vehicles.  100 mph in a steam car ! . Nice .

spacesailor

PS : why all the fuss to get the Old " tram " back .

So much easier to convert bases to " trolley " bus and 

Not dig up the roads , making wheel traps for cyclists. 

spacesailor

Edited May 29 by spacesailor
A little mre

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, red750 said:

EV prices in Australia drop $20,000 'almost overnight'

That's great news. And it's a faster price adjustment than I expected.

As always, the early adopters pay more for the new toys. Now it is approaching affordable for the punters!

 

A rolling stone gathers no moss.

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

So, for sales in 2025 to increase by one over 2024 sales, two vehicles will have to be replaced - one to account for your purchase and one to be the "growth factor" purchase. That is an increase in demand in 2025 of 200% over 2024. 

No problem. Presently Australia  has less than 10% EV's so a 200% increase from that is not astronomical.

[kgwilson]

Governments are having to set the rules as legacy vehicle manufacturers care only about profit and not the damage their fossil fuelled products are doing to the environment. Practically all legacy auto makers are actively lobbying governments to reduce or delay their emissions reduction programs to allow them to continue to generate high emissions through continued ICE vehicle production.

 

Toyota is one of the worst in this respect. They have been producing hybrids for over 20 years but have been brought screaming and kicking in to the EV era. Their hybrids are also nowhere near as efficient as they claim. Now as they finally realise their campaign is failing they have partnered with BYD to produce their EVs. Toyota seems destined to fall from the worlds largest auto maker to an also ran like GM but unlike GM they won't get Japanese government bailouts.

[Jerry_Atrick]

It is very sad that a nurse's salary is not high enough to pay state housing rent. Is Australia harking back to the ways of the mother country?

[Jerry_Atrick]

18 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Granddaughter has bought an " MG  " hybrid. 

But cannot  charge from home ( state housing ) ,

As it puts her power I'll too high . Only running petrol. 

Nurses wage are not high enough to pay " market " rent

And higher purchase for that ' essential '  transport need.

spacesailor

Previous post in response to this.

[pmccarthy]

In my day nurses drove Triumph Heralds, which was an admission of poverty.

[facthunter]

Not everyone wants to drive a car for making others envious. Work out what cars cost you over your lifetime. A MAJOR expense unless it's TAX deductible.  Nev

[kgwilson]

I owned 2 Triumph Heralds in the early 70s, one a car & one  a wagon. I never had mechanical issues with either though the bodies did rust, but then so did all cars of the era. Easiest engine to work on as well, given the entire front end hinged over the front. I was a Hang Gliding nutter at the time & we got 4 gliders on the roof & 4 in the car & it still went up lots of inclines in top gear due to the long stroke engine. Not an admission of poverty at all, rather a prudent and cost effective form of transport..

[octave]

I am happy for people to critique this video as long as they do so with verifiable sources not just their gut feeling.   If any of the assumptions in this video are wrong then please explain why.

 

 

 

 

 

Sources https://theworld.org/stories/2012-11-... https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.ph... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpjack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extract... http://www.greenenergyfutures.ca/epis... https://electricityplans.com/kwh-kilo... Tesla Model 3 range-efficiency edge is a serious market strength https://rhg.com/research/preliminary-... https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.ph... https://www.epa.gov/ghgreporting/ghgr... https://www.wpowerproducts.com/news/h... https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-i... https://www.globenewswire.com/news-re... https://rbnenergy.com/fuel-permian-dr... https://www.matec-conferences.org/art... https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/q... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of... https://www.epa.gov/energy/about-us-e... https://www.c2es.org/content/renewabl... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-2... http://www.labchem.com/tools/msds/msd... https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphi... https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/wells/ https://theodora.com/pipelines/world_... https://viirs.skytruth.org/apps/heatm... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete... https://science.howstuffworks.com/env... https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/o... https://evannex.com/blogs/news/debunk... https://www.fractracker.org/2017/12/g... https://smallcaps.com.au/lithium-stoc... https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx... https://oceanconservancy.org/blog/201... https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/glob... https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/i... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/... https://www.npr.org/2019/04/02/709131... https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-no... https://primis.phmsa.dot.gov/comm/Fac... https://www.ruhrpumpen.com/en/markets... https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/o...
 

 

[old man emu]

Haven't got the time. I learned not to flog dead horses long ago.

[octave]

So how do you know what you say is supported by the evidence? Or is evidence not important     My gut feeling or emotional feeling on any issue is worth zero. Facts are king.   You may notice that there are issues that I do not comment on. This is because although I may have an emotional feeling about something I realize that I don't have sound knowledge and I am not willing to do the research. In these cases, I just shut up.  I am happy for people to give their unresearched opinions as long as they acknowledge that it is just an opinion .

You don't have time time to watch a well-researched clip with references but you have plenty of time to pour scorn on new technologies.  

I always watch videos that people post as well as articles that present contrary view to the one I hold. I do this because I am open-minded but also I do like to know the arguments of my opponents. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, octave said:

You don't have time time to watch a well-researched clip with references but you have plenty of time to pour scorn on new technologies.  

In case you haven't comprehended some of my posts, I don't scorn the concept of EVs. It's the zealotry of the proponents I scorn.

[octave]

51 minutes ago, old man emu said:

In case you haven't comprehended some of my posts, I don't scorn the concept of EVs. It's the zealotry of the proponents I scorn.

on both sides?

[kgwilson]

Fully Charged & Everything Electric have been scorned to death by the UK right wing press for several years and every time their claims are debunked. It doesn't stop them though, probably because their major shareholders and supporters are invested in the fossil fuel & mining industries right through refining, transport and the legacy auto makers who are desperately trying to stop or delay governments emissions reductions targets by any and all means at their disposal.

[old man emu]

And at a time when government services to the people, e.g. the NHS, are collapsing from lack of financial support, the Left wingers are screaming for the chance to plunder the public purse in order to introduce a major infrastructure change at an unrealistic rate. NOT THAT THE CHANGE CAN'T BE MADE, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

[facthunter]

Nero Fiddled while Rome burns.  Truth sets your mind free.. You'll be in deep $#!t if you  don't question most of what is presented or spoken .  Nev.

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

And at a time when government services to the people, e.g. the NHS, are collapsing from lack of financial

Wait a minute, I m not sure we have NHS in this country. Isn't that a Great Britain malaise?

 

Wow. Can you get a new EV on NHS?

 

That would be nice.

 

(Basically, what has NHS got to do with EV's, or EV propaganda?)

Edited June 2 by nomadpete

[facthunter]

I believe Police have a charge called Assault & Battery. There may be some implied Connection.  Nev

Edited June 2 by facthunter

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I believe Police have a charge called Assault & Battery. There may be some implied Connection.  Nev

Matters are all heard in Circuit Court.

[red750]

Teslas are arriving in Australia at the rate of 2,000 per month, but no-one is buying them. The storage facility in Melbourne now has 6,000 Teslas in storage and they are going nowhere.