Electric car thread

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, onetrack said:

But none of these new EV products from America have reached a level of acceptance and profitability that are sustainable.

Quite simply the reason is cultural. The Americans crave "BIG". They had to be dragged, kicking and screaming from their post WWII Yank tanks into what they call "medium-size" passenger cars, but we called "family-sized" when the oil crisis hit in 1973. The majority of EVs are typically small vehicles that are the norm in Europe and Asia, including Australia and New Zealand.

[red750]

Don't scream at me for this....

 

[kgwilson]

The Tesla Model Y is the largest selling car of any type in the world. That says a lot. It beat the Toyota Corolla off the No 1 slot it has held for years.

[facthunter]

That's certainly worthwhile noting considering the negative stuff that's hurled at them constantly.   Nev

[old man emu]

The Y model seems to be a car that got it right. Soon after its original release, Volkswagen Group Chair, Herbert Diess, wrote about the Model Y: "This car is for us in many aspects (not in all!) a reference: user experience, updatability, driving features, performance of the top of the range models, charging network, range. Big advantage: Model Y was/is thought through as an electric car – as is the ID.3. Many of our competitors still using their ICE platforms. The result: They aren’t getting the best EVs."

 

Like any first generation object, the Y has had some glitches which seem to relate to the bells and whistles and not the basic functions of a transportation device, but TESLA seems to be reacting quickly to identified problems through software updates. One thing that I cannot accept is the minimum, two car-length following distance programmed into the current TESLA Vision system. When a vehicle is moving, it should not be closer that the distance required (on average) to stop from the speed it is travelling at. That means that the faster the vehicle is going, the longer the distance from the vehicle in front. It would not be difficult to program the software controlling that feature to adjust the following distance according to the speed. Obviously, the software would have to accept an average road/tyre Coefficient of Friction and have a warning system to tell the driver to override the system when on wet, icy or unsealed surfaces.

[facthunter]

Presumably the vehicle in front is going at about the same speed you are and the response to  something changing would be near instant. What throws it out of kilt is when another passing vehicle cuts in real close to you and the vehicle behind is not expecting you to use full brake "out of the Blue". Nev

[kgwilson]

Following distance is a feature built in to all cars with adaptive cruise control. Mine has 3 levels represented by green bars on the graphic which displays the car in front and mine behind, 1 being the closest & 3 the furthest away. They seem to change with speed. I usually set it on 2. 3 seems to be way further than necessary & 1 is a bit close at 110kmh. 1 is OK at 60kmh.

[spacesailor]

My granddaughters ' MG ' also has that 7 year warranty, even though it's an " IC " MOTOR. 

Hydro generating  is actively ' Discourage ' in NZ . Friends were fined lots of dollars for putting a

' water-wheel generator ' .

Then they copped another big fine for not having an ' enclosed ' toilet. 

One of the two ' men ' had a ' walker ' to move about . The other needed a powered " positive airway " apparatus  Hence their 24 volt generation..  (  aircraft surplus. )

spacesailor

 

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Presumably the vehicle in front is going at about the same speed you are and the response to  something changing would be near instant

Agreed. It would delete the distance covered during the response time of a driver who did not have that automatic system.

 

BUT!!! What is "a car length" in metres? The average length of a car is 4.9 metres. That figure comes from averaging the length of popular vehicle types spanning the Australian new car market. For the sake of making the calculations easier, let's say that it is 5 metres. That means that 2 car lengths is 10 metres. From 60 kph, with full wheel lock, it takes about 16 to 18 metres to completely stop on the average urban road.

 

I know that few modern cars do not have ABS braking, so brake lock up does not occur, but the stopping distance of and ABS-equipped vehicle is much the same as one without. 

 

 

[facthunter]

With equal braking and both operating at virtually the same time any existing distance of separation will be preserved. Anti skid will use less distance on dry tar but worse on gravel, IF the driver is  SKILLED. with braking technique  and the front to rear braking balance is good. That's a bit of an IF. Nev

[kgwilson]

37 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

My granddaughters ' MG ' also has that 7 year warranty, even though it's an " IC " MOTOR. 

Hydro generating  is actively ' Discourage ' in NZ . Friends were fined lots of dollars for putting a

' water-wheel generator ' .

Then they copped another big fine for not having an ' enclosed ' toilet. 

One of the two ' men ' had a ' walker ' to move about . The other needed a powered " positive airway " apparatus  Hence their 24 volt generation..  (  aircraft surplus. )

spacesailor

 

I don't know where you got this information. My neighbour and I had a small hydro generator for running pumps back in the 1980s West of Ngaruawahia. There are thousands of private hydro schemes in NZ. It is a hilly country with lots of rainfall so it is a no brainer. 85% of NZs energy is from renewable sources and about 60% is generated from hydro electric systems.

[spacesailor]

Back in the 1970s , at the " upper hut " end of the Rimutaka hill .

And , only a 24 volt supply for " medicinal purposes .  (  positive airways pump  ) .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

With equal braking and both operating at virtually the same time any existing distance of separation will be preserved.

Such would be one unique possibility in a probability distribution  Not a sensible tactic in Real World situations.

 

Increasing the separation distance increases the probability of successful stopping before a rear-end collision. 

[red750]

Driverless Jaguar in US.

 

 

 

[facthunter]

OME I did specify the conditions. Of course extra distances will reduce collisions but what happens is people truck into the space when you allow that much room and THAT throws the system into  non anticipated hard braking when the traffic is moving along fine.

[red750]

EV with lithium-free battery

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

what happens is people truck into the space when you allow that much room and THAT throws the system into  non anticipated hard braking when the traffic is moving along fine.

Which means the system is faulty. The solution is to go back to the original thinking of what the system is intended to do, then throw scenarios like the one you describe at it to see how it responds. I have a friend who was working on the periphery of Volvo's collision avoidance system. It was trialed in Australia and found nt to be able to decide what to do when a kangaroo hopped across the path of the car from one side of the road to another.

 

I was wondering today as I drove the 60-odd Ks home from Dubbo, "What steering input would such a system make if a kangaroo did jump across the road?"  A driver experienced with the motion of a roo would steer around behind it, but a collision avoidance system would see that such a move would cause the vehicle to cross the marked centreline of the road, so it might steer to the left, into the projected path of the roo. Also, I'd hate to see what such a car would do if it was rolling along at 100 ks and came up on a wombat waddling across the road. Would it try an emergency stop?

 

I really don't want to bag the system. We must remember that it is in its development stage. Maybe the unique situational problems will be solved; maybe not. One problem solving difficulty I see is that the software designers are not likely to have had the driving experiences that exist in Australia with regard to wild animals around our roads.

[facthunter]

You CAN de activate that function. but IF another vehicle or motorcycle goes there it does what it's designed to do .Ie Give you MORE space.   Nev

[kgwilson]

3 hours ago, red750 said:

EV with lithium-free battery

Sodium ion battery technology has been around for a couple of years  now and CATL, the worlds largest battery manufacturer is again at the forefront of this technology. Sodium is half of the chemical composition of ordinary salt and is everywhere. The BYD Seagull is also powered by a Sodium ion battery. Up until recently the problem with the technology was energy density. Now this is approaching the density of LFP batteries, common in EVs but is still a bit behind NMC lithium batteries. Manufacture costs are about 30% cheaper than lithium based batteries.

 

Chinese brand Zeekr who produce high end EVs have already got a sodium ion battery car out in China with their own Sodium battery in the model 007 with a 100kWH capacity and 870km range. Zeeker is owned by Geely who also own Volvo and Polestar as well as a number of Chinese brands.

[old man emu]

I was thinking about what you said here:

10 hours ago, facthunter said:

what happens is people truck into the space when you allow that much room

and I realised that you would not have been able to say that if you had never experienced it happening. That leads me to this:

 

I frequently drove in metropolitan peak hour traffic, but always kept a goodly gap  between my car and the one in front. EXPERIENCE told me that there was a high likelihood that someone would overtake in the lane to my right and dive into that space - shortening my "happy space". Therefore, based on that experience, my strategy, when it happened, was to slow to allow my "happy space" to redevelop, then increase my speed to be consistent with the flow of traffic. It was because I expected that "cut in" to occur, that when it did happen, it was not unexpected.  Did my method slow my overall trip time? No, because come the next set of traffic lights I could stop a bee's dick off the bumper of the car in front.

 

The key to defeating the unexpected is to have your mind drive ahead of you as far as you can see.  One of the assessments under the Hendon system is a thing called the "Narrative Drive". The student drives along giving a continuous narrative of what can be seen that could infringe on the passage of the vehicle. That includes describing things in the short, medium and long distances as well as noting and interpreting the movements of other vehicles. It is a really good method for getting your head "out of the cockpit". Do the Narrative Drive a couple of times and it becomes your mental driving mentor.

[spacesailor]

Unless that ' dickhead ' , stopped you getting the ' green light, that they just squeaked through. 

Then you have to bide your time for the full sequence of lights to get back to the green. 

spacesailor

[old man emu]

2 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Unless that ' dickhead ' , stopped you getting the ' green light, that they just squeaked through

But experience is gained over time, and part of that experience is learning that patience is a virtue. The dickhead can't manage to get all the greens.

[Litespeed]

I'm am with you OME.

 

The  "narrative drive/ride/fly" is a live saver. 

I have used this method my whole life and it's saved me many times.

 

I also call it "piano theory". Unless a piano falls from the sky and hits me in the back of the head, it's my fault for not seeing it coming. No amount of wingeing helps when your mushed or dead. They don't say at the funeral " it's ok, it wasn't his fault, your still a mushed meatbag "

 

That works for any moving machinery, situational awareness is king. Always stay far ahead of the machine, constantly scanning for the unexpected, expected and damn idiots human or animal. That also means drive/ride/fly/sail to the conditions.

 

Peeps who allow others to determine their safety are generally called the corpse.

[red750]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

The dickhead can't manage to get all the greens.

And you'll probably catch up with them at the next red light.

[onetrack]

Quote

No, because come the next set of traffic lights I could stop a bee's dick off the bumper of the car in front

I was always taught when pulling up behind another vehicle, to leave enough room to be able to see the where the rear tyres of the car in front, touched the road.

There's excellent advice from a Pommy driving instructor in the link below.

 

https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/resources/how-much-distance-should-you-leave-when-you-stop-behind-another-vehicle/