Electric car thread

[old man emu]

44 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

can you pls let us know what the etymology of woke (as in wokeism) is..

 

Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights. Woke has also been used as shorthand for some ideas of the American Left involving identity politics and social justice, such as white privilege and reparations for slavery in the United States.

 

As with all words, their meaning changes over time. For example, we all know that "gay" has changed from a simple description of an emotion to a description of a certain sexual orientation.  The meaning of "woke" originally simply meant to be well-informed or 'aware', especially in a political or cultural sense.

 

A can be seen in the diagram (if it can be read),

 

from about 2018 the meaning changed to an insult used by opponents of progressive social movements who were often using the term mockingly or sarcastically, implying that "wokeness" was an insincere form of performative activism (activism that is done to increase one's social capital rather than because of one's devotion to a cause). The term is used to mock "overrighteous liberalism". In this insulting sense, "woke" means to following an intolerant and moralising ideology.

 

[octave]

32 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I think that the reason I arc up about EVs is not the technology, but the way adoption of EVs has been woven into Wokeism.

I wouldn't say that caring about air quality is purely the preserve of the "woke"  I also wouldn't say that wanting to be free from Middle East oil is "woke" 

I think these issues get so polarised.  I am sure there are EV owners who are a little overly enthusiastic about their new purchase. Often this is a reaction to misinformation that is put about, often by vested interests.   I am in an FB enthusiast's group although I do not own one.   It amazes me that some IC car folks join the group purely to troll and argue.   

 

I think something that bothers EV owners is when things happen like a car fire and people jump in and say "Yeah I heard it was an EV" and then it is found to be IC and they suddenly lose interest. When there is a widespread power cut and people comment about EVs not being able to be charged they disregard petrol pumps being out of action.   Tired old cartoons or memes suggesting that EVs are coal-powered.  Sudden concern about the environmental cost of mining for batteries but no problem with drill for oil, transporting it vast distances, and using a considerable amount of electricity in the refining process.

 

Sometimes people (on both sides) stereotype the other.    All sorts of people have bought an EV from across the political spectrum. Many EV owners own an IC as well. My son is not a tofu-eating hippy and his other car is an IC motorsport car which he competes in regularly. 

 

I don't really think the Tesla Cyber Truck is aimed at the  "woke"

 

 

A bit of a problem these days is that everything gets slotted into the "culture wars"  EVs are just a technology. 

 

These divisions are stoked by the media for clicks. 

 

 

I think electricity will more than likely be how we propel our vehicles in a few years. The electricity may be stored in batteries or come from a fuel cell or some other new technology.   

I want to be part of the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Thanks OME.. It is consistent with what I though.. Interesitngly, its recent insulting meaning has been a hijacking of the meaning of the word by the political right to means, exactly what they are - an intolerant and moralising ideology - and latched onto by the media and has hence seeped into ubiquity. To take a similar word, "poof" is an insulting reference to homosexuals. I think it is accepted that if we use the word, "poof", we mean it in a derogatory way to reference hoosexual, or gay people.

 

In the same way, Woke is now an insulting reference to "an intolerant and moralising ideology.." except that it's real meaning is more extneded to what is referred to the left side of politics. Othewise, it would equally apply to the right wing as being Woke because of their intolerant and moralising ideology. The problem is, people who are genuinely woke - alert to discrimination - especially racial, and then alert to other social ills - don't have a word - at least in common parlance - to describe them. The result, they have been grouped into this new meaning of the word, whereas those who were gay in its old meaning do have many common words for which they can take a label.

 

So, yes, when the term Woke is used in its newest meaning, I am offended, as there is nothing for me to identify with that represents my beliefs, or moral and ideological standards.

[old man emu]

14 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

people who are genuinely woke - alert to discrimination - especially racial, and then alert to other social ills - don't have a word - at least in common parlance - to describe them.

Actually, they do have a word that has been around in English since the 1610's - alert.

 

Alert: "on the watch," 1610s, from French alerte "vigilant" (17c.), from prepositional phrase à l'erte "on the watch," from Italian all'erta "to the height." The second element is from erta "lookout, high tower,"

 

Perhaps a better word to describe people who act to question the rights and wrong of a situation is from 1718: "leery" : "knowing, wide-awake, untrusting, suspicious, alert,", as in 'He's a bit leery of that proposition". Leery is likely to have developed from "leer" 1520s, "to look obliquely", probably from Middle English noun ler "cheek," If so, the notion is probably of "looking askance", also from the 1520s, "sideways, out of the corner of the eye", or over the cheek.

[octave]

58 minutes ago, old man emu said:

implying that "wokeness" was an insincere form of performative activism (activism that is done to increase one's social capital rather than because of one's devotion to a cause).

So a problem I see here is that there is a judgment call as to someone's motives and I would argue that could be difficult to discern.   I argued here a few years back for same-sex marriage.    To some, I could have been dismissed as being woke. How can anyone know my motivation?  How can anyone tell if I argued this way merely to enhance my social capital? 

 

To me the word woke is quite a lazy word.   No need to debate details just call someone woke.

 

The term "woke"  seems to be most often used by Trump and Desantis etc.  For me, this does not add value to the word. 

[facthunter]

OME Does your last line make you beyond criticism?. Do ALL people who choose an EV have an attitude of I'm all right Jack?  IF you drink chardonnay are you Passe? I say NO to all three..  Nev

[octave]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

implying that "wokeness" was an insincere form of performative activism (activism that is done to increase one's social capital rather than because of one's devotion to a cause).

So a problem I see here is that there is a judgment call as to someone's motives and I would argue that could be difficult to discern.   I argued here a few years back for same-sex marriage. marriage referendum.     I argued strongly in favour. I would suspect that the far right would deem me to be woke no matter what my motivation was.   For those who believe woke refers to someone who holds a position merely for "social capital" I just wonder who determines someone's motives?  My question would be, on this issue am I woke?

[facthunter]

It's a TAG or labelling exercise to negate your further input value. .Manipulation .Nev

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

OME Does your last line make you beyond criticism?

I'm losing track of the paths of this thread. Which post was that "last line" in?

 

Regarding being described as "woke". Don't forget that the way the way the word was originally used in the African-American Vernacular English. In AAVE, awake is often rendered as woke, as in, “I was sleeping, but now I’m woke.” So we are looking at the word "awake". In Australian Vernacular English, we can use "awake" to mean "alert to, or aware of" in a sentence such as "I 'm awake to your tricks".

 

To my mind there is nothing wrong with being "woke" to social wrongs. Interestingly, we don't hear much about people being woke to social correctness. Where we get into the pejorative use of the noun "wokeism" is when those who are woke about a matter become unreasonably overzealous about their causes and as a result of that overzealousness impinge on the normal behaviours of those not so zealous. In other words, I don't mind your slogan chanting and placard waving, but don't get in my face yelling your slogan, and don't hit me over the head with your placard.

[facthunter]

OME, I couldn't find it either. I've NEVER known what "woke" is  and it seems that it's able to be many things, so It's Fairly BS.. Could you be an Aeroplane pilot without knowing what it is? . I can't see how.   Nev

[old man emu]

9 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I've NEVER known what "woke" is  and it seems that it's able to be many things, so It's Fairly BS.

I wouldn't say that being "woke" is BS. A better word is 'aware", or not having your head in the sand. 

 

Wokeism is forcing that awareness onto others at ridiculous levels, and is the secular equivalent to religious fundamentalism.

[nomadpete]

The point here is that 'woke' now has no relevance to awake/aware.

 

The modern 'Woke' is derogatory - used to imply 'mentally incompetent' or insincerely misusing false egaletarianism.

Or as a dismissive political anti everything 'left' statement.

The yanks have probably never heard the saying "I'm awake up to you" .

[spacesailor]

This " electric car " thread ! .

Seems remarkably like what we went through changing from our old , " STEAM era. 

Who would have thought going from ,

" external combustion " to " internal combustion " ,

Would be so hard ! .

Just like the older " horseless carriage " versus the horse & carriage. 

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

To a Republican everything about EV's is conveniently labelled 'woke'.

 

Rationally though, simpler machines make less trouble than complex ones.

The present pinnacle of the infernal combustion engine relies on nassive complexities. Somewhat surprisingly they are more reliable than ever before (both our cars are over 12 years old and over 300,000k and still going fine), I expect my next car (EV) will surpass that because it is less complex.

 

Onetrack makes a good point about the stats for battery life.

In our country many many people keep cars for 300 to 400 thousand k's. It looks like most other countries have lower mileage on their cars, so at present we don't quite know how the batteries are performing for our particular useage profile. Time will tell.

[facthunter]

Electric is a massive change in principle. It's NO combustion. Always been there in the form of lightning , st elmo's fire, electrolysis and the galvanic process & static electricity to quote a few examples.  Nev

Edited January 20 by facthunter

[nomadpete]

I was worried about the intrusion of electricity into our personal transport. Everybody knows electricity is very dangerous. That's why it's used in the Electric chair.

So, following Octave's fine example, I looked up all things electrical as applied to automobiles. The only reliable reference I could find in my library is the Ford Accessories Book (pub 1920).

 

It seems that Henry recommends the use of electricity - to power a new kind of lighting that he says is better and safer than carbide lighting.

 

So, if Henry Ford says electricity is safe in motor cars, that's good enough for me.

 

Research is a wonderful thing!

[Jerry_Atrick]

10 hours ago, old man emu said:

Actually, they do have a word that has been around in English since the 1610's - alert.

 

Alert: "on the watch," 1610s, from French alerte "vigilant" (17c.), from prepositional phrase à l'erte "on the watch," from Italian all'erta "to the height." The second element is from erta "lookout, high tower,"

 

Perhaps a better word to describe people who act to question the rights and wrong of a situation is from 1718: "leery" : "knowing, wide-awake, untrusting, suspicious, alert,", as in 'He's a bit leery of that proposition". Leery is likely to have developed from "leer" 1520s, "to look obliquely", probably from Middle English noun ler "cheek," If so, the notion is probably of "looking askance", also from the 1520s, "sideways, out of the corner of the eye", or over the cheek.

These words have definitions of a general nature; I can be alert to anything - I can be especially alert to, say bushfires in th summer. While it is a social problem, it is hardly a social injustice problem (yeah, you could argue that many lower-socio economic people live in areas suscptible to bushfires, but I believe Brian Naylor of Channel 9 News succumbed - I don't think bushfires really care about social justice).

 

Similarly, in your example of leery, it is a generic term - I may be "... leery of that proposition... " that we take off in that PA28 that is 30% overloaded with a CoG near the tail..

 

My point is there is no longer a term in common parlance that desctibes those alert (or leery) to discrimination, especially racial, as its original definition is, and then it transformed definition to social injustice in general. The transmogrification to:

6 hours ago, old man emu said:

Wokeism is forcing that awareness onto others at ridiculous levels, and is the secular equivalent to religious fundamentalism.

or

 

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

In this insulting sense, "woke" means to following an intolerant and moralising ideology.

And, that has created a vacuum for the term that woke originally meant. Which means, if you raise an issue of social injustice, or are passionate about it, you ar labelled woke as being somehow irrational and used to shut down any debate.

 

But even the meanings you gave to reflect what Woke means today is not the whole story. By the definitions, MAGA has to be Woke. By what we feel are reasonable standards, they are irrational and it is an intolerant and moralising ideology. Bt the last video posted on the Trump thread, it would be hard to argue that they are not forcing the awareness onto others at ridiculous levels and doesn't include religious fundamentalism. But even those opposed to MAGA don't label them Woke, because, well it would be absurd. Why? Because the true meaning of Wokein its latest sense  is narrowed to people who are raising social injustices - it retains definitional link to its original meaning.

 

As I'm not a trendsetter in the world of linguistics (nor anything else for that matter), then I am identifing myself as Woke in its original or transformed meaning; not it's current meansing. And because it is now used to unilaterally insult my value system, I guess I do find that insulting.

 

[Edit] - Back to EVs 😉

 

Edited January 20 by Jerry_Atrick

[pmccarthy]

Of course climate alarmism is woke! Like all the other BS.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Words are easy

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Words are easy

Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis isn't. Nor is Floccinaucinihilipilification.

[Jerry_Atrick]

They're not hard if you chunk them up...  Learned two new words today; thanks.

 

[facthunter]

Be Alert . The world needs Lerts.   Also, you can have your own beliefs, but not your own FACTS.  Nev

[old man emu]

13 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

And, that has created a vacuum for the term that woke originally meant. Which means, if you raise an issue of social injustice, or are passionate about it, you ar labelled woke as being somehow irrational and used to shut down any debate.

The original meaning as used by Afro-Americans related to being cognisant of the injustices they suffered as a result of the WASP culture. When first used, it was asking people to recognise the inequities Afro-Americans suffered, and for the rest of the American society to do something to alleviate those inequities.

 

As society changed in other areas, sometimes called revolutions such as Women's Liberation, the acceptance of same sex relationships, and dietary choices, the original idea expressed by the word succumbed to radicalisation and radicalisation's sibling, extremism. You also have to take into account the promotion of the idea of "Me. First, last and every other time. If you do not accept my being upset by something, then you are not "woke" to salving my ego."

[onetrack]

Quote

I'm not a trendsetter in the world of linguistics

Of course you are! A quick scan of many of your posts brings up a pile of strange new words such as "meansing".

[facthunter]

Probably intending Meanings. Easy to do.  Nev