Electric car thread

[facthunter]

The market will sort itself out and adapt. Solar, wind and storage in some of the remoter areas will be a whole new ball game. Nation wide grids are not necessary. The West has never been connected to the East.  Nev

[kgwilson]

I've had a grid connect 2kW solar system since 2013. Currently I charge my EV only at off peak which is all night after 10pm till 6am & all weekend.

 

Before my EV purchase I analysed my normal driving habits and only go more than 200km from home a few times a year. I currently drive between 15,000 & 20,000 km a year.

 

So it was a no brainer to put in a 7kW wall charger.

 

I am now adding 6.6kW of solar at a cost of 4K to the 2kW I already have which means at peak I will be generating around 6-7kW total.

 

On the days I am home when it is sunny I'll charge from say 11:00 till 2:00 & will get around 80% free. My EV electricity plan gives me 2 hours of free power on Saturdays & Sundays so I'll take full advantage of that & of course the rest of the weekend is off peak.

 

I've calculated the 4k payback in 2-3 years.

 

I'd really like a home battery but at present the cost/benefit is not there due to the high cost & the batteries are small. Within a few years there should be a few ex EV batteries on the market from car writeoffs or degradation beyond 80% but they will still have plenty of life left as a home battery.

 

So the purchase of an EV was not just about the benefits of silent powerful driving with zero emissions but one of basic economics as well.

 

Anyone with acreage or a farm and especially if in a remote area will reap far more benefits from installing large solar systems with decent batteries. A friend of mine with a cane farm (& an airfield) did this over 10 years ago with lead acid batteries as it was cheaper than connecting to the grid & his backup diesel generator has never been used except for testing that it still runs every now & again.

[spacesailor]

Most , people are saying EV,s are great for " city commuting ". BUT 

ISN'T that what the Bus & rail is made for !.

The neighbour takes his EV to ' Sydney,  Brisbane ' & return .

BUT 

It's a lot cheaper by rail !

I would like one , to zoom around the tourist spots, 

 Like the day I parked between a ' ROLLSROYCE ' & a ' BENTLEY' At the " museum of Interesting Things ''.  

( father & son

( must have left that space aspecially for a DELICA )) LoL

spacesailor

 

 

 

[onetrack]

There's nothing cheap about rail fares in W.A., so the EV's are still winning, hands down.

[willedoo]

I'd like an EV but I need a 4WD ute that can do a bit of work. By the time I don't have that need anymore, I'll probably be too old and silly to drive anyway. But things can change, and if I ever did end up selling up and moving to a smaller, low maintenance place, an EV would be good for going to town to do the shopping.

[old man emu]

10 hours ago, kgwilson said:

So the purchase of an EV was not just about the benefits of silent powerful driving with zero emissions but one of basic economics as well.

I'm all for installing a 6.6 kW solar system in every house. As a percentage of the cost of the average new house (land not included), the cost of such a system must be down around 1 - 2%. If the savings from not having to purchase all one's electricity from the grid would recoup that price in four years, then it does make economic sense. I believe that the take up of domestic solar generation is adding to the total renewable electricity generation that the coal-fired generators don't have to produce as much as they used to. 

 

I think kgw has answered the question of sensible EV use. I see EVs as the perfect metropolitan area transport answer. There does need to be a cultural shift to get people off the idea that the vehicle they need to pick up the groceries and the kids is some monstrous truck-like beast. I think too much emphasis has been placed on the luxury end of the vehicle market. Mock it if you like, but this is an Austin Farina, a late version of the Austin A40. What daily family tasks could you not do in it?

An EV based on this body design, possibly front-wheel drive, would be perfect.

 

On the other hand, there are tasks that I can't see that EVs are useful for. They tend to be those tasks where the tasks are carried out off-road, or where carrying capacity is important. 

 

But hang on! I think I shot myself in the foot. If willedoo is talking about needing a 4WD for farm work, why can't the farm have a solar generating unit and have the vehicle charged when not in use? I would suggest that for that type of vehicle, which would not be travelling very far most of the time, a weight saving could be made by using a smaller capacity battery. The majority of rural properties are located within the typical range of an EV. My trip to my closest major centre involved a round trip distance of 150 km and I could add another 25 km to account for running around when I get there.

 

It seems to me that the problem with EVs is not the concept, but the misapplication of the technologies involved in vehicle design.

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, old man emu said:

But hang on! I think I shot myself in the foot. If willedoo is talking about needing a 4WD for farm work, why can't the farm have a solar generating unit and have the vehicle charged when not in use? I would suggest that for that type of vehicle, which would not be travelling very far most of the time, a weight saving could be made by using a smaller capacity battery. The majority of rural properties are located within the typical range of an EV. My trip to my closest major centre involved a round trip distance of 150 km and I could add another 25 km to account for running around when I get there.

At this stage the issue with EVs and rural use is not lack of ability and battery life, but lack of availibility of suitable EV 4WD work vehicles. In the future there will probably be plenty of choice, but at the moment buying Musk's overpriced shiny tin can is not an option. A decent mid size 4WD trayback EV would be ideal, as you say for rural properties with solar to charge from. A lot of registered farm utes for farm and highway use only go to town once a week if that.

[spacesailor]

Back to ! .

Roof-top solar panels. 

Why did the bureaucrats put a "  lower " power bill , impediment to the ' poorer citizens ' , getting the subsidies. 

They. ' must ' be the ones needing that subsidy the most .

It's not the the " feed-in tariffs  " , just less ' usage bill .

spacesailor

 

[red750]

https://www.fullyloaded.com.au/product-news/1910/all-electric-4wd-launched-in-adelaide

[spacesailor]

It's a bit pricey ! .

$ 200,000.

Toyota Landcruiser , top of the line , is nowhere near that price .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

The "Sahara" wouldn't be far short of it.  Nev

[kgwilson]

There are plenty of electric utes and trucks available, just not in Australia. 200k seems a lot for a converted Landcruiser but then anything designed and built in Australia is going to be expensive simply because of low volumes compared to the development/build costs.

 

LDV have an electric double cab Ute in Australia. It looks good but I don't know about its capabilities. Range isn't huge at 330km but it has 130 kW of power & 330 Nm of torque but at about 93k it is more than twice the price of the diesel equivalent. Still with solar charging it would be a good option for anyone that has that power available though it would take a long time to break even. 45k buys a lot of diesel.

[facthunter]

Enough to go 200,000 Kms . 3 years for some tradie vehicles and a lot of costs on servicing saved. THAT and also the Hydrocarbon fuels are only going to get more expensive and electricity cheaper..   Nev

[red750]

A small tweak to a high-end car tax has revved up car industry groups who say the tax itself should be scrapped.

 

The tax in question is the luxury car tax, which applies to expensive imported cars at the point of sale.

 

From July 1, 2025, the definition of "fuel efficient" will be tightened, excluding some plug-in hybrid cars. That change will see consumers pay over $4,000 more when they purchase newly-excluded cars worth more than $77,000.

 

Treasurer Jim Chalmers said the change would "modernise" the definition of fuel efficiency, which has not been updated since 2008.

 

Read the full story here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-15/luxury-car-tax-electric-vehicle-discount/103230670

[kgwilson]

And we still don't have any fuel standards just like Russia and Mexico.

[nomadpete]

9 hours ago, red750 said:

A small tweak to a high-end car tax has revved up car industry groups who say the tax itself should be scrapped.

 

The tax in question is the luxury car tax, which applies to expensive imported cars at the point of sale.

 

From July 1, 2025, the definition of "fuel efficient" will be tightened, excluding some plug-in hybrid cars. That change will see consumers pay over $4,000 more when they purchase newly-excluded cars worth more than $77,000.

 

Treasurer Jim Chalmers said the change would "modernise" the definition of fuel efficiency, which has not been updated since 2008.

 

Read the full story here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-15/luxury-car-tax-electric-vehicle-discount/103230670

Sounds like a re introduction of the old luxury tax that was removed by a taxation simplification back around 1970.

[old man emu]

10 hours ago, red750 said:

applies to expensive imported cars at the point of sale.

All cars are imported into Australia. Why at point of sale. The point of sale price includes all the costs accumulated from the time the ship enters port to the time the seller finishes the paperwork. All those costs accrue GST, so the luxury car tax is a tax on taxes.

 

[red750]

Again, quoting good old trustworthy unbiased ABC. 

[old man emu]

From the quoted article: "The Electric Vehicle Council, an advocacy body that tracks government". Who the hell is financing these "advisory bodies" that seem to be dipping their oars into every political cesspool?

[nomadpete]

14 minutes ago, old man emu said:

From the quoted article: "The Electric Vehicle Council, an advocacy body that tracks government". Who the hell is financing these "advisory bodies" that seem to be dipping their oars into every political cesspool?

To their credit, ABC at least provided a source so you can look up where they got their misinformation from. The commercial news usually just give an unverified scarey headline, to get the clicks.

[old man emu]

There is a lot of focus on thermal runaway fires in EVs and electric bicycles that use Li-ion batteries. It got me thinking about all the other applications of those batteries. I had to recharge my cordless drill's battery and left it on the charger overnight. Didn't get the connection between that battery and one in an EV, and the possibility that mine might decide to go out in a blaze of glory.

 

Then I got to thinking about all those tradies who, to circumvent the requirement to get corded portable electric tools tested and tagged every six months, have gone over to cordless with their rechargeable batteries and the tradies set up charging racks in their home garages to charge their tools each night. What an increased risk of fires!  I guess the batteries in tools don't have enough combustible chemicals in them to go up like bicycle batteries. 

[red750]

Even charging your phone or laptop overnight when they're not being used.

[red750]

For the last couple of years, Omid Sadeghpour has been working on a fold-out solar array for his Tesla Model Y, which he reckons can get him up to 20 miles of range per day without plugging in. Now he's moving to an improved Beta2 version.

 

Electric vehicles used for the daily commute could spend much of their day sat motionless out in the open in a car park, perhaps with the Sun beating down on the roof. So why not put all of that solar energy to good use? That's the thinking behind Sadeghpour's Dartsolar project.

 

He's built a wood-framed Beta 1 prototype with Jeran Bruce at California's Forged Makerspace, with telescoping carbon-fiber tubes allowing nine 175-W flexible panels to be folded out when the vehicle is parked.

 

The array is said to weigh under 165 lb (75 kg) in total and is designed not to expand beyond a standard US parking space. The panel junction boxes are all stowed in the trunk at the moment, which the designer claims gives him the freedom to connect the panels in series or parallel, as well as removing bulk and weight from the rooftop installation. When it's time to drive on, the array can be collapsed down in under a minute to a rooftop box shape.

 

 

The wood-framed Beta1 prototype currently gets around 20 miles of extra range for five hours under sunlight, but Omid Sadeghpour is working on an improved version that could bump that up to 75 miles

[onetrack]

I never leave any small consumer item on charge overnight, or while I'm away from the house. Just remember all this stuff is made in China, with all the attendant lack of QC.

[nomadpete]

There is some merit in making yourself a fire resistant chraging area for your rechargeable tools.

Some people repurpose an old steel locker, but I  think anything that stops you from charging your lithium batteries on a flammable  surface should do. Even a simple steel shelf with a steel panel against the wall behind it would be good.

 I have made up a timer that is set to shut off the mains after the max recharge time. It prevents overcharging which is the biggest single cause of battery fires.