Electric car thread

[onetrack]

It looks like it's designed to carry 4 people, Spacey - but as with all cars going into or out of the city in peak hour, yes, they usually only carry one person.

It will never sell with a 70km range, and the specs will never stack up to what the company claims. Already, EV owners are complaining that EV ranges are over-estimated.

[Jerry_Atrick]

There are concentrators, but they are largely large industrial sized for power generation. https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/36542.pdf

 

There is an Aussie company that is also developing concave concentrators - in both cases, the bi-product is heat and lots of it - Not something you want on the bonney of a car.

 

It would be great if they come up with some whizz bang tech to make it work. But, while hopeful, not optimistic on this one.

 

Like the look of the car.. a bit like those old Citreons re-imagined; Check out the 1973 SM on this page: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/classic/gallery-look-these-cool-old-citroens

 

[old man emu]

The Shell company is closing its hydrogen supply system in California simply due to the massive technical difficulties in establishing and maintaining it. In other words, it costs too much. So that kills off hydrogen cell power as an alternative to electricity.

 

In my opinion, the available demand for EVs has just about been satisfied, and future sales may simply reflect replacement of previously purchased vehicles. That means that EVs might exists as a steady proportion of the whole automotive market, in the way that  classes of vehicles such as 4WD, SUVs, utes and sedans each maintain a portion of the total market.

 

Another factor that I see as adding unnecessary cost to EVs in particular is the made scramble to install devices and systems that the average motorist does not understand or often use to their maximum. For the vast majority of drivers, all they need is a speedometer, fuel/power content indicator, systems failure warning method, and indicators of the operation of illumination and signalling lights. 

[pmccarthy]

The perfect dashboard 

[red750]

[facthunter]

What's it all about.? IF it can be made to work, it will work. You can charge electric when on the move by induction.. No more dirty oil and cooling systems and exhausts full of god know what. and gears and driveshafts.. Nev 

[onetrack]

I have no doubt EV's will never take over motoring completely, but in 20 years time I'd expect the percentage of EV's in the nation will be more than half the vehicles. They make sense for city living.

[facthunter]

  The 85 tonnes on the road will be the Challenge.  A fair bit of that could go by rail. Even IF you love them, they do a lot of road damage to ROADS. Fun to  watch them backing into Coles with about 6 inches each side. to spare.  Nev

Edited February 25 by facthunter
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[onetrack]

I reckon Janus have the electric truck largely sorted - apart from the disastrous recent fire. But they seem to be on top of that now, too.

 

https://www.januselectric.com.au/

 

https://bigrigs.com.au/2023/12/18/why-electric-truck-caught-fire-on-the-west-gate-freeway/

 

 

[old man emu]

8 minutes ago, onetrack said:

apart from the disastrous recent fire.

That incident, with its subsequent effects on both the environment and vehicles movements on the day should never have happened as it did. You can infer that from the comments made in the explanation of the cause:

Some trace data has shown us some variability around that particular cell for the past three weeks, in what we pick up in our battery management system, and also in our ecosystem software that manages the battery assets. These are characteristics that are only specific to that cell that have basically highlighted something that we can now trace and track. The cell exhibited some different qualities, it was putting out some different voltages during charging and discharging and give a different characteristic.

 

That the vehicle continued in service, especially since it was involved in the collection of data for a trial, is tantamount to ignoring the <CHECK ENGINE> light. Based on the explanation, I'd put the blame on either poor maintenance, or ignorance of the meaning of the data being presented. I'm more inclined towards ignorance enhanced by bias. Janus is pushing its product, so it would be a bit of embarrassment to have to halt a trial because the meaning of data was not understood.

 

Another thing that is ringing alarm bells for me is characteristics that are only specific to that cell . As I understand the construction of these battery packs, they consist of a large number of individual units, similar to an AA sized one, linked together so that their output can be combined with all the other similar units.  For a pack storing enough energy to power a truck, the number of units must be in the hundreds. If one accepts the quoted statement, it implies that each and every battery has its own identifier and its own monitoring device. If so, no wonder these pack are so expensive.

[spacesailor]

O,M,E.

" All that is needed is ,,,indicator of turn signal & illumination "

I have never seen a " high beam indicator before it is used . Only after you have turned on your lights .only to have to switch off, or change to ' low beam ' .

spacesailor

[red750]

If anyone is interested, and has Foxtel, the program which included the solar powered car actually covered electric cars from the Edison powered Ford though UK electric milk floats and the production line of the electric Mini, to the solar car, including a history of batteries. The program was Series 1, Episode 4 of the program "The Secret Genius of Modern Life" on the UK Earth channel. You may be able to stream it. 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

O,M,E.

" All that is needed is ,,,indicator of turn signal & illumination "

I have never seen a " high beam indicator before it is used . Only after you have turned on your lights .only to have to switch off, or change to ' low beam ' .

spacesailor

Are you working for Sky News, or did your Secretary, Miss Quote, write your copy?

 

What I said was "and indicators of the operation of illumination and signalling lights".

[Jerry_Atrick]

6 hours ago, old man emu said:

That incident, with its subsequent effects on both the environment and vehicles movements on the day should never have happened as it did. You can infer that from the comments made in the explanation of the cause:

Some trace data has shown us some variability around that particular cell for the past three weeks, in what we pick up in our battery management system, and also in our ecosystem software that manages the battery assets. These are characteristics that are only specific to that cell that have basically highlighted something that we can now trace and track. The cell exhibited some different qualities, it was putting out some different voltages during charging and discharging and give a different characteristic.

 

That the vehicle continued in service, especially since it was involved in the collection of data for a trial, is tantamount to ignoring the <CHECK ENGINE> light. Based on the explanation, I'd put the blame on either poor maintenance, or ignorance of the meaning of the data being presented. I'm more inclined towards ignorance enhanced by bias. Janus is pushing its product, so it would be a bit of embarrassment to have to halt a trial because the meaning of data was not understood.

 

Another thing that is ringing alarm bells for me is characteristics that are only specific to that cell . As I understand the construction of these battery packs, they consist of a large number of individual units, similar to an AA sized one, linked together so that their output can be combined with all the other similar units.  For a pack storing enough energy to power a truck, the number of units must be in the hundreds. If one accepts the quoted statement, it implies that each and every battery has its own identifier and its own monitoring device. If so, no wonder these pack are so expensive.

John Cadogan has become a bit of an anti-EV evangelist lately, although in his last video he does concede there are some good ones.

 

But, I think, in terms of the slack cut to in-vogue industries and people against normal industries and vehicles is real, and this I agree with this vid from him. As an aside, there is no reason why Elon Musk should bot have been given jail time for his famous tweet he is taking the company provate and has financial backing from the Saudies. That was blatant market manipulation in spreading unfounded rumours. As the CEO and a person who had knowledge it could only have been a rumour that did lead to wild price fluctuations, if it were any other CEO, it would have certainly been jail time. But, Elon being Elon got away with a slap on the wrist.  I am quite acutely aware of what constitutes market abuse in the US as I worked on a job at a big bank here keeping some execs from incuring large personal fines as well as ensuring the bank's fines were not increased c. tenfold.

 

Anyway, to the vid:

 

 

[edit] Sorry, OT, but no one else seems to be tackling it.

Edited February 25 by Jerry_Atrick

[spacesailor]

I read it , as posed " illumination " equals ' lights ' .

But there's no " indicator to tell if the " high or low beam light " is selected .

So I copped a fine , for flashing my lights . When I put the high instead of low beam on , then correcting them .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

You wouldn't be the first person to have done that. I do it IF the person coming the other way hasn't dipped HIS lights.  Nev

[pmccarthy]

I have been watching colourised movies of New York and London Circa 1900. Big electric buses in 1900, electric taxi cabs in 1898, posties on powered scooters in 1900. Not what I expected.

[spacesailor]

Yes ' Electric trolley ' buses in the fifties,  after they pulled all the Old tramlines up for scrap metal.

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hmmm.. If this is true, it is a worry...

 

[nomadpete]

I can't bear to listen to 'ole woolly's voice again. Just tell me the guts of it. Should only take two sentences.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

Just tell me the guts of it.

1. Mitsubishi produce avery satisfactory EV for typical urban use which would have an expected RRP of around $30K, but it won't sell in Australia because ANCAP's new requirements for a 5-Star rating would add something like $15K to the price.
2. Although the vehicle received a 5-star rating in equivalent tests in Japan, ANCAP has moved the goalposts and is now demanding that vehicles are fitted with a multitude of systems designed to allow assisted driving, and eventually automated driving in order to achieve a 5 star ANCAP safety rating.

Cadigan is normally critical of the direction of EV sales campaigns wherein it is the big, expensive vehicles that are pushed, but in this case he is all for this little Mitsubishi because it does the job it is designed to do. The thrust of the video is not against this particular EV, but against ANCAP's Don Quixote-like approach to vehicle crashworthiness.

 

The initial goal of the sort of tests ANCAP initially carried out was to identify the passive passenger safety qualities of vehicles. Over the years, from leading to the introduction of collapsible steering columns to progressive collapse zones and ABS brake control, these tests have resulted in making our vehicles do less damage to people in collisions. One could well say that "their work here is done". Now it seem that in order to keep receiving Federal Government handouts, ANCAP has changed the rules to force manufacturers to install a plethora of distracting bells and whistles that cannot be disengaged unless the vehicle is moving. That really is the point Cadigan is raising in this video.

 

I find it ironic that it is illegal to have a video display in a vehicle in a position where the driver can see it, but it is OK to have a massive video display through which the driver must navigate a multi-level menu to respond to the information the system is asking for. While the driver is doing this, eyes are off the road. Casual behaviour or a momentary lapse of attention by a driver, if it results in potential danger to another person or to other persons, is not outside the offence of dangerous driving merely because it is either casual or momentary. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Thanks, OME.. A brilliant precis of the vid..

 

[spacesailor]

And a thank you , from me, ( so the wife doesn't have to listen to my videos) .

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

FORD just put a new EV around Bathurst, . Nev

[onetrack]

Cadogans presentation leaves vast amounts to be desired. He's abrasive, arrogant, supercilious, and smart-arse all rolled up into one. I can't actually stand listening to him. The problem is, he thinks he's really clever, but his style rapidly becomes obnoxious.