Electric car thread

[facthunter]

Quoting your source would help. Nev

[octave]

9 minutes ago, red750 said:

Teslas are arriving in Australia at the rate of 2,000 per month, but no-one is buying them. The storage facility in Melbourne now has 6,000 Teslas in storage and they are going nowhere.

Red could you post a link to that, please?  At least in the past the sales model was that you order one online and wait for it to get shipped.    

[facthunter]

Saw quite a few BYD's on the road Friday. More Tesla's though.  Nev

[octave]

"Teslas are arriving in Australia at the rate of 2,000 per month, but no-one is buying them"

 

 

 

State by state EV sales    

EV sales in the ACT dipped by 35 per cent in March compared to February, bringing the capital territory’s EV market share down a notch from one-in-four to one-in-five. NSW remained steady at 11 per cent – a little over one-in-ten. Victoria’s EV sales ramped up a little, with 500 extra sales compared to the previous month.

Queensland also increased its EV market share for the month, upping it from 8.4 per cent in February to 9.2 per cent in March – an extra 275 electric vehicles on the road.  

 

	Jan	Feb	Mar	EV market share, March %	EV market share, YTD %
ACT	188	453	336	21.2%	21.2%
NSW	1492	3566	3728	11.0%	9.5%
NT	18	25	31	3.3%	2.9%
QLD	1302	1894	2169	9.2%	8.2%
SA	247	506	623	8.9%	7.1%
TAS	97	123	115	7.1%	6.8%
VIC	1057	2311	2817	9.4%	7.5%
WA	492	1233	645	5.8%	7.3%

 

https://www.mynrma.com.au/electric-vehicles/news/ev-sales-march-2024#:~:text=Which EVs are the most,3 Highland hit the shores.

 

[octave]

Delving into the latest figures, April figures showed a drop however year to date figures are still higher than the first quarter of last year.   This time last year there  23926 EV sales compared to the first quarter 0f 2024 in which 31662 EVs were sold.

Is the slowdown in the month of April significant or a blip? Time will tell.     

But in contrast to reports that BEV sales are slowing down, looking at total EV sales in Australia since the start of the year there has been an increase.

https://www.mynrma.com.au/electric-vehicles/news/ev-sales-april-2024

 

 

 

 

 

[red750]

38 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Quoting your source would help

Channel 7 6 pm news.

[facthunter]

They've been wrong before. I don't trust  them.   Nev

[octave]

OK I found the story on channel 7.   The problem is how one month's drop in sales is being interpreted.  Down for the month but up for the year.   It could be the start of a slowdown  April is traditionally a slow month for all car sales. I think a rational comparison would be April this year with April last year. April 23 1581 April 24 1166 A drop yes but nothing cataclysmic.

The declaration of a collapse in EV sales is much exaggerated or at least stupidly premature.   I cant remember the actual figure but for a country to be in recession there needs to a number of quarters of negative growth  

[red750]

So you dismiss the current lack of infrastructure and the effect of price reductions of new cars, including the likelyhood of further reductions, on resale values as a reason for hestitation to leap on the EV bandwagon?

[octave]

3 minutes ago, red750 said:

So you dismiss the current lack of infrastructure and the effect of price reductions of new cars, including the likelyhood of further reductions, on resale values as a reason for hestitation to leap on the EV bandwagon?

I am not sure if you are addressing that question to me but I will assume you are.   Look carefully at my posts, I am not expressing an opinion but I am posting the numbers.   Whether or not the infrastructure is as good as it should be (it is not in many areas) may be a reason some people do not wish to buy at this point.  The network is growing.  I fully accept that you have no wish to buy electricity and that is fine.   I just don't get why you are so determined to post stuff either true or not (I haven't forgotten the supposed fiery collision that turned out to be a truck carrying gas cylinders) 

 

I might think that motorcycles are stupidly dangerous and I would never ride one however I would not go on the thread on this forum where people talk about motorcycles and slag them off.   If I don't want to ride one I don't have to others are welcome to do so.     There is no plan where anyone here (unless there are some youngns) will be forced to buy an electric car and even if the targets are achieved (which I doubt) the electric car of mid 2030s will be a quite different beast compared to the ones today.

 

You may feel that the people who buy an EV today are stupid however these are the people who are driving the technology forward, they are paying the higher price of being an early adopter which will allow later adopters to buy a cheaper better product. 

[red750]

2 minutes ago, octave said:

 I just don't get why you are so determined to post stuff either true or not

OK I'll stop posting.

[Marty_d]

The only thing stopping me from jumping on the EV bandwagon is price.  

I'd be filling the shed roof with more panels and leave it plugged in all day.  Lack of charging infrastructure doesn't worry me when you can do that.

If prices come down much below 40k for a reasonable sized SUV type, I'd be very tempted to buy one through salary sacrifice.  At the moment there's total fringe benefit tax exemption on EV's plus no GST if under approx. 70k.  Plus the tax saved by leasing it thru pre-tax salary and it becomes quite attractive.

[octave]

3 minutes ago, red750 said:

OK I'll stop posting.

There is a reasonable dissuasion to be had.   EVs obviously have pros and cons.  Not just Cons and not just Pros.   It just gets tiresome the revolving list of untrue or partially true assertions. Exploding batteries, collapsing car parks, EVs allegedly causing potholes.  If you read back through this thread you will see all of those and more.

 

I think like lots of areas these things tend to get polarized EVs are perfect, no EVs are the work of the devil.   You know the truth might lie somewhere between.   

[octave]

Oh I typed this earlier and forgot to pot it.

 

 

OK just going through the Channel 7 story.

 

"Every month 2000 Teslas arrive in Melbourne but there is NOBODY" to buy them."    Obviously that is a stupidly exaggerated statement.  The Tesla sales are not zero.  Yes sales might be down this month for whatever reason.   

 

"Tesla sales slumped 44% in April.  I don't know what that means. It is not 44% lower than last April as far as I can see.   1581 to 1166, I don't think that is 44%.

 

I would be interested to know how many Teslas there are in that lot. They never mention the number but the aerial shots don't seem to match the month after month 2000 Tesla and no one buying.

[old man emu]

The 21% of total vehicle sales in Canberra really shows a few points.

 

First is that the ACT is  a small, densely settled area - an urban area. Daily travel distances are not great, even for people living in the closeby towns in NSW. Therefore EVs are a practical alternative to ICEs in that environment.

 

Secondly, when Canberra residents travel away, it is either to Sydney or the coast at Batemans Bay. Both destinations are in the suggested range of an EV on a full charge. Once again, the EV is a practical alternative.

 

Thirdly, a large proportion of the Canberra population appears to strongly follow the environmentalist ideals, especially the idea of nett zero. Therefore, it would be obvious for them to want to adopt methods to fulfil those ideal.

 

Fourth, that same population of environmental idealist is in the high income brackets. Allied with the relatively lower cost of living in Canberra compared to the other capitals, it means that a larger portion of the population has the income to support the purchase cost of an EV. We wouldn't be talking about the 6-figure costing EVs, more of your 50 - 60 K versions,  a price which really is similar to that for the ICE alternative.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

.

Edited June 3 by Jerry_Atrick

[Marty_d]

Well said Jerry.

[old man emu]

Just a comment on the price of an EV at the lower end of the range, the GWM "Ora" is about $36K. It looks to be a no-frills vehicle compared to modern bells and whistle loaded types. A quick glance at one review suggests that it meets a lot of the points I mentioned above.

 

It's a small city runabout that the reviewer I read said that although GWM caims 400 kms range a practical range was about 300 kms - enough for a trip to Sydney from Canberra. It was acknowledged that while it could be charged from a domestic supply, that would take about 6 hours. However if the vehicle is only used as a runabout to and from home, that would be OK.

 

One think I did see when I actually looked at one on display is that its top speed is 104 kph. Not a good speed to be doing on the run between Sydney and Canberra. And I wonder how much the battery would drain climbing up from the coast to the altitude of Canberra. 

[red750]

Sounds like the Ora would suit me (if I had the small amount of cash to buy it). I rarely have more than myself in the car, and according to my daily travel diary (odometer readings) I only normally travel 300 km a month, so a monthly charge should do me. When we eventually move to our temporary Men's Shed, that trip will drop from 22 km to 8 km per day, meaning I will save 42 km per week (3 days at shed). This would mean a single charge would last me over 2 months.

[octave]

16 minutes ago, red750 said:

Sounds like the Ora would suit me (if I had the small amount of cash to buy it). I rarely have more than myself in the car, and according to my daily travel diary (odometer readings) I only normally travel 300 km a month, so a monthly charge should do me. When we eventually move to our temporary Men's Shed, that trip will drop from 22 km to 8 km per day, meaning I will save 42 km per week (3 days at shed). This would mean a single charge would last me over 2 months.

 

I might surprise you that as enthusiastic as I am about EVs I am not sure whether at this stage it makes sense for someone such as yourself to go EV at this point unless you particularly want to and can afford it. I am pretty much in this category.   In an environmental sense, you would not be contributing much given your low travel distances.   For me, it is a case of my next car will be EV but I will probably keep my present car running as long as it is viable.  The early adopters that are buy EVs now are proving the technology and price of production, just like in the personal computer area.

[kgwilson]

You can call me an EVangeslist if you like. I have owned my MG4 Essence 64 since last September & have 12,000km on the clock now. I'd never buy another ICE vehicle. The public charging infrastructure is terrible. A lot of the fast chargers are hard to operate or are out of service. Only the Tesla fast chargers seem to always work, possibly because they have good service teams, I don't know.

 

So far I have spent about $60.00 to travel 12,000km. I have been to Noosa once and Brisbane twice but other than that no more than 200km radius from home. I have a 7.4 kW wall charger and 8.5kW of solar panels & only charge when the sun is shining. If the solar is not producing much I reduce the current going to the car battery so as I don't have to import power from the grid.

 

EVs are just a natural progression of technology. The only reason they didn't catch on in the early 1900s was battery technology. Electric motors just make sense. One moving part and almost 100% efficient compared to hundreds of moving parts and 30% efficiency of an ICE vehicle. Then there is instant torque available from 0 RPM, not to mention no noise, no emissions or vibration.

 

They have been expensive but costs are coming down and batteries are getting cheaper. There are now several Corolla sized EVs for less than 40k and all are bigger inside. There isn't much of a 2nd hand market but that will change over time. The thing is the warranties are great and service requirements very low that not many are getting on to the used car market yet. There are quite a few funky looking inner city EVs available in the UK & Europe now & cost less than $20 grand. They are not fast, small, seat 1 or 2 only have a small battery but are perfect for driving around a city.

 

As for the glut of EVs unsold in lots, well there is an element of truth in this but nothing like the press would have you believe. Production in China has gone ballistic and they were shipping EVs around the world before there was even dealership infrastructure & cars ended up sitting at ports waiting for that to be set up. The Teslas coming in to Australia are all Chinese built and unless Tesla has changed its strategy they are all built to order. China tried but could not go toe to toe with the legacy auto makers. Many of them built factories in China & beat the Chinese hands down. China found its mojo in EVs and battery technology and has crushed the rest of the world in manufacturing, technology and price. China is now the largest car manufacturing country on the planet as well as the largest exporter with 40% of sales EVs. They have scared the US out of its wits and there is now a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs sold in the US to try and protect the declining motor vehicle industry there.

 

The other side of the coin is that there is a glut of ICE vehicles arriving in Australia. Most of the legacy manufacturers are advertising like crazy at present with the magic phrase "In Stock" appearing in most of the TV ads. It took 3 years to get back on track after Covid. Everything was in short supply, now there is an over supply.

 

Nothing is as simple as it seems and the fossil fuel industry, big mining and legacy car makers have been lobbying governments to slow the move to electrification and the media with shareholdings in these industries are telling them and the gullible public what they want to hear.

[Jerry_Atrick]

It's always great to hear about something from people who have real life experience with the subject day in and day out.. And the above is with an immature supporting infrastructure that, I dunno, pollies whose parties are in the fossil fuel lobby's pockets may mean its roll out iew being hampered.. You know, like this fella:

 

(I am not asserting Monique Ryan is a fella, by the way - it is who the question is directed to). I didn't watch the rest of the vid after the close to abuse of standing orders comment - close is not, "is", and it shows that sometimes that ship show is a sham, so getting anything for the benefit of the people, like, I dunno, an effective transport fueling infrastructure based on electricity rather than fossil fuel, is not going to happen any time soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

10 hours ago, kgwilson said:

You can call me an EVangeslist if you like.

Be that as it may, but what I did glean from your description of how you deal with charging and usage was that you are probably one of the unique who has developed a plan for efficiency. Your mention of when and how you charge your car shows forethought. However, I would venture to suggest that developing and applying such a plan is rarely done by most users. For most, it would be "kick the tyres. Light the fires and flock off", as it has been with ICEs forever.

 

10 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Only the Tesla fast chargers seem to always work,

Maybe true of Tesla, but over the weekend one other charging company's system went down because of a tech failure at Telstra. The idea of having to do all procedures via Smartphone apps is a fatal flaw when most people have now gone over to the practice of simply inserting plastic to pay for all manner of things. However, that's not the fault of the EV itself.

 

10 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Then there is instant torque available from 0 RPM

That invokes my interest. We've all seen hoons smoking up their tyres to the delight of the observing hordes. That is done by having the engine (of course ICE) generate enough torque at the tyre/surface interface to overcome the coefficient of friction at that interface, whilst preventing the vehicle from moving, resulting in the wheel rotating, generating heat and igniting the tyre material that is being rubbed off the tyre. If the motor of an EV can go from zero to full on torque immediately, how do you control that tendency to spin the wheels when you want to drive in a normal fashion? Is there some sort of torque control?

 

Is Chinese production of EVs more  of a political strategy than economic one? There's an old Capitalist saying, "No one makes any money until something is sold". We are seeing that through the massive price drops for EVs from all sources. I wonder if the Chinese are clapping their hands at the West's mandates regarding levels of non-ICE sales since those mandates may destroy economies which are heavily reliant on ICE manufacture and operation. 

 

 

[octave]

58 minutes ago, old man emu said:

. If the motor of an EV can go from zero to full on torque immediately, how do you control that tendency to spin the wheels when you want to drive in a normal

I can say from personal experience that the Tesla does not spin it's tyres.  The cars tech controls the traction.  I am not sure if there is a mode you can select where you can spin the tyres.   Another recent update allows for setting up different accounts for family members. This allows the parents to set up a profile that limits the performance for the younger or otherwise less experienced drivers in the family.

[octave]

Apparently you can select "slip mode" if you are dumb enough to want to spin your wheels which if course slows you down anyway.