Electric car thread

[facthunter]

I think the BYD is selling very well against a lot of vehicles of all types. Elon Musks connection wouldn't be a great help for Telsa reputation.   A lot of people are waiting for the prices to reduce a bit. People who should have gone for an EV went  non chargeable low battery range HYBRID. The worst of both worlds. They would have been better to   stay with a good performing ICE vehicle. Lighter and over 10,000 dollars cheaper. There's some pretty SUSS advertising going on there.  Nev

[red750]

I'm not saying Teslas haven't sold well, but they may have overestimated the demand, underestimated the Chinese production, or not accounted for the high cost of living.

 

We were talking about EV's at the Shed a week ago, and one of the guys said he had only seen one Tesla, so I kept an eye out on the way home. On Canterbury Road, between Middleborough Road and Mitcham Road, a distance of 5.25 KM, I counted 11 Teslas. We have 3 in our street, one next door, one opposite and one further up the street.

[facthunter]

I go to Melbourne a lot and Tesla's are by far the most common of the EV's. They have a few different models and have been around and available longest. Not everyone will get one but they are here for the long haul I believe. The servicing is near zero.   Nev

[old man emu]

The impression I have of TESLAs is similar to my father's impression of US soldiers in Australia in WWII - over paid, over sexed, and over here.

 

To my mind TESLA's are overpriced, over hyped and over here.

 

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Elon Musks connection wouldn't be a great help for Tesla reputation. 

I think that is very high on consumers' buying checklist. Big noting yourself doesn't endear customers to your product. What are the names of the heads of BYD, Ford, GMH, Volkswagen and so on. Sure, the names are easy to find, but you've got to go looking. Elon advertises himself.

[octave]

42 minutes ago, old man emu said:

To my mind TESLA's are overpriced, over hyped and over here.

 

Is this based on experience or perception?  Perhaps you could be more specific.   I have driven a Tesla for a total of 4 weeks.  My son who is passionate and extremely knowledgeable about cars generally is certainly not a Tesla fanboy. There are things about the Tesla that he thinks should be improved and things he thinks are brilliant. Apart from some warranty work and tyres in 4.5 years he has had no other repairs or servicing done (and he has used it for motorsport on a few occasions.) 

 

48 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I think that is very high on consumers' buying checklist. Big noting yourself doesn't endear customers to your product. What are the names of the heads of BYD, Ford, GMH, Volkswagen and so on. Sure, the names are easy to find, but you've got to go looking. Elon advertises himself.

 

I would be the first to agree that Musk is a rather odious character. This does not however mean everything his companies have achieved is crap.  Space X being contracted to NASA to transport astronauts to the iSS is quite remarkable.  Again Musk is a dick but perhaps Henry Ford was also. 

 

As for the names of the head of BYD, Ford GMH etc I can name 2 out of 3 of those without looking them up.

 

In terms of Tesla as I mentioned before I bought some shares. I did this not to make money but because I like to have a stake in the future. I don't want to be an old guy who can only look back. I bought these shares in 2019 when they were rock bottom and before Tesla was profitable.   During this time so many people predicted it would fail or never be profitable.  Many even suggested that Tesla was a scam.  My prediction is that more than likely Tesla will still be profitable but more completion will reduce its growth.  What is often forgotten is that Tesla is more than a car company. Tesla grid storage batteries are being built all around the world.

 

Am I a Tesla fanboy - no  I think they are very good cars and Tesla has definitely stimulated the EV industry which I think is good.   Would I buy a Tesla?   it depends on price but there are many good EVs on the market.   

 

I think anxiety over change drives a lot of EV commentary.

[red750]

I went to our local Red Rooster this afternoon and was surprised to see two Evie charging stations in their carpark, each with two cables. Capable of charging four cars at once.

[old man emu]

23 minutes ago, octave said:

Is this based on experience or perception?

It is very clear that you are talking from the experience of being intimately involved with EVs and the TESLA in particular. I am on the other side of the chasm where my talk is based on perception. 

 

There needs to be a bridge over the chasm, which I accept that you are trying to build. But all I see is Elon white-anting its foundations by over-pricing and over-hyping his product and being a braggart about his wealth. If he had learned the lessons of Henry Ford, he would have initially made vehicles for the masses, then once market confidence was established he could have played with luxury models.

 

I can see that there are circumstances where EVs out-benefit the ICE. That's me constructing the revetment on my side.

[red750]

Further to my previous post, the map below shows the Red Rooster store. Canterbury Rd at the bottom of picture. Red arrow points to one of the bays converted to Evie recharge stations.

 

[spacesailor]

There must be an awful lot of ' unsold cars .

In the UK .

Bruntingthorpe air museum UK . 

Has ended with the airfield being leased to " car parking storage " .

The only exhibition of working " coldwar " planes roaring down the runway .

So told, but not substantiated! .

( hope it's correct ) .

spacesailor

[red750]

[octave]

 

 

Cox Automotive UK acquires Bruntingthorpe operator C Walton Ltd

[spacesailor]

25,000 ' Secured storage ' .

That's a big " car park " .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

To my observation anti Ev Propaganda  far exceeds decent EValuation. by an enormous degree.    Elon's offer to SA was if it doesn't work you don't have to PAY. Even the SA Lib Gvt Put in MORE. later even though Scomo made a big song and dance and rubbished the idea of Batteries. Being free of the electricity and fossil fuel providers monopoly has to be a great opportunity. in a country such as this place. Nev

[red750]

Further to my post re the charging stations at Red Rooster, here is a photo.The bays marked for charging are occupied, but both chargers have two cables, so cars in the adjoining bays could also plug in..

 

[willedoo]

On 15/06/2024 at 5:18 PM, spacesailor said:

There must be an awful lot of ' unsold cars .

In the UK .

Bruntingthorpe air museum UK . 

Has ended with the airfield being leased to " car parking storage " .

The only exhibition of working " coldwar " planes roaring down the runway .

So told, but not substantiated! .

( hope it's correct ) .

spacesailor

Isn't that the airfield where they used to do runway runs with the Lightning.

[octave]

A couple of interesting articles.

 

"We are behind": Toyota's stunning admission about arch rival - but here's how the Japanese giant plans on levelling the score with the Tesla Model Y and Model 3

 

 

Toyota engineers call the Tesla Model Y a “work of art” – report

 

[facthunter]

Toyota have gone the wrong way on this one..  Electric is near 100% efficient. Simple quiet and .Maintenace free. No head gaskets exhaust systems radiators water pumps clutches Gearboxes tailshafts and explosions going on inside . Nev

Edited June 17 by facthunter

[old man emu]

Watch Toyota come out with something ball-busting. By holding off their commitment to early involvement in EVs they have had the opportunity to learn from the errors of others.

[spacesailor]

Electric cars without " Radiators & coolant " .

So how do they cool those ' liquid ' cooled battery packs.

spacesailor

[octave]

8 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Electric cars without " Radiators & coolant " .

So how do they cool those ' liquid ' cooled battery packs.

spacesailor

Some EV batteries are liquid-cooled, and some are air-cooled. 

 

Here is an explanation of the Tesla Model 3 battery cooling system. Pretty interesting for those who are interested in learning new things. Tesla Model 3 - Cooling System Overview

 

Edited June 17 by octave

[facthunter]

OME do you still believe in the tooth Fairy?  Making motor vehicles is a perilous business.. IF you go in the wrong direction you will pay for it..

  Re battery cooling. It's not of the order of the waste heat from and ICE motor which is in excess of 60% of the fuel energy. Add a turbo ( a high stressed item) to the list of items not needed with electric.  Nev

[old man emu]

32 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Making motor vehicles is a perilous business.. IF you go in the wrong direction you will pay for it..

Leaving out the cost of the source of motive power, I suspect that any mass-produced vehicle of similar size and appointments would cost the same to produce. While it's probably true that the ICE has run out of economically viable areas of development, and the situation for the electric motor might be the same, it is going to be the technology of energy replenishment and storage that will be the deciding factor (bar one, which I'll post abut later) in the profitability of total electrification. 

 

I hinted that Toyota's apparent slow move into the field of EVs might simply be an indication that they are awaiting new technologies in dealing with the mobile generation of electricity at the individual vehicle level. Toyota's decision might be based on its preventing wasting money driving into dead ends.

[spacesailor]

New technologies ! .

The Electric car & bus . Proceeds the IC motor .

But

I can't understand the mentally of ' ripping ' up our roads to put down those Old tram ' rail ' lines .

Instead of electrification of the existing bus fleet .

So many " bankrupt shopkeepers " , was a direct result .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Melbourne's Trams are just fine space and air conditioned and free in the central area and carry a lot of people quickly in  the city/.  Nev

[old man emu]

Following on from my previous post. We have been delving deep into the various technologies surrounding the use of EVs, and to some extent the personal economics of buying, using and disposing of an EV. However, there is one monetary factor that is being ignored and which is likely to be the one that sounds the death knell of EVs - the requirements to assure the protection of property from EV battery fires and the insurance reimbursement in the event of an EV fire.

 

LET ME GET THIS STATED: It does appear that in relation to the number of battery-powered vehicles (and in this I will include bicycles, small scooters, mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs) that thermal runaways are rare events, probably getting down to the rarity of nuclear plant incidents. However, the consequences of a thermal runaway are orders of magnitude worse to property and the environment than any other carbon combustion fire in populated areas.

 

In recognising the potential of the risk, and based on the adange "a stitch in time saves nine", preventative measures to protect property will be legislated. That can only add significantly to the construction and maintenance costs of buildings. Even with those preventative measures taken, there will be damage to be repaired.  Those philanthropic organisations known as insurance companies will have their actuaries hard at it to determine the companies' financial risk in insuring a building against fire and don't forget that the extra cost of the preventative measures would make the  sum insured much higher than that for a building in which batteries are banned.

 

So it won't be the strength of the technology that supports full electrification, but the cost of obtaining insurance cover that will restrict the attainment of that goal.