Electric car thread

[Marty_d]

40 minutes ago, red750 said:

Found this on Youtube.

 

 

 

Heard an interesting hack on Friday. A guy who used to come to the Men's Shed and required a 4-wheel walker has not been able to come for over six months as his condition has deteriorated. We heard from his wife that he has a plastic bag on the car seat (passenger side). He can sit on the bag and the two sides of the bag slide on each other as he rotates to get in or out of the car. it's a pity that plastic bags are disappearing.

You can get a piece of slippery fabric that does the same thing (and a bit nicer than plastic bags). I've got a piece in the glove box for when I drive my 90yo mother anywhere. No idea what it's called but can ask my wife if you want to know. 

[facthunter]

Vehicles these days are ridiculously difficult to enter and exit generally. London Cabs excluded. That's probably one of the reasons SUV's sell as they do. Electric cars are heavy and have larger tyres and their rolling resistance would show that.. At 11.5L/100 Kms, the PETROL Raptor is not heavy on fuel. A side valve Morris oxford would use more than that, and wouldn't pull the skin off a Rice Custard.  Nev

[old man emu]

20 minutes ago, facthunter said:

the PETROL Raptor is not heavy on fuel. A side valve Morris oxford would use more than that, and wouldn't pull the skin off a Rice Custard. 

But you are forgetting the massive advances in motor vehicles since the Morris Oxford with a 1476 cc engine was introduced in October 1948. These advances include better metallurgy to allow for higher compression; better fuel to take advantage of higher compression ratios; computer control of the air/fuel ratio and spark timing for best power for the power generation required. Not to mention the engineered passive passenger protection of modern vehicles.

 

Is the RAPTor such a fuel miser? I can remember fuel consumption figures for the old orange 176 straight six in Holdens being stated as 25 miles per gallon. That's 11.36 litres / 100 kms.

 

And rice custard skins have toughened up.

[onetrack]

One of my brothers had an FB Holden station wagon and it used to get around 32mpg on country runs.

 

But of course, the old 6 cyl grey Holden motor was only 138 cu in (2.26L) and only produced 75HP at its best output - and the FB Holden wagon only weighed just over 1100kgs.

[kgwilson]

The development of internal combustion engines over the last 120 years has been phenomenal. Metallurgy & precision engineering now have superb heat dispersion and 21st century lubricants are so good that there is hardly any wear for over 200,000km. And now humans don't make them, robots do, so there is no such thing as a Monday or Friday car these days. That is of course so long as an appropriate maintenance regime is maintained and pieces that do wear are replaced before they fail. Electronics of course is the other major factor in how refined and smooth an ICE engine that is always trying to destroy itself, is now.

 

My first car with electric windows was a mid 80s Mitsubishi Galant. By the time it was replaced at 2 years old the window motors were grumbling & would have needed replacement soon after. Now there about 30 or more micro processors that monitor and manage everything & they are very reliable. The only problem is that they still need fossil fuels, a finite resource and atmospheric pollutant, to run.

[facthunter]

None of that old stuff had decent seats a heater or an air conditioner and most had hopeless drum brakes and no Power steering, no crumple zones airbags or decent door locks and Boiled on long hills on hot days and oil changed and greased every 1000 miles. The Modern car is just Magic by comparison and much cheaper in REAL terms than yesterdays cars.  Nev

[spacesailor]

My 52 Morris Oxford .was a brilliant car & climbed every hill it encountered. 

Even though two female passengers thought it would tip over backwards. & walked the rest of the way to " Riber Castle " Matlock Derbyshire. At the time a animal " wildlife park " .

A castle built but never occupied l ,as water was difficult to get ' uphill ' from valley below. .

In the 60s all manufacturers were aiming to beat the 30 MPG . TODAY they still loose but happy with 14 litres p 100 kmrs,  ( it is a 4X4 full off road 2 seater double bed ) .

spacesailor

 

[red750]

[old man emu]

I've been following the release of the Tesla Cybertruck, which would probably be better named the Muskego. The vehicle has been absolutely panned by the industry and I wonder how many avid environmentalists actually disapprove of it for its over-the-top use of  rare materials.  I'm not against a person making a custom car for their own satisfaction, but to try to leverage dollars from the pockets of the gullible with outrageous claims it not a very moral stance. Unfortunately, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I don't see the world through Elon-gated eyes.

 

However, leaving aside the power supply system it uses and the materials used for its body, there are things included in this vehicle which, in any sort of passenger vehicle, would scare me. I'm referring to the way things like door opening, seat positioning and even the opening of the glovebox are controlled electronically through a massive video screen located in the centre of the dashboard. My fear is that the electronics could fail, making it impossible to get out of the car, even for the normal reason. Worse still if the vehicle was damaged in a collision. Even the cover of the "cargo space" opens and closes electronically.

 

It is the information screens with their flickering items that I consider a safety hazard as they are a distraction to the driver. Any movement caught by the eye will attract our mind's attention. That's a basic animal survival response that has been in animals since the Cambrian period, some 570 million years ago. It's that attention-drawing response that starts us reacting to the sudden sight of a ball rolling onto the road, or the response to that one fly which flits around us as we drive. Having the control of ancillary systems located in the centre of the car seems ergonomically unsound to me.

[nomadpete]

My suspicion is that the angletruk is targeted at a particular buyer demographic;-

 

The ever growing mobs of wealthy doomsday peppers.

A toughened, non petroleum reliant, bug out vehicle for the much anticipated SHTF event. These folk will already have their orders placed on the eager buyers list.

[old man emu]

1. Toughened.

The vehicle's outer shell is made of stock-standard stainless steel. It's no better than the sheet steel used to make normal vehicles. Yes. It has been demonstrated to stop certain calibre bullets, but so can the stainless steel door of your fridge. Have you ever bought a Big Mac that looks like the one in the advertisement?

2. Non-petroleum reliant.

Just ask someone to turn on the light after a storm has damaged the electricity distribution system. But them, of course, a Doomsdayer would already have a diesel-powered generator and ample stocks of fuel to generate the electricity to recharge the time-lifed batteries.

3. A particular buyer demographic.

Mega rich car enthusiasts who like to collect unusual vehicles and Rolex watches. I watched a video on the release and the customers interviewed didn't seem to be the typical Doomsdayer. One even said that when he got his, he would get it wrapped in black material. I wonder what Elon wouldsay if Lady Penelope bought one and painted it pink?

[facthunter]

It's NOT HILARIOUS at all Red. Its just part of the subliminal anti EV propaganda  being pumped out incessantly  by the mind alterers. I wish you'd cease adding to it actually. To put it mildly I don't come to this forum to see LOTS of such $#!t .There's already enough "Out there"  Nev

[Litespeed]

 

I can see your point Nev, but it is a funny image.

 

Truth, rarely impedes on humour as long as there is a whisper of reality.

 

The Cybertruck is a absolutely antithesis of a green vehicle. But sadly that is the vision many fools want.

 

 

Some of its specs and features are impressive,  but just like guns I don't want or need one and they should be restricted.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

There are those that love the Cybertruck, those that hate it, and those that make fun of it.. 

 

[old man emu]

8 minutes ago, Litespeed said:

The Cybertruck is a absolutely antithesis of a green vehicle. But sadly that is the vision many fools want. 

Some of its specs and features are impressive,  but just like guns I don't want or need one and they should be restricted.

While that is true, I'd put it into the class of "Rare car" - only a handful made compared to the multitudes made by the same manufacturer. Here's a link to rare cars that illustrates my point.

https://www.opumo.com/magazine/rarest-cars-in-the-world/

 

I don't see those queueing up to buy one as being environmental visionaries. More likely financial visionaries who consider investing in a rare commodity and keeping it as time makes it rare and reselling is a capital gain. I can vouch for that. I bought my 42 Harley for $14K in 2012. Next January it will turn 80 years old, and the motoring insurance company for enthusiasts has increased its insured value annually until they reckon it is worth $34K. (I didn't buy mine for that reason. I'm a WLA Harley nut.)

 

Specs:

There is not a lot of published data on the Gross Vehicle Mass (Empty weight + load). It is heavy at 3000 kg, but a lot of other vehicles weigh that much. The payload is quoted at 1134 kg. That doesn't mean you and 5 adults can stuff 1134 kg into the back. Let's say an Australian adult weighs 100 kg. 1134 - 500 = 634. Okay, that's half a tonne. But the towing capacity is 4,990 kg. That means that the towed vehicle can hit the scales at around five tonne. However, that five tonnes exerts a force on the towing vehicle called the tow ball weight, the proportion of trailer weights applied to towing vehicles. It is also known as the tow ball load, or tow ball download.

 

The recommended tow ball weight in Australia is about 10% of the aggregate trailer mass or a maximum of 350 kilograms—whichever is the lowest.  Generally speaking, this should be somewhere between 5% and 15% of the trailer’s weight. Let's stick to 10%, which would be 499 kg. 634 - 499 = 145 kg to go into the cargo area, or 284 kg if you restrict yourself to a 2840 kg trailer.

 

Not so, "Not do squeezy!"

 

Yes, there are a lot of whistles and bells, but whistles lose their peas and bells their clangers. I mentioned the effects of that earlier.

 

Is the Cybertruck a realistically useable vehicle? I'd say, "No". Is the Cybertruck a realistic object to seek capital gains? I'd say, "Probably, but don't hold me to that".

[red750]

[onetrack]

I don't want to ever drive anything that requires a firmware update from a remote server via an internet connection, to continue operating.

Neither do I want to drive anything that has no physically-operated latches/catches/locks to enable you to get in or out of the machine ....

1. When it catches fire ....

2. When it washes into a flooded area ....

3. When it's in a major accident and the doors/windows/other form of exits, get distorted....

4. When the power to all those electronic controls inside the vehicle, dies for some electronic or physical reason .....

 

The Cybertruck is a pander to Elons ego and his narcissism. He believes that what he dreams up, is what every single person in the world craves. I've got news for him .....

[nomadpete]

13 hours ago, old man emu said:

1. Toughened.

The vehicle's outer shell is made of stock-standard stainless steel. It's no better than the sheet steel used to make normal vehicles. Yes. It has been demonstrated to stop certain calibre bullets, but so can the stainless steel door of your fridge. Have you ever bought a Big Mac that looks like the one in the advertisement?

2. Non-petroleum reliant.

Just ask someone to turn on the light after a storm has damaged the electricity distribution system. But them, of course, a Doomsdayer would already have a diesel-powered generator and ample stocks of fuel to generate the electricity to recharge the time-lifed batteries.

3. A particular buyer demographic.

Mega rich car enthusiasts who like to collect unusual vehicles and Rolex watches. I watched a video on the release and the customers interviewed didn't seem to be the typical Doomsdayer. One even said that when he got his, he would get it wrapped in black material. I wonder what Elon wouldsay if Lady Penelope bought one and painted it pink?

You are using facts and logic. These have little to do with advertising, nor with appealing to vehicle buyer's preferences.

 

An exception being the rare genuine investor seeking a item that might appreciate in value simply because of it's rarity, regardless of it's functionality.

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

I don't want to ever drive anything that requires a firmware update from a remote server via an internet connection, to continue operating.

There's quite a number of farmers finding out the hard way about this sort of problem. Some very expensive new tractors are sitting idle due to software issues, when harvesting cannot wait.

[onetrack]

Quote

An exception being the rare genuine investor seeking a item that might appreciate in value simply because of it's rarity, regardless of it's functionality.

You're imagining it might one day rank alongside the DeLorean car? Yep ..... look at all the similarities ......

 

1. Produced and delivered late, by a marketing con-artist ...

2. Ended up costing vastly more than initially quoted ...

3. Full of assembly and engineering faults ...

4. Produced in numbers far lower than the designer/manufacturer bragged he'd produce ...

 

The only thing that has helped the DeLorean to avoid total obscurity, and which keeps their prices up and the remaining few thousand on the road, was the film, "Back to the Future".

Elon had better hope someone makes a film featuring a Mad-Max version of the Cybertruck, so it doesn't vanish without trace.

 

https://www.freeway.com/knowledge-center/auto/what-happened-to-the-delorean

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by onetrack

[pmccarthy]

I'm pleased that others have seen the parallel with the Delorean.

[nomadpete]

7 hours ago, onetrack said:

You're imagining it might one day rank alongside the DeLorean car? Yep ..... look at all the similarities ......

Exactly the image I had in mind!

[Marty_d]

There's actually an electric DeLorean now, and it looks a lot nicer than the Egotruck... 

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I'm pleased that others have seen the parallel with the Delorean.

The only clear parallel is the material the body was made from. For what was supposed to be somewhat of a high speed vehicle, it only had a "small" engine. Power came from a PRV (Peugeot-Renault-Volvo) 2.8-litre sohc V6 like Peugeot 505, Renault 25 and Volvo 760. It would have produced 160 hp in Europe. My 2005 Hyundai Tiburon has a 2.7 litre V6 and goes like a riding school hack on the homeward trek. 

 

The DeLorean DMC-12 (Back to the Future) is selling now for about $US75K. Upon release in 1981, a DeLorean had a base price of USD$25,000, or equivalent to USD$80,000 in 2022, so they are not a capital gains goldmine.

[facthunter]

Collecting something that is rare because it deserves to be doesn't make sense to me.  Nev