Electric car thread

[facthunter]

The question was not asked of me But I absolutely Hate driving anything that is revving hard or has vibration periods. or the engine is Harsh like some rally cars are. I don't like NOISE either especially on a long trip. This also applies to aircraft and why Gliders are such pleasant things by comparison. Nev

[octave]

As I drive one for a couple of weeks each year I can say that when I get back home and get into my petrol car it seems like a vibration machine. I feel like I can hear and feel each piston stroke.  Just about anyone who drives an EV for even a few minutes will comment about how quiet it is. May I respectfully suggest that if you have not driven one perhaps you don't have the necessary experience to make a judgement.

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Noise ! .

I have had " extractors " fitted to the wife's Pajero .

As everyone was saying , it was noisy,  with a hole in the exhaust. At certain revs ( 4500 & 5000 rpm ) I now hear the exhaust note clearly.  So to my damaged ears , it is noisier. 

spacesailor

[facthunter]

 That sounds fair, actually. Remember, don't knock it IF you haven't tried it. (In response to Octave.)    Nev

Edited June 19 by facthunter

[spacesailor]

2 minutes in the neabours Tesla .

I didn't  feel much vibration .

 after hitting my head on The low door-frame . LoL

spacesailor

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, octave said:

May I respectfully suggest that if you have not driven one perhaps you don't have the necessary experience to make a judgement.

May I respectfully suggest that you read what I wrote. I clearly started off by saying that I didn't understand how driving one type of car over a well-known route could be any more tiring than driving a different type. Surely you still get equally bumped about by the uneven road surfaces, or are you telling me that as well as running noiselessly they also ride on a cushion of air?

 

If the bloody EV is so quiet inside, then they must have the soundproofing of a recording studio. I've got great soundproofing to eliminate engine and road noise. It's called the volume switch on the sound system.

[octave]

2 minutes ago, old man emu said:

If the bloody EV is so quiet inside, then they must have the soundproofing of a recording studio. I've got great soundproofing to eliminate engine and road noise. It's called the volume switch on the sound system.

Here is a clip of my son driving his previous EV on a track day. 

[kgwilson]

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

That I don't understand. Maybe it's a difference in our driving styles. I take it you do the Corindi to Noosa trip regularly enough to know the road and to have your pit stops almost set in stone. I drive from Gilgandra to Camden reasonably regularly. I now the road -meaning the road surface- pretty well and with cruise control I don't have to do much more than move the steering wheel a tad. My times between localities are usually the same, trip after trip, and I have my set stopping places for a coffee, a pee or a sandwich. I arrive at Camden after 5-1/2 hours driving and about 6-1/2 with stops, and if I've had a smooth run from Katoomba to the Nepean River at the start of the M4, I arrive at Camden with a sore bum, but otherwise OK. 

 

So how is your trip so much more relaxing simply because the power generation of your vehicle is different from mine?

Compared to driving ANY ICE car driving an EV feels completely effortless. There is no noise or vibration and no change in engine note when acceleration is required. I drive SES utes & trucks & my wifes ICE car & recently a friends flash Mercedes C300. I went for a  ride in a ROUSH which is a severely modified Mustang with 750HP on Sunday. The power was amazing but so was the noise. Off the line the MG could keep up with it for a couple of seconds as full torque starts from 0 rpm. The difference is stark.

 

The Merc is very quiet & refined as it should be for its 6 figure price tag but there is still the rpm factor when the accelerator is pressed & the inevitable torque delay. I get in my MG4 & feel totally relaxed accelerate away with effortless smooth power, absolutely no noise and instant torque off the line. It is impossible to explain, you have to experience it. EVs are the future now, ICEs are last century. One moving part that rotates compared to hundreds of moving parts going up & down & all directions trying to tear themselves apart generating 30% of power & 70% or heat from the fuel consumed compared to close to 100% power from the energy consumed. No contest.

Edited June 19 by kgwilson

[spacesailor]

If the world had gone a different way .

It would be a small delay ' connecting the trolley poles ' onto the free public overhead " trolly-bus " wires .

batteries not required .

spacesailor

[red750]

[old man emu]

I'm giving up.

 

I reckon I've got more chance of getting a vegan to wear a genuine mink coat to a bar-b-que than getting the "converted" to concede anything other than 100% adoption of EVs in less than the length of time it took for ICEs to be adopted to a much lower level.

 

I'm also giving up trying to be even-handed, by saying that the vehicle themselves are not the immediate problem, but that the present infrastructure is not up to meeting their need.

 

I'm also giving up trying to ask that any other factors affecting the conversion be considered  and discussed. 

 

I'm also giving up asking the Pauline question, "Please explain" to find out simple things like noise from the interaction o tyres on the road, or road surface conditions on ride comfort.

[old man emu]

I know that no one will watch this video because it begins with a discussion of a major fire in a storage battery facility by an experienced fire-fighting instructor. However towards the end the fact that the technology is outpacing the ability to develop adequate safety regulations to protect people living nearby.

 

 

[octave]

3 minutes ago, old man emu said:

to concede anything other than 100% adoption of EVs in less than the length of time it took for ICEs to be adopted to a much lower level.

I doubt you can find anywhere I have or anyone has said that. I have on many occasions said that for many people (including me) that EV may not yet be the best choice at this point.  @kgwilsonless-than-perfect has mentioned less than perfect charging infrastructure.  

 

10 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I'm also giving up trying to be even-handed, by saying that the vehicle themselves are not the immediate problem, but that the present infrastructure is not up to meeting their need.

 

I have read back through the entire thread and I am having trouble identifying the "even-handedness"  You say the "vehicle is not the immediate problem"  but have been through all the usual objections like fires and battery recycling etc.

 

14 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I'm also giving up trying to ask that any other factors affecting the conversion be considered  and discussed. 

 

I think I always try to address everything I can but I am happy to consider any points I have ignored.

 

15 minutes ago, old man emu said:

also giving up asking the Pauline question, "Please explain" to find out simple things like noise from the interaction o tyres on the road, or road surface conditions on ride comfort

 

The first point is noise.  Quiet vehicles are just more pleasant to drive,  This also applies to IC vehicles. i am not sure why this is in question.   I posted a video of my son in an EV on a track day. In the full video, he is having a conversation with his offsider at a normal volume whilst driving fairly hard.  

 

We were once stuck in bumper to bumper traffic driving from Wellington to my son's home after an accident closed the main highway. The EV was much better in that crawling traffic which was quiet (except for the other cars) and smooth.  By contrast, I had to drive to the airport the other day and the traffic at one stage was crawling.  In my car, this really sucks constantly pressing the clutch and crawling forward in 1st gear.

 

The thing is that with the greatest respect, you say you have never driven one and although I don't own one I do get to drive one for a few weeks every year. @kgwilson owns one.    Whatever the reason we feel that an EV is more pleasant to drive, we are not making it up.   Perhaps if you feel passionate enough you could try and have a drive and then your argument might hold more weight.

 

EV drive days

 

 

[octave]

23 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I know that no one will watch this video because it begins with a discussion of a major fire in a storage battery facility by an experienced fire-fighting instructor. However towards the end the fact that the technology is outpacing the ability to develop adequate safety regulations to protect people living nearby.

 

 

 

Well, I always watch what people post.   He does make some very good points.  There are many facilities I would not want to live too close to if possible.  Firefighters have a difficult job and it does constantly change.  Chemical fires are not unheard of.

 

One man killed in explosion at a Derrimut factory

 

I certainly agree that huge battery facilities should not be close to houses although I am relatively comfortable with house batteries or even community batteries. Technology has always moved ahead and we have had to learn how to deal with things when they go wrong.  Aviation? Nuclear Power?  I am not sure how many large battery facilities there are in the world (I will try to find out the number) but these things are not bursting into flames all over the place.

In another thread, we are talking about Nuclear power.  People who are for acknowledge that there have been serious accidents but also point out the low odds of an accident.   I would imagine that firefighters in this country do not have expertise in fighting a fire in a nuclear power plant.  

[facthunter]

You're NOT even handed OME. You are a "knocker".  That's OK and allowed but recognise it. People who point out advantages HERE are not necessarily "ZEALOTS". They are passing on information in response your statements mostly. and make a good attempt to stick to verifiable facts...  Citroen are trying to match the Chinese for price now. Lots of others just put up high TARIF barriers  . WE don't have a car manufacturing Industry to protect.  We may end up with the cheapest Ev's in the world . Nev. 

[pmccarthy]

My only experience of electric was not that they were quieter. Apparently the tyres are hard and high pressured, with low profiles, to reduce rolling resistance, which makes road noise. My ICE car can have a softer, quieter tyre. But that is a very small sample of experience.

[facthunter]

That's mostly about the mass of the car. Some luxury ICE cars are also very heavy. Lots of Aluminium in a Tesla and a lot of items don't even have to be there in a straight  EV. No clutch or gearbox etc. Nev

[octave]

5 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

Apparently the tyres are hard and high pressured, with low profiles, to reduce rolling resistance, which makes road noise

 

There is always tyre noise but the overall noise is lower.   I have driven 3 EVS a Leaf, a BMWI3 and a Tesla I have also been a passenger in a BYD Atto 3.   Yes, there is road noise from the tyres but what is missing is engine noise.  In an IC car going up a hill involves changing down which does create a change in the engine volume/pitch and also driving up a hill.    One of the things I enjoy about driving an EV when in NZ is the ease with which you drive up hills.  There is no need to manage the engine. This also applies to coming down a hill, no need to change down due to regenerative braking.   A fun fact is my son lives at the top of a huge and long hill.  When driving down it you end up with more in the battery than you started with, of course, this is more than compensated for on the way up. Driving up this hill is fun though, it is a 3-lane road and the Tesla will comfortably pass all the other cars.

[spacesailor]

But

I , like changing the gears ! .

It makes Me feel I'm in control. 

Not the A bloody I, that I have to disable when I need full control .

Not waiting for AI to help stop my two ton 4X4 hurtling down a very steep hillside , when " off-roading ".

spacesailor

[facthunter]

I would think at the point where you are changing gears, you have less control.  Nev

[octave]

7 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

But

I , like changing the gears ! .

It makes Me feel I'm in control. 

Not the A bloody I, that I have to disable when I need full control .

Not waiting for AI to help stop my two ton 4X4 hurtling down a very steep hillside , when " off-roading ".

 

And you will be able to do this for many years to come.   You and I will be long gone before that choice doesn't exist

[kgwilson]

Going up hills is is one of the reasons for my comment that power is effortless. You don't put your foot down at all even without cruise control on. The electric motor never has to rev harder and you can't hear it anyway. If you check the power value on the screen it will increase and decrease depending on the incline and goes negative (& turns green on my car) when going down an incline which means it is putting energy back in to the battery. If you are coming down a lengthy incline you will have gained some range by the time you get to the bottom.

 

My car has 2 noise generators. The reverse noise generator sounds a bit like a reversing whine from a gearbox and is always on in reverse. The forward noise generator is a more subtle whine/woosh sound that cuts out at 35 kmh when tyre noise is loud enough to alert pedestrians. The electric traction motor makes no sound at all that I can hear.

 

The kerb weight of my MG4 Essence 64 is 1672 KG which is no heavier than many ICE cars and lighter than pretty much all SUVs and 4WDs. After 13,000 km to date there is no noticeable tyre wear.

 

[red750]

The neighbours Tesla beeps like a truck or fork lift when he backs into his garage.

[red750]

Where do you carry your surfboard on a Tesla Model X?

 

[octave]

15 minutes ago, red750 said:

Where do you carry your surfboard on a Tesla Model X?

 

Whilst on holiday in NZ on the South Island we travelled in one of these from Lake Teanu to Milford Sound and back.  We had 4 options to get there, we could have driven our rental car (didn't fancy that) or go on a coach with a herd of other tourists or fly (next time).

The Tesla X is a great car however I am not sure it makes sense as a family car, given the price.   The journey was extremely comfortable and the quietness allowed the knowledgeable driver to point out the sights and give us some of the history.