old man emu Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Enlarge the picture and tell me if you can see a service brake pedal (foot brake). D EVs have hydraulically activated brakes, or is all through electric servos? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 In the above photo, the accelerator is obscured by the centre console, the small pedal is the brake. Here is another view I had to digitally enhance to show both pedals and the left foot rest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 It would have an electronically operated handbrake as do many modern cars regardless of how they are propelled. I found the handbrake on the Tesla to be very user-friendly and effective. What is an electronic handbrake? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 EV brakes are hydraulic like any other car. Mine has multiple brake assist features and most modern ICE cars have these as well. All these systems are automatically applied by electronics determined by what the software has been programmed to do when it detects certain conditions. Brake force can be applied to all or any wheel or combination of wheels. If the inbuilt radar and camera detect an obstacle or possible collision the brakes are automatically applied. For example I was driving down a suburban street and a woman stepped off the kerb between 2 cars. The car thought she was going to step into my path & slammed on the brakes. In fact she turned right and went to the drivers door from the front. I think the cars software did the right thing. This has happened a few times when reversing out of an angle park as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The MG 4 is the first car I've had with an electric hand brake. It is just a press of the gear selector dial to activate. Numerous cars have these now. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, red750 said: Is this overkill or what? The cockpit of an Xpeng G9 SUV, scheduled to be introduced in Australia in 2025. Claims a range of 700 km on a single charge. Looks like my screen setup for Work from Home. Is that the next evolution - Work from Car? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Some of the Chinese EV manufacturers have gone right over the top with all the screens some taking up almost the entire dashboard. Tesla though has opted for one centre screen which I personally do not like. It does make it easy for left or right hand drive but I prefer to have all the driving info directly in front of me. My MG has a screen directly in front of the driver with driving info like speed/odometer, battery %, power use, regen, ACC, driving mode, tyre pressures etc, and another bigger one in the centre with all the infotainment, Satnav, HVAC, car settings etc on it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 There is an increasing clamour for the return of knobs and switches to cars, instead of "touch screen everything" controls. There's two reasons for this clamour. Familiar knob and switch placement is in our collective driving memory skills. Having to look for a spot on a screen to tap to operate a certain car function (lights, wipers, heating and cooling, etc, etc) is a distracting and time-consuming and dangerous nuisance. And when your screen goes blank with an electronic failure, what do you do then, for vehicle controls? - and what kind of huge cost are you going to be up for, for a whole new screen assembly and installation? This kind of electronic crap has about half the lifespan of normal switches and buttons and controls, so it's a valid argument, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The hand-operated lever brake used to be called the emergency brake. It was there for use should the service brake system fail, and for parking. The hand-operated brake usually only worked on the rear wheels, so braking effectiveness was low, but there still was some braking which the driver could control. A push-button brake does not give that control. Besides, you can't do handbrake turns if you don't have a hand-operated brake working on the rear wheels. I am not happy with the degree that control of a vehicle is being removed from the driver. KGWilson's example raises this point. If a following vehicle had run into his car, who would have been at fault? My policeman's investigation would conclude that, at law, it was an unavoidable accident, or maybe I could conclude that KGW did not have proper control of his vehicle. But what would the decision in civil law be? Would the insurance company blame KGW ot the other driver? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 5 minutes ago, old man emu said: A push-button brake does not give that control In what sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) My Delica has all the Old crap switches .that we owners are warned against using, as they can play up & leave the driver without certain functions . Like no top gear ( overdrive ) ,or no first gear (none skid start ) . Two separate switches/buttons . ( if towing don't use o/d , on snow or icy roads select " none skid start " ). On our newer Pajero, remove " traction control " fuse , for sand driving. Is the norm for " offroading " I've failed to find the correct fuse . ( ruining the brake pads) . spacesailor Edited July 5 by spacesailor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 There are way too many sensors and "driver aids" on todays cars, and it's "dumbing down" the average driver, with many people today not even having enough driving skills to know whether their headlights are on at night, or not. The number of drivers I see who have no idea what lights they have on (or don't have on), at night time, in urban areas, is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, octave said: In what sense? Electric park brake application is binary. There is no possibility of gradual application of this brake. Further, I am not sure, but I suspect that software might prohibit application of electric park brakes if the vehicle is in motion? Therefore there is no 'emergency brake' function that a conventional hand brake can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, onetrack said: dumbing down" the average driver, This is a requisite for gaining the public acceptance of autonomous vehicles. After dumbing down, the average casual driver will welcome the sense of trust in the new "properly trained" computer driving their autonomous car, as it will easily exceed his dumbed down human driving skills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 13 minutes ago, nomadpete said: I am not sure, but I suspect that software might prohibit application of electric park brakes if the vehicle is in motion? No that is not right. Edited July 5 by octave 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Stepdaughters Subaru Forester has an electric handbrake, and it's a PIA. Most electric handbrakes have special instructions on how to use them for emergency stopping. Some of them, you have to hold the button in at speed to keep them actuated for emergency braking. Others have specific model instructions. Electronic park brakes have advanced substantially in design, just in the last 15 years - most park brake designs today have electric motors operating the park brake system directly. Of course, because CANBUS networks now totally rule all the vehicles electrics and electronics, the park brake has now become integrated into the CANBUS network, and all the designated electronic parameters have be in place, before they work! You now need an OBD reader (On-Board Diagnostics) to find the DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) for the handbrake! https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/service-repair/the-garage/article/21177205/unlock-the-secrets-of-electronic-parking-brakes https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/service-repair/undercar/article/21290213/push-button-parking-electronic-parking-brake-operation-and-diagnosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 My 5 year old Prado has never said an intelligent word. Then on Tuesday it said that there were roadworks ahead and offered an alternative route. I just had it serviced, and suspect that they upgraded the software or turned something on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 30 minutes ago, onetrack said: Of course, because CANBUS networks now totally rule all the vehicles electrics and electronics, So let's hope the bus doesn't go down. After all, although the data ring is robust, it isn't mouseproof. And if there is a comms fault (data air gap), that's probably the sort of time you might need to put an emergency brake to use. Not a high probability, but maybe a significant outcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 43 minutes ago, nomadpete said: it isn't mouseproof. Now there's a problem we tend to overlook, especially in the urban areas. I noticed that something seems to have nibbled a wire in my engine bay. I've got paddocks all around my place and there's mice out in them. A bloke I know who live nearby had his relatively new vehicle put out of action because rats chewed through his wiring harness. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 My daughters new car had both of the rear ' seatbelts ', Eaten through by rats or mice . Luckily we managed to replace them at very " backyard " garage rates . Four hours on the front lawn , with half the interior strewn around the car . Great picture it would have made. spacesailor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The emergency brake on the MG4 is the black flush mounted lever to the right of the rotary gear selector. It also actuates the parking brake but I never use it as the simple option is to press the rotary gear selector when the car is stopped. This takes the car out of drive or reverse & applies the parking brake automatically. For emergency braking you just pull the lever up with a couple of fingers and it is activated for as long as you have it pulled up.. I've never tested it though. All these electronic systems have to comply with ANCAP safety procedures so they have various parallel systems operating them in case 1 fails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 9 hours ago, spacesailor said: My daughters new car had both of the rear ' seatbelts ', Eaten through by rats or mice . Luckily we managed to replace them at very " backyard " garage rates . Where can you buy replacement rats these days? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 West of Toowoomba the mice are usually in minor plague proportions every year. It is common to leave the bonnet open when you park up for the night as this discourages rats and mice from setting up nests. Damaged wiring (and small hoses) is very common. I sometimes wonder robust the wiring is on new cars (both EV & legacy types) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 It's not just wiring, one chewed the top of the radiator overflow bottle in our last car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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