Electric car thread

[octave]

3 minutes ago, onetrack said:

You would end up paying nearly as much to recharge your EV, as it would to refill your IC-powered vehicle with petrol. We have to be careful what we wish for, and ensure we retain public control of important things such as energy generation and charging infrastructure.

I guess one advantage of electricity is that it is possible to provide it yourself either with your grid supply or solar.  Charging networks will be  in competition with grid-supplied to the house and home-generated electricity.

 

Oil companies have a bit of a monopoly on the product they sell.

[onetrack]

Octave - but publically-owned power generation facilities are regularly sold to private enterprise, on the basis that "they are more efficient". The record stands that this is not true, and when private enterprises are allowed to own major public infrastructure, the end result is always outrageously increased charges and huge profits being generated by those entities.

Would you like Clive Palmer to own a majority proportion of your public power generation/recharging infrastructure?

The idea leaves me deeply concerned, but it is a real possibility, and one that would be highly detrimental financially to the average person, as greedy Clive sought to ensure he became Australia's first trillionaire on the back of price gouging for electricity.

 

Edited July 11 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Monopoly is what you must avoid. The Sun is there for the taking at a safe distance and assured to be around for a long time.. This gives the Individual POWER. Thats why many oppose it. Their ability to  exploit is gone and they don't like that, one bit.  Nev

[octave]

Onetrack,

I think I am suggesting that electricity supplied by the grid and power generators and retailers will be in competition with electricity supplied from my roof.  If I had an EV I would look for a source of electricity that is a reasonable price. I am not necessarily talking about competion between retailers

[octave]

28 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

I have just changed to an electricity supply plan that provides me with free power for 2 hours a day every day from midday to 2pm.

The fact that KGW gets 2 hours of free power to charge his car is not because the power company are being nice.  Keeping the grid going is about matching use with supply.  There are various dips during the day and overnight.  It is advantageous to the power generators not to curtail production too much because it can be inefficient.    The example often given by the EV doubters is that "everyone will get home from work and plug their car in and this will bring down the grid"   With variable pricing charging this way will cost more.  My son's Tesla is plugged in a couple of times a week (normally).  When he gets home from work he plugs it in but it does not charge straight away. in the early hours, it starts charging automatically and he only pays a few cents a KWh   

 

Just going back to the grid.  I think there is a lack of imagination of future (and even present-day) tech.   Think back to the late 80s. I remember getting into computing.  I had bought an early modem and used to connect to bulletin boards at some ridiculously slow rate.   If someone had told me that in my lifetime we would be downloading gigs of data, watching our television over the net and video calling our friends and relatives I might have been sceptical.    If I had been told that almost every house would be connected by cable or fibre or wirelessly I would have said "ya dreaming"

 

If our communications "grid" for want of a better word has developed this much I am pretty certain that our power grid has plenty of potential.   

[pmccarthy]

I agree about the web and modem speeds, it amazes me. I think about those early modems when I hear Magpies warbling.

[facthunter]

There are many parts of Australia where the Grid will NEVER reach, and it will always be subject to damage by extreme weather or poor maintenance, where it exists.. It CAN be made failsafe to a point by duplication or LOOP s.  Distance  equals losses of efficiency as well as great ongoing costs..  Nev

[onetrack]

The further out you are, the better the opportunity for generating power via wind and solar. I can remember working gold operations South of Laverton, W.A. in the late 1980's, the wind started up at sunrise and it blew steadily all day, and on 95% of the days. Add to the vast amounts of sunshine out there, and you'd be a mug to rely on power generation located on the coast.

[Jerry_Atrick]

6 hours ago, old man emu said:

Finally! You agree with what I am saying as the situation stands in July 2024.

For context, the above is in response to this:

 

Tfe anti-EV argument based on the grid, today, not being able to handle 100% EV adoption is, well, illogical (I am not sayine OME is arguing anti-EV based on this, BTW). The percentage of cars on the road in July 2024 are nowhere near being able to bring down the grid today. It stands to reason that as the demand for electrickery grows, so too will the capacity of the grid. There are people, some very smart people, who curnch the numbers, forecast demand, and plan investment to meet that demand and provide a return on that investment. The powers that be decide whether or not that investment takes place. Call me cynical, but if politics is involved in that decision, then the decision won't be purely in meeting community needs, even at a profit - while they have their sponsors - er donors.

 

Remember this famous quote:

Edited July 11 by Jerry_Atrick

[spacesailor]

Banns on IC vehicles. 

Lots of major cities  have banned IC cars .

Norway is banning IC cars in January 2025 .

( petrol & diesel ) .

Alternative to fossil fuel . Chicken shit gas .

1972 an Australian touted using the abundant resources 

from the poultry industry,  as an Alternative to fossil fuel. 

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

These governements (and even BoJo) are ab bit more progressive than ours, with respect to climare. They also build good public transport infrastructure and continually invest in it; they build quality cycling routes, yet do allow motorised vehicles where required. I paid £35 for the privilege of driving my old XC90 within the permiter of the M25 under the ULEZ (Ultra-Low Emission Zone) charge. If you want to get people to change their ways for the better of society and the planet, you have to take the lead, and sometimes this means outright banning something.

Everyone likes progress, no one likes change; sometimes it does and to be robustly encouraged.

[octave]

25 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Norway is banning IC cars in January 2025 .

( petrol & diesel ) .

I am pretty sure that is sales of new fossil fuel cars, not existing cars.  Norway has 100% renewable power from hydro and wind, It has built great charging infrastructure so it is a bit of a no brainer really

[spacesailor]

A " no brainer " would be to put the trolley wires back up 

( old tram system ) then cars would not need dangerous batteries . 

Old is new again .  

spacesailor

PS : Old name " tram  " ,

Is. ,  New name " light rail ".

OLD NAME " BATTERY CONVEYANCE ". 

new name EV vehicle. 

 

Edited July 11 by spacesailor
PS added

[octave]

2 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

then cars would not need dangerous batteries . 

If batteries are so dangerous you would expect this to show up in the statistics of a country like Norway.

 

It is a fact that EV battery fires are much rarer than petrol car fires.  It is true that a Lithium Ion battery fire is more tricky to put out it is not a common problem.   Many new EVs now use LFP and some are now using Sodium- ion both exceedingly fire-safe.

[spacesailor]

Every street & road in Australia has overhead wires . Why not use them. 

The cost is on your registration K's .

Not just vehicle batteries but house & toy batteries. 

Like that big recall of house batteries that can 'quoted '

"Catch fire & damage your home" .

spacesailor 

[old man emu]

56 minutes ago, octave said:

Norway has 100% renewable power from hydro and wind

Not quite. Wind, solar, coal and natural gas are all in the mix. Solar is a bit of a dud due to low numbers of sunny days. Coal is used on one of Norway's islands since it is mined o that island. There are about 65 windfarms which produced in 2021 11.8 TWh or 8.5% of Norway's needs. There are three gas burning sites, but these are not much used. Hydro provides about 95% of the generated electricity. Part of the reason that so much of Norway’s electricity can be generated from hydropower is due to the natural advantage of its topography, with abundant steep valleys and rivers. Norway produces more than enough electricity for its population and even exports it.

 

Norway also has a land area of 385,207 sq km and a population of 5,550,203, giving it a population density of 14.4 persons per sq km. It is only about 1700 kms in length and about 150 km wide for most of that length. It's pretty obvious that things like range anxiety wouldn't be much of a concern. 

[octave]

17 minutes ago, old man emu said:

It's pretty obvious that things like range anxiety wouldn't be much of a concern. 

I would disagree. There are 2 challenges in Norway, cold and hills.  I don't really think for the most part range is a problem here. People even in the country are diving EVs   Regional Queenslanders say electric vehicles worth it for fuel savings but challenges remain    The point I am trying to make with Norway is that yes it is smaller in size and has a smaller population it is able to provide a comprehensive charging network without the grid melting and without cars bursting into flames all over the place.  Obviously, we face different challenges here however I fear we are not good at preparing for the future.   Why should we keep importing oil when we have the natural resources to produce electricity?  We also have nearly all of the minerals to produce our own batteries.    If nothing else simple self-sufficiency is a good reason not to rely on oil from the Middle East.

 

17 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Not quite.

Yes I think the figure as of 2020 was 98%   https://www.iea.org/reports/norway-2022/executive-summaryF

 

Anyway bottom line.... don't buy one if you don't want to

Edited July 11 by octave

[spacesailor]

Living in a city that " banns " IC VEHICLES. 

What choice do you have .

I know of one individual who has ditched his IC " car "

And bought an exempted short " lorry " .

Expensive to register.  But he is a happy chappie .

Now .

Londoner  UK

spacesailor

PS  : he has a ' fencing ' business  to circumvent their laws .

He normally drives a top of the line Audi .

Edited July 12 by spacesailor
PS added

[Jerry_Atrick]

Spacey - I call BS, assuming his top of the line Audi is less than 8 years old. There is no ULEZ charge for cars that meet the requirements, and most cars made after 2016 meet the requirements and I just checked the Audi RS7, A8 and AQ8, and they all meet the requierments not to pay the charge.

 

If it's more than 8 years old, it is hardly top of the line Audi stuff anymore.

 

And if he is driving a commercial vehicle on business, then they still have to meet the standards, but they are lower. Then threre is the LEZ charge in certain areas anyway.

 

If he biought an "exempt" vehicle, would he not have been better trading up to a newer car that doesn't have the charge? Seems to me to be cutting one's nose off to spite one's face as rego is more expensive, fuel will be more expensive due to consumption, maintenance will be more expensive, parling will be more expensive, etc.

 

Seems a bit of a dumb decision to me.

Edited July 12 by Jerry_Atrick

[spacesailor]

He has previously hired commercial trucks .as needed.

As he doesn't live in London & whenever he gets a contract there, it's was cheaper. But.

Now, he can't drive himself ( in his Audi ) to check the new job .

So,  out with the Audi & park the new ride in London .

When he wants ,  not needs . In any area .

LEZ rings a bell !.

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

space I'm sending you a bill for my stress and anxiety pills. I'm collateral damage to your desire to be unhappy.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sounds more like he has a commercial reason to buy a truck than to not drive a car into London. As I said, his Aud has to be an  old car (by UK standards, anyway) not to be compliant.

 

Our mini can drive into London at any time and not have to pay the ULEZ charge, and it has a petrol engine. The XC90 is too old, so it only comes into London when the mini is in the repair shop (as it is at the moment).

 

[facthunter]

Have you got one of those Cute LATER mini's. They have a bit of a reputation for being a bit expensive to maintain.  Nev

[red750]

There are stories appearing on the internet about the selfish acts of some EV drivers. A story of a BYD left connected to a charrging station for more than six and a half hours in Qld, and a Tesla owner who sat in is car watching movies for four hours while connected to a free charger at a Woolies store in WA with a high speed supercharger just across the road.

[Jerry_Atrick]

9 hours ago, facthunter said:

Have you got one of those Cute LATER mini's. They have a bit of a reputation for being a bit expensive to maintain.  Nev

It is a 2016  Mini Countryman - literally one of the last before they were all hybrid. Yes, I have heard they are expensive to maintain and unreliable. But this one is a beaut. The service schedule is on condition, but I get the oil changed 6 monthly and a full service annually.. purs like a kitten and is reliable as. And despite its size (large for a mini) is an absolute hoot to drive.

 

So far, my only gripe with it is it is noisy on the motorway. But I have had it now for 5 years and 60,000 miles and it hasn't yet gone through the tyres - I think they make most of the motorway noise.

 

Here is a ReDriven review of them:

 

I worked out the on condition scam well before this vid was made.

 

BTW, that is the ecact mini we have, but we have diferent wheels. And, yes. it is my partner's, and yes she is arty - and a fashion designer by training.

Edited July 12 by Jerry_Atrick