Electric car thread

[red750]

This came up on Yahoo today.

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ev-driver-reveals-how-byd-compares-to-tesla-on-1800km-road-trip-081602217.html

[Jerry_Atrick]

Er the navigation system and glass roof have nothing to do with the power train and all EVs have range reduction at higher speeds..

 

Good journalism would have pointed that out and given a comparison of the reduced range of Teslas v BYDs at given speeds... in the same conditions 

Edited August 12 by Jerry_Atrick

[onetrack]

It's interesting the mention of the charging cable length variations, which obviously posed a major problem for the travellers.

I saw nothing mentioned about the lack of interchangeability between the multiple types of charge connectors.

This is something that needs to be addressed promptly, it's a nasty hidden downside of EV's. 

 

In the U.S., vandalisation of chargers is also a huge problem - from two sources - EV haters, and copper thieves. The latter are a constant headache anywhere copper is used in any quantity.

[old man emu]

It's surprising that travelling at highway speeds would cause an EV's battery to drain more quickly.

The route indicated in the article is mainly across plains country - flat land - except for the need to climb from the Liverpool Plains to Tenterfield. After Tenterfield, it's downhill. Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force. So, for the most part, once the car had reached  a steady cruising speed, the motor would only need to overcome rolling resistance and wind drag. Admittedly, there would be times on that route where slight climbs would be required, but what goes up, also comes down. Remember the old Rolls Canardly?

 

 

[red750]

A variety of Tesla<>BYD/MG charge adapters are available on eBay for around $50. 

[red750]

My daughter attended the EV motor show in Melbourne last weekend, having booked a test drive, but was told she would have to go to a dealership. In the info presentation, they said new batteries would be available soon which will give a 1000+ km range. She also saw the Xpeng eVTOL on display (not flying).

 

[onetrack]

Wind resistance is a big power-robber at speeds over about 80kmh. Then add in headwinds, which are common in flat lands in the interior, as the wind blows fairly steadily inland.

Plus, the inland regions often have deceptively long gradients with 50 - 100 metres gain and loss of altitude, even though the land appears to look flat. 

And weight is a killer. Going touring means carrying numerous extra items, and EV's are initially heavy, and have only a small carrying capacity, weight-wise, as compared to IC-engine vehicles.

[red750]

3 minutes ago, onetrack said:

EV's are initially heavy, and have only a small carrying capacity, weight-wise, as compared to IC-engine vehicles.

Which is why they generally don't have spare wheels.

[octave]

57 minutes ago, old man emu said:

It's surprising that travelling at highway speeds would cause an EV's battery to drain more quickly.

 

I think the issue is not so much inefficiency at cruise speed but efficiency at lower speeds.   

 

IC engines are extremely inefficient at low speeds and they get more efficient (to a certain point) at higher speeds.     Electric motors simply use more energy the faster they turn and generally there is no gearing. Also IC engines (generally) spend time idling at traffic lights etc.

 

Also regenerative breaking.

 

Why is the range of an EV less on the freeway than the city?

Edited August 13 by octave

[facthunter]

People steal fuel from ICE cars and it's easy to torch them on the side of the road Power in Powerlines is safer than large tankers rolling along in the traffic on city roads.. People are still running out of fuel and blocking traffic.. If you're only 1/4 full you don't have much range with an ICE car. . By the way the NEW full EV Toyota is actually a SUBARU..  Nev

[onetrack]

And that "no spare wheel" feature is something that is a real burden in rural and remote areas. The designers behind this "no spare wheel" principle work on the basis that help is only a short distance and a phone call away, as is typical in urban areas. That theory gets sorely tested once you get outside big cities.

 

Here's an example. A mate has a 2002 Falcon ute. He lives in Nannup W.A., a decidedly rural location. He takes off in the early morning to head to Perth for a mid-morning dental appointment, allowing 4 hours for a 3 hour trip.

His trip is via multiple country towns, many of them would be rated as "ghost towns" in U.S. terms, with low population numbers and a total lack of services. He's with the RAC of W.A., and has paid for a "roadside assist" service.

 

Not too many kms from Nannup, in a rural region, he gets a flat tyre. He pulls out his jack, and goes to lift the ute, and the (original Falcon) jack breaks!

He decides that rather than trying to stop someone and try to borrow a jack that may or may not work, he'll call the RAC.

 

He's fortunate in that he actually has a phone signal, lots of rural areas have no mobile phone service. If he didn't have a phone signal, he'd be dependent on another helpful motorist stopping.

Women make up a sizeable majority of vehicle drivers, and most women won't stop for a male looking for help by the roadside. They rate their personal safety highly and won't take risks.

 

He gets hold of the RAC and they advise they'll contact a local RAC agent to come out and assist him. 5 mins later they call back and say, "Sorry, we can't raise anyone, because it's 7:20AM and businesses don't open until 8:00AM, so you'll have to wait. Imagine if it was evening, he'd really have a decent wait until they could find someone willing to come out after business hours.

 

So, at 8:00AM, he gets a call from the RAC, saying there will be someone there shortly to help. About half an hour later, a mechanic from a nearby town turns up with tools and a jack, and they set about changing the flat. Incredibly, after pulling the spare out, his spare is flat as well! (most unusual for my mate, he's usually good on car maintenance).

 

So the mechanic then has to go and find a local tyre shop and get the spare repaired. He returns 45 mins later with the repaired spare and fits it, and off he goes. Total level of lost time, nearly 2 hours, a 2 hr wait on a freezing cold morning, and he ended up only just slightly late for his appointment, after calling ahead and telling them he's running late. The dental surgery is agreeable, they're behind schedule too, so all is well.

 

I wouldn't like to envisage what the circumstances would have been with an EV, with its special tyres that no-one in the country stocks. A mate runs a big country tyre repair/supply business and says he refuses to stock anything but mainstream sizes now, as the tyre sizes and types are so myriad today, that he'd need $5M to stock them all.

You're struggling to get tube-type tyres today, even though a lot of vehicles still use them - even trucks. You're struggling today to get many 14" and 15" tyre sizes, as "mainstream" car tyres are now 16", 17" and 18" - and even 20"! 

 

The EV's are still pretty strictly a city vehicle, where connectivity and support is substantial. Go outside the cities and you're going out on a limb with an EV. I'd dearly love to move over to an EV and get away from constant fuel purchases, but the reality is, I'm going to have to buy fuel for many years yet, as the economics and practicality of EV's simply don't stack up yet.

And don't even start me on towing and moving ute loads of stuff, that just wipes out any likelihood of an EV replacement for my diesel Hilux ute.

 

Edited August 13 by onetrack

[octave]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

And that "no spare wheel" feature is something that is a real burden in rural and remote areas.

No spare wheel is NOT purely an EV thing. Not having a spare is also an increasing feature of ALL cars.

 

Got a Spare? Not on These Cars

 

The thing that annoys me is the common media trick of taking something that may have a grain of truth and exaggerating it or taking a design disadvantage that applies to cars driven by electricity or fossil fuels but only making a fuss in relation to electric.  The argument about spare tyres is an argument is just that an argument about carrying a spare tyre and it applies to my petrol-driven car as well.    It is often said and I think has been said here that EV tyres are exotic and expensive and whilst you can go that way and pay a lot, in most cases you don't have to. Buy Tesla Model 3 Tyres from $169

My son has 3 cars. One is a motorsport car so obviously it doesn't carry a spare.   The Tesla did not come with a spare but he does have one in his garage and could easily carry it if he thought it necessary. His other car is a tiny petrol-powered convertible and not only does it not come with a spare but if you wanted to carry a spare you couldn't, there is no room.  My gripe is that my son's convertible without spare would not make it into a newspaper article purely because it is not electric. 

 

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

And don't even start me on towing and moving ute loads of stuff, that just wipes out any likelihood of an EV replacement for my diesel Hilux ute.

 

Whilst an EV is probably not yet suitable for you this argument tends to get distilled by others down to "you can't tow with an EV"  Of course it has a substantial effect on your range but you can tow.  Here is a picture of my son's Tesla.   It tows this boat regularly. This boat,  now finished has substantially more mass with its wooden masts etc.   Of course, you would probably not want to tow this across the country however but this is so often misrepresented in the media

 

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

The number of EV SUVs and UTEs is expanding rapidly & most have pretty big batteries. Power out put is generally much higher that for petrol or diesel variants and torque is available from 0 RPM. The issue is there are not many available in Australia yet and the cost is high. They are very versatile for a Tradie who may not do that many km per day and can use the power to load to provide battery charging for tools where no mains exists or 230 volts for big circular saws, lighting etc.

 

There is a new Caravan in the US called the LightShip RV.The roof has 10kW of solar panels & battery and it has an E-Axle so the towing vehicle can run very efficiently. It can be used to power your house when parked outside as well. It is tall but the entire top section lowers for towing to reduce drag. Designed by a couple of ex Tesla engineers. It ain't cheap but neither is a large standard caravan. It has a fantastic future and is probably the benchmark for others to follow.

 

 

[kangaroojack]

yeah the charging situation sounds frustrating, i’ve heard similar stories from friends with non-tesla evs. might be worth getting one of those adapters someone mentioned, could save a lot of hassle on long trips

[spacesailor]

You can, like the NRMA , tow a petrol/diesel generator set , on 

a trailer ,  it can take other heavy items like the freezer. 

spacesailor

[kgwilson]

21 hours ago, kangaroojack said:

yeah the charging situation sounds frustrating, i’ve heard similar stories from friends with non-tesla evs. might be worth getting one of those adapters someone mentioned, could save a lot of hassle on long trips

All it takes is a little trip planning and there are plenty of apps available to do that. All of the apps state which charging cables they have. Only the very early Teslas have the standard Tesla charging port and at Tesla charging stations they will usually have one of the original Tesla cables. This is the one least likely to be in use.

 

Some Tesla charging stations are only available for Tesla owners because these were installed entirely at Teslas cost. Any installed after government incentives came in to play must be available to all EVs. Also all EVs imported in to Australia since 2020 are required to have a CCS 2 (combined charging system 2) port. Only pre 2020 Teslas had the Tesla port and old Nissan Leafs and some Japanese plug in hybrids have the CHaDeMo port.

[kgwilson]

My MG 4 came with a Satnav system and has its own inbuilt GPS & Esim. Wherever I am, I can click on the Navigation icon & choose chargers & it will show all chargers within current battery range. Usually there are heaps. Drilling down will show the exact location, Charger brand, number of them and speed 50 kW, 350kW etc. Plugshare and ABRP (a better route planner) APPs for your phone show how many of the chargers are currently in use & can be used with Android Auto or Apple carplay.

 

An upgrade to the MG system will show all Chargers along the chosen route with details as before, the time to get there and estimated battery level on arrival. Choosing one of these then directs you to that charger. I've not had the upgrade installed as I don't go on long trips often & the existing system is good enough anyway. I am happy that my normal weekly driving costs me nothing in fuel costs at all.

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, kgwilson said:

I've not had the upgrade installed

I think that those here who are more "in the know" will advise you to install every software update as it becomes available because if you miss a few and want to install an update in twelve or eighteen months' time, it might need stuff that was in earlier updates. If the updates are free, why not?

[facthunter]

IF it affects the way your car behaves, Yes. The other  is "nice to have". (like current speed limits.)  Nev

[spacesailor]

This tablet has been begging to let me update .

I checked what is on offer ,

there is nothing I need , or want. 

. If I update it will install , new items I don't want .

Like ' split screen ' . 

Can I deleat it after was5ing time installing . 

Or live with another PITA .

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

Just check the updates don't include security updates as well. You will want them, even if you don't transact through your tablet.

[kgwilson]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

I think that those here who are more "in the know" will advise you to install every software update as it becomes available because if you miss a few and want to install an update in twelve or eighteen months' time, it might need stuff that was in earlier updates. If the updates are free, why not?

Infotainment updates are completely separate to any system updates. While the car is capable of over the air (OTA) updates MG have not yet invoked this & I have to drive in to the dealer after making an appointment & leave the car while they plug in a PC or whatever. If it is not an essential or fix update they won't do it under warranty so I'll have to pay. But if I wait till the next scheduled service I get every update there is. The car is a year old & its first scheduled service is in a years time. The updates I know of are mostly cosmetic so I am not bothered as everything works anyway.

Edited August 17 by kgwilson

[red750]

I have seen an animation on the website of the features of the MG EV, and I guesss yours is the same, kg, where it reads the speed limit signs and adjusts the speed accordingly. Another feature was the ability to detect danger  when backing out of a parking spot when your view is blocked by a van or large SUV. Also the automatic dipping of headlights when a vehicle is coming the other way, and automatic slowing when a traffic jam is in front of you.

 

I saw a news report of an Australian invention to be fitted to traffic lights which transmits info to vehicles that the lights are about to change so that the vehicle will slow and stop, effectively eliminating running a red light.

 

[nomadpete]

31 minutes ago, red750 said:

I have seen an animation on the website of the features of the MG EV, and I guesss yours is the same, kg, where it reads the speed limit signs and adjusts the speed accordingly. Another feature was the ability to detect danger  when backing out of a parking spot when your view is blocked by a van or large SUV. Also the automatic dipping of headlights when a vehicle is coming the other way, and automatic slowing when a traffic jam is in front of you.

 

I saw a news report of an Australian invention to be fitted to traffic lights which transmits info to vehicles that the lights are about to change so that the vehicle will slow and stop, effectively eliminating running a red light.

 

My friend's new Hyundai has all those safety features. It has no spare tyre, but does have a SOS button on the roof console. Note it isn't  EV.

As well as adaptive cruise control (responding to speed signs), it has auto lane keeping, and auto distance maintenance from the car in front. So that it is nearly autonomous when driving on a highway.

 

Much of what people go on about EV's applies equally to all kinds of modern car.

[Jerry_Atrick]

EVs use a different motor and fuel system, with regen braking... that is about the difference between them and ICE cars..