Electric car thread

[octave]

Weight has become more of an issue over the years with modern cars of all types getting chubbier.   Near us, a new dealership has opened up selling these monstrosities at over 3000kg.    I think there should be a financial penalty for excessively heavy vehicles of any sort.   

 

 

 

 

I think range anxiety may abate somewhat as infrastructure improves.   Most of us most of the time don't travel long distances daily. This of course is not the case in country areas.

 

Aa the Drive article says SUVs are the most popular cars sold and their sales exceed sedans and hatchbacks.

 

 

I am not saying weight is not an issue but it is often put forward as a reason why EVs are bad but not applied to other heavier vehicles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by octave

[facthunter]

Some of those big looking trucks are not that heavy at all but they can usually tow and a lot of Australians want be able to do that Maybe some day we may be able to charge moving electric vehicle by INDUCTION from the road surface as you drive.   Nev

[old man emu]

Battery swapping has been common from the first battery powered vehicles. The swapping procedure itself is not the problem. Ignoring the size and weight of an EVs battery it should be no more difficult than changing the batteries in a TV's remote control unit. For the owner it is the cost of the battery pack itself.

 

Hey Jerry!!! Can you do the maths for the depreciation of a vehicle at accepted Tax Office rates? I doubt if the rate in the UK would be much different than that in Australia. How long would a $40K take to be considered only worth its scrap value. Use a scrap value for an EV battery of $US40.00 per kWh and the car has a 50 kWh battery.

[facthunter]

Plenty of good EV's would be curtailed by having swappable standard sized Batteries. The vehicle has to be built around it to do a professional job.  Nev

[willedoo]

I don't know if anyone still makes a small ute. The modern ones seem to be styled to sell as a poor man's F truck. The dual cab utes with a tub are physically big now, but they will still only fit a toolbox and packed lunch in the back. Their only use is towing ability, probably due to increased vehicle weight. As an example, I have a 2002 Holden Rodeo with a maximum towing capability of 1800kg.. The Holden Colorado that replaced it is rated to tow 3500kg..

[facthunter]

Most vehicles keep growing. I can't recall any going the other way.  The HP of some of these vehicles is quite startling, but it's tamed well in some of them. Some of the springing could be improved with the more basic of models. We are driving longer distances to work sites than before so need more comfort.  Nev

[spacesailor]

That " towing ratings ' . is to ' appease ' the ' Bureaucratic ' 2014 laws .

So , when stuck behind  a " big rig " . Remember " IT'S THE LAW .

AND They Have to keep ( miles ) behind the rig in front of them .

spacesailor

[red750]

Americans need those big trucks so Walmart shoppers can get their groceries home.

 

[spacesailor]

ALL the Tesla cars in America are to be updated after a spate of crashes,  some fatal .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Yeah people are thinking it's an autopilot. Proves fools make foolproof anything an impossibility.   Nev

[Marty_d]

Someone was telling me the other day about a friend who had bought a new $80k ute - but still kept his old one.  Why?  Because he wasn't going to risk damaging his new ute by putting anything in the tray.

 

WTF....

[red750]

Parking spaces have to be redesigned for the big vehicles. Get one of them park beside you and you can't get your door open. Reduced number of vehicles in a given space.

 

[red750]

Streaing movie Leave The World Behind

 

 

Starring Julia Roberts, Ethan Hawke and Kevin Bacon, the film logline reads: “A family’s vacation is upended when two strangers arrive at night, seeking refuge from a cyberattack that grows more terrifying by the minute, forcing everyone to come to terms with their places in a collapsing world.”

And viewers reckon the film makes a comment on our own take on the world.

Heads up, there will be spoilers ahead.

 

In the viral TikTok, a user calls it ‘lowkey scary when you actually pay attention to what’s happening’.

 

During one scene a pile-up of Tesla Model 3 cars block the characters’ exit route as a catastrophic tech blackout erupts.

 

Turns out the self-driving cars have been hacked to block the road and mow down anyone who gets in their way, and the user says they ‘don’t f**k with them’.

 

The scene even managed to get the attention of Elon Musk, as some felt the film was calling out Tesla.

 

Others commented to point out what they think is the ‘real message’ of the film.

 

So, basically, at the end of the movie, mum Amanda is out looking for her daughter Rose, who has gone missing.

 

In the final scene, Rose finds a neighbour's bunker and picks up a DVD of the final season of Friends and as that familiar theme song kicks in, the film credits roll.

 

Rose has spent the entire movie devastated that the apocalyptic mayhem has prevented her from watching the final Friends episode - so it's a definite win for her, but some fans reckon it has deeper symbolic meaning.

[nomadpete]

Thanks for the warning.

I don't think I need to watch another  Hollywood  doomsday flick.

 

The USA doesn't need to wait for a cyber attack on automobiles in order to self destruct.

[pmccarthy]

Watched it tonight, a pointless load of carp and 2.4 hours I will never get back.

[onetrack]

Re the swappable batteries - there are hidden advantages. 

 

1. It makes the EV cheaper to buy because the battery cost can be a monthly or weekly lease cost.

2. The EV buyer can choose whether to pay more lease money for a bigger battery for a long trip.

3. Your battery condition is guaranteed, just like your BBQ gas bottle is checked and tested.

4. Your battery is never going to be a frightening replacement cost figure 8 or 10 years down the track, because you don't need to outlay money for a new battery.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by onetrack

[Litespeed]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

There's another concern being raised over EV's (and big SUV's as well) - and that is their excessive levels of weight, which pose a big problem in any major crash.

 

The vast majority of EV's weigh over 2 tonnes, and these heavy vehicles pose a bigger threat to other road users simply because a really heavy vehicle hitting yours at speed is going to cause more damage to you and your car, than a lighter one does.

 

And the problem is that EV owners are going for bigger, heavier batteries, because of range anxiety.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/suvs-electric-cars-safety-concern-euro-ncap/

That is a real issue but given the massively fat ice vehicles we buy eg. mainly huge utes and SUVs are the biggest sellers, it's a small issue.

 

Your much more likely to see 2.5 tonnes of useless ute/4wd coming to kill you than a electric vehicle.

 

The average electric car is magnitudes safer to crash into than the average tradie ute esp with wanker bull bar.

[Litespeed]

As far as damage repair, battery packs are a bonus not liability.

 

To damage the pack will normally mean complete destruction of a ice engine, which means the wreck is almost worthless. The battery pack can be checked, modified, reconfigured into a commercially valuable power system for.a home or boat power system.

 

The system from a write-off telsa is still viable for multiple uses. A ice car written off enough to damage a centrally mounted battery pack is just scrap metal and total loss.

 

A modern taxi Camry squashed to the b pillar still has a hugely valuable pack to harvest. What's left of the rest is just scrap.

 

The economics of ev damaged are far better than any ice car/,truck,/ute. 

 

Can you reuse/reconfigure a  engine with broken front block?

Not a chance.

 

But you can with a battery system.

 

It is a paradigm change 

[onetrack]

Here's an interesting story of a German owner of a 10 yr old Tesla that has done 1,200,000 miles (1,932,000kms).

The owner must be a die-hard obsessive driver, because that's 3215kms a week - every week, non-stop for 10 years.

 

As an early model Tesla, it obviously had a few bugs. He's gone through 13 electric motors (mostly rear ones) and 3 batteries. The whole story is pretty light on detail.

12 of the motors were replaced under warranty by Tesla. They're obviously slow learners, and took a long time to sort out the motor problems.

 

Someone did some figures and calculated the fuel cost of running an IC engined vehicle of the same size for that same distance, and the cost came out about the same as the Tesla repair costs - but the charging costs for the Tesla were an unknown figure, as the owner hadn't provided them.

 

If he charged a lot at home, his recharge costs would have been low - but as he ranged so widely, I would expect that his recharge costs were considerable.

 

One big factor in the equation is that EV's have come a long way in the last 10 years.

 

https://jalopnik.com/1-2-million-mile-tesla-model-s-has-gone-through-13-moto-1851081004?utm_source=YPL

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Here's an interesting story of a German owner of a 10 yr old Tesla that has done 1,200,000 miles (1,932,000kms).

The owner must be a die-hard obsessive driver, because that's 3215kms a week - every week, non-stop for 10 years.

 

As an early model Tesla, it obviously had a few bugs. He's gone through 13 electric motors (mostly rear ones) and 3 batteries. The whole story is pretty light on detail.

12 of the motors were replaced under warranty by Tesla. They're obviously slow learners, and took a long time to sort out the motor problems.

 

Someone did some figures and calculated the fuel cost of running an IC engined vehicle of the same size for that same distance, and the cost came out about the same as the Tesla repair costs - but the charging costs for the Tesla were an unknown figure, as the owner hadn't provided them.

 

If he charged a lot at home, his recharge costs would have been low - but as he ranged so widely, I would expect that his recharge costs were considerable.

 

One big factor in the equation is that EV's have come a long way in the last 10 years.

 

https://jalopnik.com/1-2-million-mile-tesla-model-s-has-gone-through-13-moto-1851081004?utm_source=YPL

For me, there are too many unknowns in that story.

It is an isolated anecdote.

 

Also, comparing it to an ice engine and transmission is a bit too vague. How many modern petrolengines go 2 million K without an engine or tyranny replacement? Did they consider ALL run ing/maintenance costs for each type?

 

Even if the two types of vehicle turn out to have equal 'whole of life' costs, that removes any dollar influence from a buyers choice.

[facthunter]

There's no way that Hydrocarbon fuel won't geta lot more expensive.. The hybrid is the  type that doesn't justify it's concept.  Nev

Edited December 15, 2023 by facthunter

[onetrack]

I would not be in the least bit surprised to see oil producers drop the price of their product to help bugger up the advance of EV's. After all, oil is the most manipulated commodity product ever produced.

[nomadpete]

1 minute ago, onetrack said:

After all, oil is the most manipulated commodity product ever produced.

Well maybe equal to the Debeers diamond business model

[facthunter]

They wouldn't get a uniform approach. Most coordinated moves have been to UP the prices.  Nev

[kgwilson]

A few comments as I've been away for a bit.

 

Weight is a non issue. My EV weight 1670kgs with a 64kWH battery. Most now weigh less than 2 tonnes other than the very large vehicles with correspondingly large batteries. All of the large ICE 4WD Utes and SUVs weigh over 2 tonnes & up to & beyond 3 tonnes.

 

My EV is built on a MSP (modular standard platform)  and its battery is easily swappable if it has a problem. The thing is it is likely to outlast the rest of the car. The battery management software looks after the batteries health & CATL say around 1 million km before reaching degradation to 80% of new.

 

There are battery repair companies popping up everywhere (except in Australia) as we are so behind in EV use with supporting infrastructure. They can fix crash damaged batteries with replacing cells and connections etc.

 

A totally smashed NMC or LFP lithium battery can easily be fully recycled as black mass. That is it is ground up and then all the minerals like lithium, cobalt, nickel, manganese etc completely recoverable. Not only that the value of a stuffed EV battery is several thousand dollars.

 

EV batteries are not a fire risk compared to ICE vehicles but hybrids are 3000% more likely to have a fire. I posted the published stats a month or so ago with per 100,000 sales EV fires were about 25, ICE fires about 1500 & Hybrid fires about 3500.

 

The problem really is that there is so much anti EV crap on social media and also in the mainstream media, all supported and often aided and abetted by the Oil conglomerates.

 

Most of the big stories about EV fires destroying a ship, burning down car parks full of other cars etc have been totally debunked but the stories have a life of their own and a lot of Trump style believers.

 

The Fully Charged Shows offshoot "Stop Burning Stuff" debunks most of the myths and corrects many poorly researched so called scientific conclusions with verifiable facts.

 

And finally would I go back to a Petrol Car. This is a resounding NO. Range is a non issue. At 110kmh I get 400km. I can't drive that far without a comfort stop and bite & that takes an absolute minimum of 20 minutes, enough to get me another 200km of charge on a rapid charger & keep going. 95% of my driving is around town or to another place for lunch in the weekend, and I charge at off peak overnight. Parking the car in the garage & connecting the charger is a 1 minute exercise I do 1-3 times a week. Disconnect the next morning & hanging the charger up similarly less than a minute. A lot quicker than going in to a stinky petrol station & having to pay. I only pay once a quarter when I get the power bill. I don't have a big enough solar system as it is 12 years old now but many EV owners charge from their solar so their fuel cost is virtually zero. Whats not to like about that.