Electric car thread

[Litespeed]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

It's been a vast Profit maker but not without it's consequences. IF it's good stuff it's too good to JUST Burn. Nature had a good way of sequestering Coal Gas and Petroleum. It took billions of years. We've released a lot of it in the LAST 250 years.  Nev

And that is exactly the problem.

 

We can't wait for all the oldies to die and leave the mess for our kids. That's a recipe for our grandkids to inherit a life far nastier than anything in the last century. 

 

We are literally driving out planet off the cliff as we suck exhaust from a tube.

[facthunter]

Has the problem got much to do with oldies?  It's got a lot to do with ignorance and greed  or things like we're in the Last Days anyhow and only Dog can fix it.. It IS one hell of a problem  but not doing anything is going to make it harder or Impossible to fix.. On the other side of it we've faced a lot of challenges and achieved a lot of things and there's still a lot of options to get green power. We are energy "Junkies" here and many places we are rushing in all directions to nowhere in particular.. Nev

[onetrack]

I'll be 86 in 2035 and I'll wager I'll more than likely still own a diesel ute for country driving and towing.

I'll probably be in the smallest motoring group though, and possibly be facing emission penalties for driving in the urban areas.

[facthunter]

We don't have a crystal Ball, fortunately. The way we are going we will be chucking atomic things at each other in a fit of supreme madness by then. Next time you drain your engine oil have a good look at it and smell it and wonder where a good place to tip it is. I used to dismantle diesel engines where you had to scoop out the sludge to get at the Main Bearing Cap Bolts to undo them and it was impossible to get the black crap out of your skin pores.  Nev

[onetrack]

Nev, the used oil merchants chase after my used oil, they'll actually pay for it with todays oil prices.

Supercheap were offering loyalty credits last month if you dropped used oil in to them.

 

I read once where mechanics live 5 years less on average than the rest of the population, because of all the carcinogenic compounds they paddled in, in used engine oil.

 

I did that for a while, but as I have an aversion to extremely dirty hands, I started wearing gloves and avoided dipping my hands into too much used oil.

Hopefully I've avoided too much DNA damage, but the amount of asbestos we played with in the days of asbestos clutches and brakes is a worry.

[spacesailor]

And  before ' Asbestos ' it was 'Lead ' in any form. Lead soldiers,  fishing weights, Lead water pipes . Even Lead in petrol. 

So now it's liquid fuel.  ' Hydrocarbon ' . After which someone Will find another cause to pursue. 

Radiation from the ' power grid ' .

spacesailir

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Lots of people get pleasure from ' displaying ' their refurbished Old ' Hoe's ' to the public. 

No.

Old Hoes are not all that popular

[Litespeed]

6 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

No.

Old Hoes are not all that popular

True,

 

And they get very upset when you ask for change after paying $5.

[Litespeed]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

Has the problem got much to do with oldies?  It's got a lot to do with ignorance and greed  or things like we're in the Last Days anyhow and only Dog can fix it.. It IS one hell of a problem  but not doing anything is going to make it harder or Impossible to fix.. On the other side of it we've faced a lot of challenges and achieved a lot of things and there's still a lot of options to get green power. We are energy "Junkies" here and many places we are rushing in all directions to nowhere in particular.. Nev

 

When I say oldies it was in response to Spacey' s earlier comment ie. Let the next generation worry about it. But old can mean anyone who is anti change.

[Litespeed]

The used oil issue is huge for health of mechanics.

 

From not too bad to a toxic cancerous soup is a quick process.

 

The worst are gearbox and diff oil.

 

A friend is in hospital full of cancer, he used to work for a oil company and they recommended full blood work every six months. A indicator they know its cancerous but Will still refuse to accept liability.

 

Sadly a wonderful blokes days are numbered.

[old man emu]

Getting back to battery power packs. From what I've seen of the inside of one of these EV battery packs is that they are just a whole lot of single batteries, each about the size of your long finger, connected together. It makes me wonder why they can't make each battery the same size as the 6V battery you use in a Dolphin torch. If 1.5V batteries can be made in sizes from AAA to D, why can't lithium ones?

[octave]

Here is a short explainer of the different types of batteries used in EVs and their pros and cons.

 

https://www.keyence.com/products/marker/laser-marker/resources/laser-marking-resources/comparison-of-different-types-of-electric-vehicle-battery-cells.jsp

[kgwilson]

BYD have produced their Blade LFP battery which is similar to what are called pouch batteries as in mobile phones. These are single cell batteries and are more expensive to produce with at least 5 layers plus the case.

 

Cylinder cells are heaps easier to manufacture as all layers are spun on. If one cell fails it is easier and cheaper to replace than a whole pouch or blade.

 

That said the manufacturing quality of EV batteries is so high now that cell failure is very rare. This is why EV batteries are given 5 to 10 year warranties. Many of the newer EVs like mine have an easily replaceable battery. It is disconnected, unbolted and drops down & another one put in.

[spacesailor]

 MY diesel Delica has two large wet batteries. 

I now need a ' hoist ' to lift them out .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Holler for a Marshal. IF it had ONE BIG battery you'd have a bigger problem. The dealers would do it for nothing and maybe give you something for the old one.  Nev

[spacesailor]

Tried that ! .

Now have two none standard batteries sitting,  ( will be used for solar battery ) .

He came , he ,took out  the two old batteries,  then found the new ones didn't quite fit , as he had argued over ,

He left & never tried to fix that problem. 

But I had paid upfront .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Cylinder cells are heaps easier to manufacture as all layers are spun on.

The same could be done for batteries of greater physical size. 

 

Speaking of the method of manufacture, I believe that one cause of lithium battery fires is not the chemicals themselves but the failure of the membrane that separates them.  If that membrane fails, a short circuit occurs, and that is what produces the heat to begin the fire.

 

[kgwilson]

One of the reasons EV batteries are made up of multiple cells is compactness and weight distribution. The battery in my EV is 115mm high and stretches from what would have been the firewall in an ICE car to just in front of the rear axle assembly and it is the full width of the car. This allows for even weight distribution with it being 50/50 in my car with the rear wheels driven. A lot of EVs have used an ICE platform modified as an EV. Many of these are front wheel drive & still have a transmission tunnel as it is part of the monocoque construction, whereas an EV specific platform has a flat floor. This provides a lot more interior space.

 

You could make it more compact but then it gets very large and that would take up a lot of useable space and have a lot of weight in one small area.

[old man emu]

What are the weights of typical EV batteries? There would have to be a range of weights to suit the other dimensions of the vehicle. You don't put a V8 in a Mini.

 

But then .....

[spacesailor]

3.5 litre V8 powered " mini " made for racetrack work .

Same motor from P76 .very fast .

Big block Cheviot motored V W ,  " the Rat " .

But , of course never allowed this side of the " pond " .

Commadore with a Big " Sainty " V8 motor , very fast at EasternCreek 

spacesailor

 

[Litespeed]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

What are the weights of typical EV batteries? There would have to be a range of weights to suit the other dimensions of the vehicle. You don't put a V8 in a Mini.

 

But then .....

There are companies is UK that do direct replacement kits to convert old Mini models to ev.

Includes everything needed.

[Litespeed]

This is a Melbourne company conversion.

 

Weight is total of only 600kg, so slightly less than ice.

Performance is another level.

 

A very professional conversation and less than two days.

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, Litespeed said:

There are companies is UK that do direct replacement kits to convert old Mini models to ev.

Yeah, but ...

My question is a simple request for the weight data of battery packs in the various kWh categories.

[Litespeed]

Sorry , don't know.

 

It depends on the chemistry type, form factor and casing as well as size of pack.

 

The mini pack was 18kwh and with motor controller etc ended up 20 kg lighter than a normal old mini.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Litespeed

[octave]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

Yeah, but ...

My question is a simple request for the weight data of battery packs in the various kWh categories.

I could answer that but I would have to google it!