Three cheers for Democracy in Australia

[old man emu]

After all the discussions about the leadership of our political parties, and hence our governments, we have had here over the past ten years, I think it is well worth us all gathering together for three cheers for the Australian style of democracy.

 

We have had governments overthrown by fair means and foul. We have both major parties replace their leaders through internal action. What other country has made these changes with less bloodshed than that of a paper cut?

 

What other country is so free to ridicule the foibles of its leaders, without so much as a raised eyebrow?

 

What other country has sought to resolve its political independence with nothing more than wordy debate?

 

Australia is truly the home of freedom of Democracy.

 

Three cheers for Austrlian Democracy -

 

Hip, Hip - Hoorah

 

Hip, Hip - Hoorah

 

Hip, Hip - Hoorah

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Have a look at Malcolm's team of champions, nearly all are party hacks. Rewarding treachery only gets more treachery.

 

 

[Teckair]

edited

 

 

[old man emu]

Pity there can't be anything posted here without someone completely misunderstanding the sentiment contained in a comment.

 

I was applauding the fact that Australia can make fundamental changes to its leaders without resorting to bloodshed. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Can't we ALL rejoice in that ability, now matter which side of the Dispatch Boxes you sit on?

 

OME

 

 

[Yenn]

Our pollies don't know the meaning of democracy, in fact they don't know what they are doing or suposed to be doing.

 

They are pushing the Adani mine in Qld. Both Qld and Federal Govt want this mine although it is fairly clear that the majority o the population is against it.

 

It is so on the nose that the banks and insurance companies will not touch it.

 

Qld govt was thinking of giving Adani a holiday from paying royalties, but enough noise was made to stop that stupidity.

 

The Feds are thinking of using the Future Fund to bankroll Adani.

 

It has been clear to any thinking person that Adani is wanting this project to go ahead with subsidised funding, so that they can dig up our coal, send it overseeas and declare that they are not making a profit, so don't have to pay tax. Hide all the money in tax havens and let the government wonder how they could have been so stupid, when the 10000 promised jobs never appear.

 

the Qld premier can only mouth "Jobs, jobs, jobs" when anyone questions her and I don't think Turnbull and his cohorts really know what to think.

 

Last nights 4 Corners program may wake some of them up. I only hope so.

 

This country is really going down the gurgler. I really worry for my grand kids and great grandkids. Too late to worry about myself.

 

 

[facthunter]

We are definitely better than Spain. Keep vigilant though, and take nothing for granted or you might lose it. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

Appears Ian's request has been ignored.Politics and Off Topic posts

This is the what's up Australia site where politics is mandatory!!!

 

 

[kgwilson]

It's a bit naive to sing the praises of democracy in Australia when we sit at number 13 on the Corruptions Perception index, 12 places behind our nearest neighbour to the east & behind most of Western Europe. A few years ago we sat at No 8 so this great democracy is going backwards. While others have improved like the UK our backwards slide is keeping company with the likes of Spain, Turkey, Brazil and Libya. We are ahead of the US at No 18 but I don't see that as anything the cheer wildly about either.

 

 

[facthunter]

We have no guarantee of our rights. They are not defined anywhere. Look how fast we have lost what we assumed are many of our rights in the last few years. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Well we are not free people, we are subjects. This was reinforced by the monarchy thing years ago.

 

 

[Yenn]

Reinforced again only this morning by Turnbull. He was espousing the use of technology to keep tabs on all of us to control terrorism. He said that anywhere that government had information about would be used, citing photographic identification such as records of drivers licence photos.

 

Government has also been saying how many terrorist attacks have been prevented by government and police action. I find it funny that all these terrorist attacks are being uncovered and stopped, but I am yet to hear of any succesful prosecutions of the suspected terrorists.

 

Time to go back to being a mushroom as the government wants us all to be.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Getting back to OME's point, we can instigate change and express our views without bloodshed pretty well, and that is something to celebrate. That is a worthy attribute of our society, but we are not alone. Most of Europe is like that, including central and now a large swathe of the East. In 1989, for example, the velvet revolution saw the ousting of communism in then Czechoslovakia, now the Czech Republic and Slovakia. The UK is a bastion of such a civilisation and even the US espouse much of what OME is congratulating.

 

I don't accept that as Australia is a constitutional monarchy, we are not a free society - the term subjects in this sense has morphed and the monarchy as an authority have, well none, in reality, especially with a written constitution.

 

In terms of being a free society, it is a relative meaning. We can't be free if we have to obey laws (or there are unwanted consequences to us if we disobey laws). But even if we allowed anarchy to transpire, we would be bound to different laws as society would fragment and very survival would depend on more "natural" laws of self-preservation and defence against those stronger than oneself as others attempt to appropriate for themselves. So freedom has to be judged in terms of how the balance of the extent we can exercise personal rights and freedoms against our obligations to society represented by the state who conveniently perform enforcement of both our rights and obligations. Excessive state control = low freedom, but excessive liberties where people can exercise their freedoms to the detriment of others also = low freedom for all but the most powerful in society (point taken, powerful now have greater freedoms than less powerful - but it's a balance).

 

Australia's democracy is not perfect - we may have a perceived corruption problem, but we can change it without bloodshed or institutional threat to ourselves if we can be bothered to do more than rant on this wonderful virtual soap box . When people say Australia (or similar societies, such as the UK) are sliding into oblivion, then they are saying they are allowing or acquiescing to it as it is in all of our gifts to get actively involved to preserve and improve democracy.

 

 

[Marty_d]

What he said.

 

 

[Bruce]

There is a quote from Benjamin Franklin which is more true now than when he said it...

 

" Those who would trade essential liberties for a bit of temporary safety will finish up with neither liberty or safety."

 

well that's my recollection of the quote, and I reckon it applies perfectly to the whole "aviation safety" scene as well as the "terrorism" scene here and now.

 

 

[spacesailor]

The Republic, will not give anymore freedom's than what we have at the moment.

 

I personally prefer a CD, (constitutional democracy).

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

Having another previous World Empire's flag in the corner of yours today is SO weird. While many may say we fought under THAT flag so.... You fought for your country at a time when the PM saying "England is at war so consequently WE are at war" may have been questioned by a few brave souls , but today is so outrageous in the current world context as to be laughable. When the right to appeal to the Privy Council of the UK was taken away we only had part of the deal remaining. The GG being technically the monarch's representative here in more or less a ceremonial role in practice but in reality and LAW may still have large residual powers if it comes to the crunch. We should take a mature and researched approach to this. If we want to stay a member of the "Commonwealth" of the old British Empire that's a separate issue and is not compromised by a Republic status. I wouldn't be freaked out by the title "republic" which in effect means NOT BEING RULED by a unelected (King/ Queen, God person Dictator Mullah ) etc The choice is pretty clear if you want a say in how the Country you live in is run. Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Doesn't North Korea's official title include democratic and republic? Of course, they are just words with no meaning in the title...

 

We no longer have a right of appeal to the Privy Council as prior to it being taken away in the 90's, Australia was still technically a dominion of the realm. However, the referendum of the 90s severed that and Australia is an independent nation state. This coincided with Canada and I think New Zealand... At Australian law, the GG is the representative of the Queen of Australia. I don't dispute it is pretty strange having your monarch live literally half the world away, but hey, we don't pay for her. For all intents and purposes, purely symbolic and prerogative powers reside with parliament. So, in practice, it's no big deal, stable, and by world standards, we are reasonably democratic. Why spend a lot of money to fix something that ain't broken other than ideologically?

 

Also, I would contend we would no less say, "Because America is at war, we are at war" today than England of yesterday.. In fact, it looks like we have done it a few times since WW2 (Korea, Vietnam, Middle East). TBH, looking at the modern day conduct of the UK and the USA, it would probably be better that we were more aligned to the UK...

 

Re the current Aussie flag - I personally am ambivalent. I like the idea our contemporary society roots are depicted along; however, I think we should amend it to symbolise all that is Australia.

 

 

[Bruce]

Certain animals have top status individuals who have won their way to that position.

 

There are no animals, only humans, who can win that status so soundly that they can hand it on to their offspring forever.

 

Thats what a monarchy is, and North Korea is a modern example of it happening before our eyes.

 

 

[spacesailor]

A republic does not elect it's dictator of a President.

 

The same as parliament wants us (Australians) to accept.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

So "Republic" is out because North Korea has that in it's description. They also breath oxygen (as we do) . Sorry I don't buy that argument.. Australia at the moment is fast losing status on human rights on the world stage.. Whatever we call ourselves that should be of concern We lock ourselves in with USA if we are forced to take sides. Even the Majority of Americans don't like what Trump is doing so why should WE (who don't get a vote in his election,) encourage him more that the US citizens do? Just to get a refugee deal done? There's a couple of words Trump should heed. Pine Gap. Two can play at his game. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

Certain animals have top status individuals who have won their way to that position.There are no animals, only humans, who can win that status so soundly that they can hand it on to their offspring forever.

 

Thats what a monarchy is, and North Korea is a modern example of it happening before our eyes.

Or as in any monarchy, such as the Norman monarchy of William the Bastard, King William 1 of England.

 

 

[coljones]

A republic does not elect it's dictator of a President.The same as parliament wants us (Australians) to accept.

 

spacesailor

Please re-read and recompose, thanks!

 

 

[spacesailor]

The voter's of a republic as offered to Australians will not get to vote on the election of the Australian presidency.

 

The government in power will elect its own candidate for the presidency.

 

Better

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

So not much different from the current system then. The party elects the leader. Occasionally they stuff it up, resulting in a Tony Abbott or a Bill Shorten.

 

However there's no guarantee the public can do any better. Two little words... "Donald Trump".

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

What's important is the powers conferred on the head of state (president).. If elected by the parliament, then surely those powers can only be symbolic and ceremonial; even withholding royal/presidential assent, or the assertion of a veto should not be allowed. If elected, then more supervisory and check/balance powers of the legislature would be appropriate.