SHOCK SAFETY RATING FOR NEW CARS

[red750]

The MG 5 sedan from China and Mahindra Scorpio 4WD from India have been slapped with zero-star safety ratings by the Australasian New-Car Assessment Program (ANCAP).

 

According to drive.com they are the second and third vehicles ever to be awarded the lowest rating in the 30-year history of the safety organisation after the Mitsubishi Express van – a rebadged Renault Trafic – in 2021.

 

The vehicles fell short in both crash-avoidance technology – given their lack of nearly all modern, advanced safety features fitted to other cars to earn five stars – and how well their body structures protected adults from injury in a crash.

 

Doesn’t seem to worry the manufacturers. Both said there are no plans to remove either car from sale.

[old man emu]

12 minutes ago, red750 said:

Doesn’t seem to worry the manufacturers. Both said there are no plans to remove either car from sale.

Quite simply, because both vehicles fully comply with the Australian Design Rules. “MG has worked closely with the Australian Government to ensure that the MG 5 has met the relevant Australian Design Rules (ADRs) for vehicle design when they are first supplied to the Australian market,” said a MG Motor Australia spokesperson."“The MG 5 was certified and approved for sale in Australia and has met the (ADR) rules to be sold." 

 

The mob who conduct the ANCAP test have absolutely no regulatory power at all. ANCAP’s role is to determine the physical crash performance of new models to allow consumers to make informed purchasing choices. ANCAP is to cars what Choice is to purchasers of domestic white goods. Not saying that the information that either produces is not useful to the consumer, but it has nothing to do with regulation.

 

In the entry-level MG 5 Vibe there are no seat belt pre-tensioners and load limiters fitted to the front or rear seats. In the flagship MG 5 Essence they’re only fitted to the front seats and not the rear. ANCAP noted the autonomous emergency braking (AEB) performance was “limited or not available”, with other “contemporary aids to monitor driver alertness and the presence of children inadvertently left in the vehicle not offered”.

 

There’s currently no centre airbag offered across the entire MG 5 line-up, nor are there blind-spot monitoring and lane-keep assist systems. The lack of collision avoidance (ADAS) features consumers have come to expect have been omitted from the MG 5 – and play a part in limiting the MG 5’s safety rating.

 

Basically, all ANCAP does is similar to what an honest, competent motoring journalist would do - tell you that compared to other new vehicles on the market, the Vibe and Mahindra don't have the bells and whistles that you will pay for in other vehicles. 

 

Also the results are based on the latest 2023-2025 testing protocols which tested advanced ADAS systems including autonomous emergency braking, speed assist systems, lane assist systems and pedestrian protection safety systems. The tests where the vehicles got a big fat zero were only introduced this year. Did the manufacturers know what the new tests entailed?

 

 

[Litespeed]

Not sure about the MG5 but should be fixable by adding the extras.

 

The Mahindra could do what Toyota does and declare it's big old cruiser ute a truck and exempt it from the strict rules. A cynical move but Toyota don't seem to care 

[onetrack]

Most of the new "safety" features are a PIA. Beeping and squeaking and chirping, and half the time you don't even know why. Where they're switchable, I know a lot of people who switch them off.

Give me a basic vehicle with good basic passive safety features and you can shove your "driver assist" devices.

 

Most of the time they're simply for people who lack even basic vehicle control skills, and who roll over on straight stretches of roads because they fiddled with a knob on the dash. These "driver assist" systems only make for lazier and lazier drivers.

Soon we'll have people saying, "I can't drive that, it doesn't have all the top-of-the-range driver assist systems on it!"

 

I've already had an episode where I went to pick up a trailer from a country council yard after buying it at auction. The young geeky dork from the office followed me down to the yard from the office. When I got to the trailer, another council worker had parked a 4 tonne Hino truck in front of it, so I couldn't get the trailer out until the truck was moved. There was no-one in the yard except geeky dork and me.

 

I said to him, "I'll just get you to move the truck up a bit, so I can back in and hook up to the trailer. He looked a bit nonplussed, and came out with, "I don't have the skills or training to start and move a truck like that". Jesus wept.

I jumped into the Hino, the keys were in it, and I started it up and moved it forward. It's not like it was a Kenworth roadtrain with multiple gear shift levers and switches, the little Hinos are designed to be car-like.

I often wonder how some of these young people will get through life without major support systems mollycoddling them all the way.

[old man emu]

8 hours ago, Litespeed said:

Not sure about the MG5 but should be fixable by adding the extras.

Those things already exist for the MG5.

 

"Where and when possible, we will add improvements to our products for our models during their life cycle. In 2024, the MG 5 will receive a safety pack upgrade which will increase the overall safety of this model inline with ANCAP’s rating system. These planned enhancements for the MG 5 will ensure further passenger safety with a much more advanced ADAS systems including autonomous emergency braking, speed assist systems, lane assist systems and pedestrian protection safety systems as seen in some of our other models,” said a MG Motor Australia spokesperson.

 

In China, the MG 5 can be had with adaptive cruise control, lane-keep assist, intelligent speed assist, and traffic jam assist. In Thailand, it can also be had with blind-spot monitoring and rear cross-traffic alert. These features can also be found in the Chinese-market MG 5 Scorpio, a sportier counterpart to the regular MG 5.

 

7 hours ago, onetrack said:

Most of the new "safety" features are a PIA. Beeping and squeaking and chirping, and half the time you don't even know why. Give me a basic vehicle with good basic passive safety features and you can shove your "driver assist" devices.

Of the new "safety feature", about the only one that I think is worthwhile is the blind spot monitor. That, at least, increases your situational awareness, especially in multi-lane traffic situations where quite often there is a vehicle in your blind spot. Reversing cameras are good, too. But lane positioning can be dangerous as the car tries to override the inputs you might be making to avoid something like a pothole or section of collapsed road surface. I bet people think I'm intoxicated when they follow me on my local highways. Since I know the road surfaces so well, I am often weaving across the lane, and even onto the other side of centre to avoid damaging my suspension or wheel rims. If my car was fitted with lane positioning, I'd be battling the steering all the time.

 

While the technology is available on the market, many drivers are overwhelmed with the options in that they don't know how to choose which would serve them best. Furthermore, even with the installation and implementation of such systems, there is the issue of training drivers to use them to the fullest advantage in order to maximize the risk-limiting factors of the system features. Considering the poor training standards for teaching student drivers to simply operate a vehicle in traffic, how could they be trained to use ADAS. Having lived near a driver testing facility and watched student drivers being taught on the test routes, I have the opinion that a lot of driving instructors have no idea of how to actually operate a motor vehicle.

 

Future-generation ADAS will implement wireless network connectivity to enable Vehicle to Vehicle (V2V) and Vehicle to Infrastructure (V2I or V2X). To put it simply, cars will be able to communicate with each other and through a great mainframe to provide a more safe, automated driving experience. No need for "Flash for Cash" or Highway Patrol to be out on the streets. Big Brother will be watching your every move.

 

ADAS testing typically involves creating complex scenarios with multiple vehicles (or soft targets) to see whether the vehicle's own systems detect an imminent crash. "Imminent" means the state or condition of being likely to occur at any moment. The event may, or may not occur. Whether is does or does not is a wager. In this case, the ones who profit financially from complying with complex ADAS standards are the bookies (manufacturers) who add their bit of profit to the cost of meeting the standards.

 

I know that you hate this bloke, mainly for his method of presentation, which can be grating, but for once listen to what he is saying, and don't ignore the fact that he, at least, indicates where he is getting his information. Afterall, he is a career motoring journalist. He' just gone feral and won't kowtow to the political correctness of the automotive industry.

 

[spacesailor]

I was caught out.  Like that .

A " single lever  " gear-throttle " controller on a boat .

I have never used one at all ! .

Should I ask Mr Google ? . LoL

spacesailor

PS : I Googled it ! . Simples .

Edited December 19, 2023 by spacesailor
A little more !

[Marty_d]

I literally have to switch off "traction control" every time I go up our driveway, or the car just loses revs and sits there.  I don't mind wheelspin.  I can handle wheelspin, and most of the time they don't even spin when it's off - so I'm at a loss to know what the hell it's good for.

Having said that, most of the other stuff that they've marked down those cars for not having, I don't either in my 2015 Santa Fe.  Funnily enough I've never felt zero stars unsafe in it.

[spacesailor]

I, and lots more 4X4 driver's " hate " that  antiskid breaking .

On sand it pushes you from. One side to the other & back again , then Your fuel usage goes from 

15 , to 35 lp100 then (  even more as you drive with the accelerator flat to the floor at 15 kph ).

spacesailor

 

[spenaroo]

ah ANCAP.

note that they don't downgrade their existing ratings.
so plenty of cars with 5 star ratings that are 3-4 on the current system.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, spenaroo said:

plenty of cars with 5 star ratings that are 3-4 on the current system.

It's called obsolescence planning.

 

ANCAP is funded by the Federal Government to the tune of $16M over the next five years. Imagine if that level of funding was put into Life Skills education in our schools. And the Life Skill I am thinking of is motor vehicle operation. Not learning how to pass the driver's test. Learning how to operate the motor vehicle in a modern road transport system. 

 

[facthunter]

It's FAR better than it used to be. Inattention is a prime cause. It's certainly worsened in the last few years.. People speed and run red lights  . Plenty of nose to Tails  Nev

[spenaroo]

6 hours ago, old man emu said:

It's called obsolescence planning.

 

ANCAP is funded by the Federal Government to the tune of $16M over the next five years. Imagine if that level of funding was put into Life Skills education in our schools. And the Life Skill I am thinking of is motor vehicle operation. Not learning how to pass the driver's test. Learning how to operate the motor vehicle in a modern road transport system. 

 

16M federally....
not a whole lot. what is that 3.2M each year, so $450k each state/territory.
imagine most of that would be taken in an operational budget.

 

(and it would have to be state/territory programs as we don't have national road rules)

or to put it another way, its 3.2M divided by 230k students. (figures from https://www.acara.edu.au/reporting/national-report-on-schooling-in-australia/year-12-subject-enrolments)

so $13.90 a student.... might cover the cost of a small booklet per student
 

Edited December 20, 2023 by spenaroo

[old man emu]

No, it's not a lot per student, but what if there was an instructional program following a set syllabus which provided a structured set of sequential lessons that took the student driver from the very first sit in the driver's seat to attending their licence examination?

 

I reckon I could produce something like that and deliver it online for a purchase price of $10.00/

[nomadpete]

No OME.

Finish the shower first. Please.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

No OME.

Finish the shower first. Please.

An exhortation from one of the Great Unwashed!

[Marty_d]

That's because he's waiting for you to finish the shower...

[Litespeed]

It's about time they mandated proper driver training not the expensive private tutoring of 50plus hrs. No quality control at all and no defensive driving skills.

 

We accepted 30 years ago the need to train motorcycle riders for both l and P levels. It's not perfect but far better than the car system.

 

Given many have to spend thousands to get their hrs up, a proper training program including track time, should be doable. $100 million a year in gov funding would save multiples in just hospital/  NDIS costs. A simple and smart investment 

 

And you should need to demonstrate proficiency to go from P plate to full licence. Currently just serve out time, no tests at all. You might have done no driving since getting your P and that's fine by the system.

 

No where good enough.

[nomadpete]

9 hours ago, Litespeed said:

It's about time they mandated proper driver training not the expensive private tutoring of 50plus hrs. No quality control at all and no defensive driving skills.

 

We accepted 30 years ago the need to train motorcycle riders for both l and P levels. It's not perfect but far better than the car system.

 

Given many have to spend thousands to get their hrs up, a proper training program including track time, should be doable. $100 million a year in gov funding would save multiples in just hospital/  NDIS costs. A simple and smart investment 

 

And you should need to demonstrate proficiency to go from P plate to full licence. Currently just serve out time, no tests at all. You might have done no driving since getting your P and that's fine by the system.

 

No where good enough.

I did a fair bit of driving during my career. Twice  I had an employer send a bunch of us to Defensive Driver training. These employers had worked out that it was a good investment. It is.

That single day of intensive proper training sharpened our skills and taught us stuff that you will never learn from the present licence requirements.

 

It should be compulsory training prior to every motorist 'going solo'.

[old man emu]

You could go get your aerobatic rating that would be useful for recovery from unusual attitudes, or keeping yourself out of entering them, but for the vast majority of your flying it is the basics you rely on. Those basics are the foundations of "defensive flying".

 

What I am saying is that student drivers should be given the basic foundations for operating a vehicle. My driving habits were corrected when I underwent basic Police driver training which is based on the system of the British Metropolitan Police Driver Training School, Hendon. This basic course trains drivers to operate a vehicle under normal conditions, up to "Urgent Duty" which is lights and sirens driving. Later I underwent an advanced course to be certified for high speed driving (Highway Patrol). You can purchase the Hendon Driver training Manual and learn from it an understanding of "sight distance", which is an essential ingredient in determining how to drive into the length of road equal to the stopping distance from the speed at which you are travelling. 

[facthunter]

It's not helpful to equate aerobatics with Unusual attitude recovery. You can be "put" in an unusual attitude by external unexpected FACTORS. In aeros you PLAN where the plane ends up and anticipate it, and know what it's going to do.   Nev

[old man emu]

Jeezus! While it might be true that an aerobatic routine or training would be a planned exercise, that does not detract from the fact that the methods for returning an aircraft to "straight and level" from an unusual attitude  learned during aerobatic training can be used to recover from an external unexpected FACTOR . Afterall, what are aerobatics ?

 

According to CASA aerobatic manoeuvres for an aircraft, means manoeuvres of the aircraft that involve:

a. bank angles that are greater than 60 degrees

b. pitch angles that are greater than 45 degrees or are otherwise abnormal to the aircraft type; or

c. abrupt changes of speed, direction, angle of bank or pitch.

[facthunter]

I couldn't disagree with you more.. The first thing with UA recovery is to determine HOW you are orientated. In aeros you KNOW always or you are dead OR very lucky not to be THAT time.. Nev

[old man emu]

It's just a bloody example of how a person can learn a skill that can be used sometimes, in particular situations, but is not necessary to be employed every single moment. 

 

I'm sorry if I tend to use generalisations to direct a line of thought. If I need to be particular about some point, then I will be so. 

 

How come you haven't gone to town on "sight distance", which is an essential ingredient in determining how to drive into the length of road equal to the stopping distance from the speed at which you are travelling? 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I would like to see much better testing of license applicants... This could be done with driving simulators, which is the only safe way that a kid suddenly appears in front of you, and the only way skidding on a wet road can be simulated safely. All candidates could get a score out of 100 say, and this would be objective.

The only downside I can think of would be that a different car to your normal one would be used in the simulator.

Kids would do well in the scores but would still drive stupidly on the real road, but oldies who reacted too slowly to be safe would be caught out.

[facthunter]

OME, I do when I  drive with my wife but the subject we were discussing was to do with SAFETY and Planes so it's a good thing to  clarify any misconceptions about it as they arise.  I've ALWAYS PUSHED U/ A recoveries. When you need it you won't  get much warning and no one can guarantee they can go through a flying life  where all the conditions are perfect.. Try hitting a dust devil without any dust to warn you or a sea breeze driven wind change that hits you just as you get airborne.  Nev

Edited December 21, 2023 by facthunter
clarity