SHOCK SAFETY RATING FOR NEW CARS

[facthunter]

ICY roads are the same. No grip at all. I've had some where you slide downslope on leather soled shoes till you hit something that stops you.  Aquaplaning is a higher speed phenomenon. No grip there either.  Nev

[red750]

Here's a collection - mainly US.

 

Skidpan experience

[facthunter]

Not much intelligence displayed there.   Nev

[old man emu]

Watched that Australian skidpan one. Someone should give this bloke a few lessons in how to operate a steering wheel. Just look at the arms crossing over.

[facthunter]

Covered oversteering and understeering.  Front and rear wheel drive should have the different reactions to power changes  covered. Shuffling the wheel is for bus drivers and where the steering physical effort is large or a bumpy surface involved.   Nev

[old man emu]

55 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Shuffling the wheel is for bus drivers

I dare you to call a graduate of the NSW Police Driver Training School a "bus driver". But then again, years of correcting the bad habits of average drivers, based on time-proven techniques to produce highly competent drivers counts for nothing if a person is self-taught utilising unexpected incidents.

[facthunter]

I didn't intend to call you anything. You self identified.. How many graduates of the NSW Police Driver Training School have become Bathurst drivers or done serious competitive driving based on such a course?   Nev

[old man emu]

Nev,

 

 

17 hours ago, facthunter said:

I didn't intend to call you anything.

Once again you've misinterpreted me. I suppose I should have more finely defined the "graduate" to indicate a contemporary serving constable, not a certain retired constable.

 

Also, I refer you to this painting: 

It depicts the basis of the saying,  ne supra crepidam sutor iudicaret ("Let the cobbler not judge beyond the crepida"), which became "Cobler keepe your last" in the 1616 revised edition of John Withals's Shorte Dictionarie for Yonge Beginners. 

 

The words are ascribed to the Greek painter, Apelles of Kos. Supposedly, Apelles would put new paintings on public display and hide behind them to hear and act on their reception. On one occasion, a shoemaker (sutor) noted that one of the crepida (sandal) in a painting had the wrong number of straps and was so delighted when he found the error corrected the next day that he started in on criticizing the legs. Indignant, Apelles came from his hiding place and admonished him to keep his opinionating to the shoes.

 

In other words, one should not criticize the expertise or qualifications of another unless one has the same expertise or qualifications.

[facthunter]

Do I have to do the Police driving course?  OME, I'm not just responding to you. The subject is there  for ALL to discuss Deal in the facts please and stop pulling rank in these discussions. You have NO idea what my skills and experience in these matters  amounts to. You just  assume it's inferior to yours as you've made clear in your statements above.   Nev

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Do I have to do the Police driving course?

I have been referring to the tried and tested techniques included in the training manual of Metropolitan Police Driver Training School, Hendon. What I was attempting to say right at the beginning was that the current way student drivers are "instructed" is to simply successfully complete a practical test which involves driving around one of several known testing courses on public roads in urban settings. That manner of instruction fails to instill in the student all the ancillary things that are involved in completing a journey from A to B without being involved in a collision.

 

I realise that it anathema to mention what is involved in ab initio flight training, but I hope that most here have been through it. That training is a step-by-step system in which the student is first taught to make sure the aircraft is serviceable for flight (pre-flight and engine start up). Thereafter the student is taught how to manoeuvre the aircraft in three dimensions, and what it can do gently in those dimension. I SAY THAT STUDENT MOTOR VEHICLE DRIVERS SHOULD FOLLOW A PARALLEL SYLLABUS.

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

You have NO idea what my skills and experience in these matters  amounts to.

In today's world, it is expected that any claim to a skill, or experience is backed up by documented evidence supporting the claim.  I'll show you mine if you show me yours***.

 

*** Bearing in mind that my documentation is still packed away in an unpacked box which is somewhere amongst a stack of other unpacked boxes.

[facthunter]

Don't bother. Comparisons are odious. What you write here should illustrate your wisdom and knowledge .  sufficiently for people to judge the worth of  your contribution..   Anyone CAN learn something from somebody unless they think they already have it all.  When you INSTRUCT is when you learn fastest of all.. Employers want people with experience for good reasons.   Nev

[nomadpete]

Is this a private fight or can anyone join in?

[facthunter]

Why not?  (But I have no authority, so take that as an opinion), But that should count as most of us have them to share.   Nev

Edited December 27, 2023 by facthunter
more content.

[old man emu]

14 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Is this a private fight or can anyone join in?

Yes, you can - if you want to shadow box. 

[nomadpete]

Thanks, but for now I'll  sit in the peanut gallery and roll the occassional Jaffa down the aisle.

[nomadpete]

Back to topic.....

 

SHOCK SAFETY RATING FOR NEW CARS

 

Maybe it would be a real shock improvement in actual vehicle safety ratings (as measured statistically under real world conditions), if higher standards of demonstrated skills are required for the operators of all grades of motor vehicles.

 

There is nothing to be gained in a pyssin competition between training methods unavailable to the average mug.

[red750]

44 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

and roll the occassional Jaffa down the aisle.

Something else becoming a thing of the past.

 

Woolies have decided to stop stocking Jaffas. Not sure about other shops.

[old man emu]

No Jaffas, No Fantails. No Winning Post chocolates. And they call that Progress!!!?????

[nomadpete]

I made one mediating comment, to bring us back to topic.

 

And now we are debating the demise of the Australian  confectionery industry.

 

I give up 🥵

[old man emu]

Since the publication of  Ralph Nader's Unsafe at Any Speed, which criticized the automotive industry for its safety record and helped lead to the passage of the USA's National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act in 1966 the passive safety features of motor vehicles have lead to dramatic reductions in road fatalities. I remember back to 1980 when the annual NSW road toll was in the vicinity of 1200. To date (28/12/2023) the toll is 350. 

 

I attribute this reduction to:

1. Introduction of Random Breath Testing with the Prescribed Concentration of Alcohol at 0.08 gms alcohol/100 ml blood.
2. Reduction of PCA to 0.05 gms alcohol/100 ml blood
3. Upgrading of rural and urban road standards to separate vehicles travelling from opposite directions.
4. Inclusion of passive safety features engineered into the vehicle, including crumple zones, passenger compartment rigidity, seatbelt pretensioners and air bags.

There are three components in road safety: Driver, Vehicle and Road. The only thing that has really impinged on "Driver" has been the effort put into the detection of intoxicated drivers and the subsequent heavy penalty for being intoxicated at the wheel. Otherwise, there has been no real effort to improve driver competency. 

 

[onetrack]

BREAKING NEWS ON THE CAR SAFETY FRONT!! .......

 

The Daihatsu manufacturing operations have been shut down by Toyota (Toyota own Daihatsu), over revelations that Daihatsu falsified safety testing and used unauthorised procedures for testing.

The problem is reported as going back over 30 years. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-27/japan-auto-maker-daihatsu-suspends-production-safety-testing/103268528

[Jerry_Atrick]

Wowsers. I had a new Daihatsu Feroza (F300) in about 1993. I was driving down Glenhuntly Road in the wet.. An elderly lady who wad stopped at a side street stop sign waiting to turn right into Glenhuntly Road looked me in the eyes and decided to proceed. Glenhuntly road has tram tracks along most of it, and it was wet. I started emergency braking but tyres connected with the tracks and that was it. I slammed into her driver side door and she was spun around 180 degrees.

he Feroza was damaged, but repairable.

 

I learned what my then fiance was like... No compassion or caring whatsoever over the lady who was clearly at fault; only cursing the new car (it was about 5 days old) was bent a bit. We didn't stay together long.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick