The 26th of January Controversy

[onetrack]

There's a bloke named Harold Scruby who has a website dedicated to getting rid of our current flag, and adopting a totally new and comprehensive, all-encompassing design that appeals to everyone.

I'd have to say - "Good luck with that!". No matter what is produced by way of a new flag, there will be a cohort that denigrates it as being totally unsatisfactory.

 

He has people sending in new flag designs every year, and shows the offerings listed on an annual basis. All I can say is, I wouldn't adopt any of them, they all look pretty pathetic.

The interesting thing about our flag is that it has been officially changed 3 times since Federation, and none of the changes were worthy, as far as I'm concerned.

What is even more amazing, the Australian flag was not officially legislated as our National Flag until the Flags Act of 1953.

 

Our flag is still too much like Noo Zullands, and I think there wasn't a lot of thought put into the original design. Interestingly, the original flag competition rules were so tight, 5 people came up with virtually identical designs, and they all shared the prizemoney.

 

https://www.ausflag.com.au/history.asp

 

Edited January 27 by onetrack

[willedoo]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

If part of the National costume is swimwear, then why not use components of the Flag in their design? 

For exactly the reason I previously mentioned - we shouldn't be rubbing our arse on a depiction of our national flag.

[willedoo]

19 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Our flag is still too much like Noo Zullands, and I think there wasn't a lot of thought put into the original design. Interestingly, the original flag competition rules were so tight, 5 people came up with virtually identical designs, and they all shared the prizemoney.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the terms of the original competition were that it had to be based on the British Blue Ensign (in flag terms, creating a defaced British Blue ensign).

[old man emu]

37 minutes ago, willedoo said:

For exactly the reason I previously mentioned - we shouldn't be rubbing our arse on a depiction of our national flag.

Using the same line of logic, it should not be depicted as a major motif on a T-shirt, nor on a pair of things. 

 

I can see what your thinking is, and while I don't oppose it, I think that it is of an earlier age. I agree that mistreatment of a real flag is wrong. Displaying one's flag politely is a good thing. When I was in the USA and representing the NSW Police to a small degree, I wished that my uniform sported the National flag as well as the Police insignia.

 

It seems that the most-flag-proud Nation has no objection to the use of its flag in these ways. 

 

 In fact it seems that wearing clothes like these is uber-patriotic, and our young people are following it.

[facthunter]

 A nation that has another nations flag (unaltered) as part of it is a bit suss don't you think? It was OK when I was a British citizen with no other option. and could appeal to the Privy Council. That was when people were called names which were familiar and drove British cars and Planes. The question is are  we British or are we not? We don't vote for anyone in Britain. THEY dumped us in WW2. When they joined the EU we got no consideration of existing deals in trade.. The Yanks saved us. Incidently this is not a hate England rant It's just that things HAVE and are constantly CHANGING.   Nev

Edited January 27 by facthunter

[willedoo]

28 minutes ago, facthunter said:

A nation that has another nations flag (unaltered) as part of it is a bit suss don't you think?

The top left corner is the first quarter or canton of a flag which by custom has the highest status of the four quarters. Ours has the Union flag in the first quarter which by convention, would represent us as being subservient to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We still are to some extent, but not as much as in the past.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

A nation that has another nations flag (unaltered) as part of it is a bit suss don't you think?

6 minutes ago, willedoo said:

The top left corner is the first quarter or canton of a flag which by custom has the highest status of the four quarters.

 There are 22 countries other than the United Kingdom which have the Union Jack as part of their national flag. In most cases, the presence of the Jack is simply an historic reference, not a symbol of subservience.

[spacesailor]

There has been a Palestine flag flying in Toongabbie , since they declared war on Israel and. Israel. 

spacesailor

[willedoo]

17 minutes ago, old man emu said:

There are 22 countries other than the United Kingdom which have the Union Jack as part of their national flag. In most cases, the presence of the Jack is simply an historic reference, not a symbol of subservience.

In contemporary times, yes, a historic reference but more an historic artifact. I say that because when most of those flags were originally commissioned, a lot of those countries were legally tied to the United Kingdom, and the Union Jack was situated in the canton because at the time it took precedence on the flags. Some of them that now aren't tied to Britain would still have the Union Jack for historical sentiment.

 

Sometimes common sense comes into it. Conventionally, we would have the Union Jack as our Royal Australian Navy jack, but it would be a bit confusing if we flew the British flag from our jackstaffs when in foreign ports. Using the Australian National Flag as our Navy jack probably goes back to the early 1900's when the British Admiralty argued that Australia and Canada shouldn't have their own naval ensign, and that the national flag flown from the jackstaff was sufficient to denote nationality of the ship. We didn't use our Australian White Ensign on warships until the Vietnam war.

 

The naval jack is by convention the canton section of the national flag flown on it's own on the jackstaff. Hence the USN jack being the star section of the US stars and stripes national flag. There's exceptions of course, as in our case and that of countries that have no symbol in the canton.

[willedoo]

42 minutes ago, old man emu said:

There are 22 countries other than the United Kingdom which have the Union Jack as part of their national flag.

I only know of four countries, the national flags of Australia, New Zealand, Tuvalu and Fiji. The rest are British overseas territories, U.S. states or Canadian provinces. The status of the Cook Islands is a bit debatable.

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, onetrack said:

He has people sending in new flag designs every year, and shows the offerings listed on an annual basis. All I can say is, I wouldn't adopt any of them, they all look pretty pathetic.

I'd agree with you there onetrack. Most of the submitted designs would make ok tea towel designs, but that's about all. They're fairly underwhelming.

[red750]

Flags with the Union Jack in the Canton.

Australia

Pitcairn Is

Cayman Is

Anguilla

British Indian Ocean Territories

Tuvalu

Bermuda

South Georgia & Sout Sandwich Is

Niue    **  Modified Union Jack (see below.)

New Zealand

Fiji

Falkland Is

St Helena, Assentian & Tristan Da Cunha

Monserrat

Turks & Caicos Is

Heard & McDonald Is

British Vergin Is.

 

Nuie flag.

[willedoo]

Heard & McDonald Islands is doubling up as the Australian flag is used there; they don't have their own flag.

 

Other current territories, states or provinces  with the Union Jack in the Canton (excluding our states) are:

British Antarctic Territory

Ontario

Manitoba

Hawaii

[willedoo]

The flag of British Columbia is a bit busy; enough to give you nightmares.

 

[willedoo]

British Indian Ocean Territory flag is a bit wild as well.

 

[willedoo]

Maybe the lines straighten out when the wind reaches 40 knots.

[Marty_d]

I agree there's a lot to be proud of in this country. 

I don't agree that this needs to be represented by a flag.

I love Australia, but I couldn't give 2 shits about the flag.  I kind of think people who go to great lengths to fly/wear/drive it are a bit overzealous. 

[spacesailor]

I think the rest of humanity is a bit more proud of their flag .

spacesailor

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I'm sort of in Marty's camp... but, given that you fellas know my position on Aussie day (and the Voice), it may come as a surprise that I like to thave the Union Jack in our flag. It represents our origins as the modern country; I think ti should be changed though to incorporate ATSI recognition as well. But, like Marty, I really don't care too much about the flag, it's the people, the culture, the government, etc., that counts.

 

@willedoo, I respect your perspective with respect to wearing the flag on someones posterior, but I somehow see this as adding value to the flag:

 

 

Or for the ladies (and fellas who like that sort of ting):

 

 

Now,to be balanced, I did search for those laides and men that were, let's say height challenged relative to their weight wearing Aussie bikins or bathers, and I only got American women, and no men.. However, I will proxy a yanK woman:

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by Jerry_Atrick

[Jerry_Atrick]

Bloody keyboard and cookign for the kids at the same time.. Hadn't realised I had posted the above - thought it was still in draft..

 

Yeah - she's not the sterotype, but good on her...

 

And all of them are wearing an emblem which signifies their country and they are earing it as they are proud of their country. In some ways, I  don't see it different to wearing the yellow flag with the boxing kangaroo on it.

 

I guess like words, other facets of humkan expression change their meaning over time to the wider society.

[Bruce Tuncks]

In Hawaii, the state flag has a union jack plus the US stripes. Apparently, it was the union Jack after Cook "took possession" of the islands and the local chief was uninterested in flags. He thought Cook was just a guest who he could have eaten if he chose.

Anyway, the union jack flew there for years until a sealing-boat stopped one day and the chief was told that he was flying" the enemies' flag". Still uninterested in flags, the new chief obligingly added the stripes. 

Personally, I reckon those Hawaiians are smart.

Edited January 27 by Bruce Tuncks