Indigenous Sovereignty Demands

[spacesailor]

Shouldn't that religion! .

That preacher's 'killing infidels ' . 

Be banned as ' enticing murder ' .

I mean they have banned " social commies party " .

They are sociable at least .

spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

I was thinking about abos and wondered what if they were paid "siddown money " once a year. Well there would be a great binge and six months later, the kids would start dying of hunger.

OK, so what about the other way? They are presently paid every fortnight, I think, and the kids sometimes don't make it till payday, but they often do.

So what about paying them every day? This would once have been an expensive idea, but it is no longer. They would stop starving the kids and have "lots " of money for grog.

I reckon the once a fortnight was a hangover from pre-computer days and it is no longer necessary or desirable, especially for people with very limited time horizons.

[Bruce Tuncks]

The only reason I can think of as to why this is not done already is the kind of "inverted racism" we see around today. For example, the lack of appropriate housing ( Simple and built with non-flammable materials as well as non-shattering materials ) is an example of the stupid kind of thinking that says " abos are citizens and will be provided with the kind of housing that others get." completely disregarding culture.

Edited November 5 by Bruce Tuncks

[old man emu]

Yamba Surf Club, in NSW, was asked by the Yaegl traditional owners Aboriginal Corporation to pay a $500 “fee for service” for each of its four events - including a nippers carnival - over the 2024-25 lifesaving season. The corporation said the payment was to conduct 'welcome to country' ceremonies at the events. The surf club is a volunteer organisation that was formed in 1908

 

After an outcry, the Yargl Corporation said a mistake had been made, and that the invoice should have been sent to the local Council. 

[onetrack]

In W.A., it's pretty well known and understood, that a Welcome to Country ceremony, a Native Heritage inspection before development, or any other required Indigenous involvement in events, requires that payment is paid in cash money, or "liquid currency" (booze) to the Elder or Mob involved. It's a "nice lil' earner", as Arfur would say.

[Marty_d]

Sorry guys, but most of the posts on this thread just seem to be a bit of abo-bashing for the sake of it.

 

So a people who, from their point of view, have been invaded, subjected to laws they don't understand from an authority they don't recognise, and subjugated/slaughtered/raped for 200 years, make a bit of money here and there where they can.

Who cares?

 

Meanwhile, corporations like Google (Alphabet) and Facebook (Meta) steal every bit of data about you that you produce and monetize it.  Other corporations involved in mining knowingly add to the climate crisis, poison aquifers and leave massive damage to the land in the name of paying shareholders.

 

To me it's evident that the harm done by major corporations is magnitudes greater than a bit of petty pilfering by some Aboriginal organisations.  It's like worrying about a small scratch on your foot while the corporations are busily amputating your leg.

[red750]

People who paid for tickets to see the Cold Play concert in Melbourne the other night were pi**ed off that they were subjected to a Welcome to Country ceremony before the concert.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Meanwhile, corporations like Google (Alphabet) and Facebook (Meta) steal every bit of data

I read this morning where even your air fryer, if it has smart controls, can record the conversations in your kitchen and send them back to China.

[Marty_d]

2 hours ago, red750 said:

People who paid for tickets to see the Cold Play concert in Melbourne the other night were pi**ed off that they were subjected to a Welcome to Country ceremony before the concert.

 

Has someone who went to the Coldplay concert told you that, or was it from the Murdoch press?

[red750]

The mountain coined the 'beating heart of climbing in Australia' by rock climbers is set to be closed following a secretive  four year investigation into its cultural heritage.

 

Up to half of the tracks around Victoria's Mount Arapiles, in the state's west, will be closed after Parks Victoria found tens of thousands of Indigenous artefacts, scarred trees and rock art.

 

The mountain is known around the world as an incredible rock climbing site with its closure likely to have devastating consequences on local Natimuk community by diminishing tourism.

 

Mt Arapiles' shutdown will also lead to the shutting of the iconic Pines campground.

 

The Victorian government shared news of the closure on Monday, just months after Premier Jacinta Allan promised she wouldn't 'padlock' Victoria's state forests.

 

[red750]

16 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Has someone who went to the Coldplay concert told you that, or was it from the Murdoch press?

A Facebook member complained bitterly about it.

[Bruce Tuncks]

For Marty's benefit, how does he think that aborigines would fare if whitemen never arrived?

Personally, I think that they would be fewer and poorer than they are now. But we can't put our modern selves in their shoes ( oops, they had no shoes before ) because we can't restore the past.

My objection to the "welcome to country" thing is that it is transparently just a precursor for asking for even more money.

[facthunter]

There's an inherent acceptance of "ownership" in these ceremonies.

  I like the " ALL Men are BORN equal." concept. Any other is  bound to end up badly. Correcting recorded History is fine, but accounting for the SINS of the FATHER. who you could not influence Because you didn't exist is  very questionable. Aboriginal People. want all of the modern benefits, when it suites them.. It doesn't matter WHO lives in REMOTE AREAS it's hard and expensive to provide them.. There's over 300 languages none of which help to communicate with the rest of the World. It's part of the Culture, But ALL of us have to consider what happens all over the world. (the bigger Picture) or we are doomed..  Nev

Edited November 6 by facthunter
typo

[spacesailor]

Keep that ceremony! .

But get rid of the ' smoking ' fire .

Especially on " fire banned " days.

Not all of those hundreds of tribes do it .

Also these days .

The same applies to the " olypic flame " .

If the " fire. Ban " is in force . 

No flame/ smoke , No exceptions. 

spacesailor

[facthunter]

My Old Flame . I can't even remember Her Name.............  Nev

[Marty_d]

3 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

For Marty's benefit, how does he think that aborigines would fare if whitemen never arrived?

Personally, I think that they would be fewer and poorer than they are now. But we can't put our modern selves in their shoes ( oops, they had no shoes before ) because we can't restore the past.

My objection to the "welcome to country" thing is that it is transparently just a precursor for asking for even more money.

What, they existed for 60,000 / 40,000 years, but would have suddenly declined in the last 200 if we hadn't swooped in to save them?

 

I agree we can't change the past. Just don't know why people get fired up about giving them the occasional handout when there are so many more egregious bad behaviours by the corporate world which seem to go unremarked.

[old man emu]

The words "reconciliation" and "conciliation", although coming from the same etymological source, conciliare  (Latin) "to bring together, unite in feelings, make friendly," have different inferences.

 

 Conciliation is the act of creating friendly relations. It is something that should be done on first contact.  Reconciliation is the act of causing two people or groups to become friendly again after an argument or disagreement. The problem we face in getting the relationship between Aborigines and non-Aborigines to a mutually acceptable place is that conciliation has never effectively occured. Therefore there can not be any "reconciliation" because there was never a friendship to be broken.

 

IN the 19th Century, Non-Aborigines came onto land which had established boundaries in the Aboriginal "legal" system and simply altered the land use patterns to suit Non-Aboriginal culture, without any attempts to include Aborigines in the process, unless it was to involve them in menial tasks. Very few attempts were made to create relationships that did anything more than discourage violent objection to those alterations.

 

In the 20th Century, Aborigines realised that violent objection was not the answer. During the second half of that century, wider communication with the world exposed Aborigines to the efforts of indigenous peoples in other parts of the World that had been colonised by Europeans to gain equality with Europeans. Those efforts involved the use of political activism, which resulted in the realisation that success would only come from using the systems by which Non-Aborigines ran the society.

 

Now, in the first quarter of the 21st Century, Aboriginal activists use those systems to attain their goals by relying on 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' and turning the intent of Non-Aboriginal laws back onto Non-Aboriginal systems.

 

[facthunter]

What is the final "end  game " of such actions? .  Nev

[spacesailor]

How can we have conciliation , when one party does not

Obey any known law's .

Now with the voice , there's a wedge driven between 

the Aboriginal & the immigrant faction .

Two tribes ! .

Will it end badly, ( for democracy ) .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

What is the final "end  game " of such actions? .  Nev

I really don't know. I don't even think the teams have run onto the field to start the game, or if they have there's only been the coin toss.

[facthunter]

It's about Sovereignty isn't it. ? Nev

[old man emu]

I think that the word 'sovereignty' is misunderstood and therefore misapplied. It's definition is not quite clear. In one sense it can mean "state or character of being in power", and in another it can mean freedom from external control. 

 

While we argue the rights and wrongs of the concept of terra nullius, we have to remember that King George the Third's instructions to Captain Arthur Phillip included a reminder that Cook, having claimed the land in the King's name automatically made the inhabitants subjects of the King, equal in legal stature to any resident of the United Kingdom. As history has moved on from 1770 and the population has been swelled the Aborigines have remained subjects of the Crown. 

 

Threfore, the seeking of Aboriginal sovereignty is akin to all Australians from every ethnic background seeking to end the current constitutional monarchy that we live within. Further, it appears that the goal of Aboriginal sovereignty is to sever the connection between Aborigines and Non-Aborigines from the body of the Nation.

[nomadpete]

Pretty much.

I have not heard any aboriginal spokesperson state what they mean by sovereignty. Or what they actually want as an outcome.

 

My impression is that there is a desire to be deemed as a group to be an autonomous nation within a nation, with the ability to set their own laws, etc.

 

For a start it would be their first unification of hundred or so aboriginal nations in over 40,000 years. Quite an achievement in itself.

 

Secondly, I  am confused as to how they see it working. Do they really want to set their sovereign nation administration up to oversee the present monarchic one? (I think some do). Do they just wish to charge rent as some suggest?

I doubt it, but I  can only speculate as I don't think the proponents (as a group) have any idea themselves.

[facthunter]

My sentiments entirely, embodied in the term I used,"End Game" Nations would appear to be an expansion of tribes. That IS a quantum leap. Does "First Peoples" entitle them to control. If so WHAT do they have control of?. What lifestyle do they want and how would it coexists  or be viable. Would they want the "Best of Both worlds".  Sure the conditions  they experienced in many (  even most) cases were unacceptable and should be examined but in the context of the times they occurred in not to excuse them in any way either.. Remember white women only got the Vote in my lifetime. Context is important and we are not in the ideal  situation yet for all of us. Nev

[willedoo]

5 hours ago, facthunter said:

Remember white women only got the Vote in my lifetime.

Nev, that makes you at least 122 years old. If you mean white women in Australia that is.

[facthunter]

I can't quote the date, but wives had to resign certain Jobs like teaching IF they married. . IF anyone came to the door about anything as they often did in those days, they would ask the woman   if they could speak to  the person in charge, Please. . Nev