Indigenous Sovereignty Demands

[Jerry_Atrick]

On 30/08/2024 at 10:27 PM, nomadpete said:

1:- Integration to bring harmony via compromise. (Didn't work in the past).

 

2:- Provision of a time warp bubble to preserve old ways. (Didn't work in the past).

1. The official policy of integration was to eradicate first nations culture. In other words, subjugation. Why would First Nations people aquiesce to that. I recall the book and move, Roots coming out and how so many people found the courage of Kunta Kinte (sp? but named by his white masters, as Toby) inspiring. Why do we find First Nations peoples rsolve to preserve their culture as a nemesis and not also inspiring? (I am not talking about the sunstance abuse and social behavioural issues).

 

2. This was the official policy of protectionism.. It only didn't work from the perspective that the colonists seruoiusly thought First Nations peoples biology was defective and they would die out. Of course, because of the sacred lands and their national boundaries, preserving them in a bubble would mean giving back the lands, and that was and will never be on the cards, and in reality nor should it.

 

On 30/08/2024 at 10:27 PM, nomadpete said:

I am looking for the all new item 3.

Yes, I think that is mutual.. And this is the rub... what is the all new item that will lead to reconciliation? Does anyone know? Or should society enter into a discussion in GOOD faith? This would mean tear away the BS and the lies and look at the positions and the requests, and work together to get a compromise. I don't know what it is.. It ins't handing back the keys, nor giving carte blanche.. In fact, from what I have read, a lot is about simple recognition and accomodation of some First Nations cultural values in the way society deals with them. Is that too much to ask? Yes, there are some more extreme requests, and should be given short shrift. But we do have to get away from compartmentalising First Nations people's demands  and getting them to conform to entirely western ways. For example, I agree with @Bruce Tuncks - if First nations peoples are using modern methods and tech to hunt traditional prey, they should be somewhat constricted on how much they can catch.

 

On 30/08/2024 at 10:27 PM, nomadpete said:

There have been a few notable such international compensations carried out in recent history, but there must be many thousands that were left to fade as nations merged and shifted through the ages. It would do little to resolve the resentment that rises when one culture gets swamped by another.

 

Yes there have.. But many that haven't been carried out have been where there has been a total takeover. Take Kosovo for example; a previously Christian enclave now taken over by Muslims... completely. But Australian First Nations is different. We still have a population that is First Nations that, regardless of historical injustices suffers some of the worst social problems of any indigenous populations in the world. Well, do we want to look after all of our Australians, or continue the problems because they don't want to betray their culture entirely? By the way, we have made strides in recent years. Of course, I am looking at it from mostly a legal spectrum, but there are Koori courts, and there are, you know, I can't recall the name, but where there is a magistrates case being heard of First Nations people that live on the land, they get the magistrate, the Aunties, family, and accused together in a circle and go through the case. It is definitely a positive step.

 

On 30/08/2024 at 10:27 PM, nomadpete said:

I can only see it being a divisive approach to our conundrum.

I disagree, as long as you keep people like Dutton out of it and keep the narrative and discussion in good faith. .There will be disagreements, but if everything is in good faith, it will eventually come to compromise and agreement. Of course, in the current socio-political environment, that is just a pipedream.

 

On 31/08/2024 at 8:09 AM, Bruce Tuncks said:

Suppose that you lived back then ( first fleet) and could determine just which lot colonised you. I bet that you would, after a lot of reflection, choose the poms as the least worst. Just compare the present riches of the australian abos with that of the latin american indigenous, for example.

I don't disagre with you; in fact I have expressed something similar to First Nations peoples previously. However, this does not mean we should not try and right some previous wrongs and practically accomodate first nations culture within our established Westminster culture. Although, I have to admit, I can't see myself eating any grubs!

 

By now you will have all realised, I am a bit of a mongrel; when I get a bone, I don't want to let it go.

 

Edited September 1 by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

For example, I agree with @Bruce Tuncks - if First nations peoples are using modern methods and tech to hunt traditional prey, they should be somewhat constricted on how much they can catch.

This is dated 14 years ago but it gives some idea of the variation in laws between the States and Commonwealth.

 

https://www.alrc.gov.au/publication/recognition-of-aboriginal-customary-laws-alrc-report-31/35-aboriginal-hunting-fishing-and-gathering-rights-current-australian-legislation/australian-legislation-on-hunting-fishing-and-gathering-an-overview/

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Although, I have to admit, I can't see myself eating any grubs!

Witchetty grubs are very nice to eat. They have a slight peanut flavoured scrambled egg taste. A bit of work involved finding them though.

[onetrack]

It is a basic fallacy and an unsatisfactory approach to try and compare the Aboriginals of Australia with the Negro slaves of America, with the American Red Indians, or even with the Maoris.

All those cultures are vastly different - and if you want to see real hatred and divisiveness, see what the attitude of Aboriginals is towards other black people, and even Maoris - they treat them like dirt.

 

All the Governmental decisions taken in past decades have largely centred around the basic facts that the Aboriginal cultures are largely unable to manage themselves, and manage large amounts of money, in a Western democratic setting of rule.

The Aboriginals live for today, tomorrow doesn't factor into their planning. They rely on constant assistance from others, for their lack of planning ability.

 

"Humbugging" is a unique feature of the Aboriginal culture. "Humbugging" is basically, constant begging for money. Despite being given adequate money in every case of every Aboriginal (they can even get special payments from Centrelink, that Whites can't get). They burn up money as fast as it's given to them, they have zero money management ability. In many remote areas, you'll see signs stating "no humbugging".

 

At my local shopping centre, 5kms from the Perth CBD, the entrance doors are regularly blocked by Aboriginals begging - on a constant daily basis. This is the "mob" who claim they have constantly been robbed - and yet they have just been given land rights over the entire S.W. Region of W.A., and been given $1.5B in direct cash payment, plus the Govt set up no less than SEVEN new Aboriginal corporate bodies, just specially for this group - all fully Govt funded for 12 years - at a reported cost of another $600M! All this for just 3,500 claimants.

 

https://www.noongarboodjatrust.info/

 

If you've ever travelled in the remote areas or isolated rural areas, you'll often encounter Aboriginals who have run out of fuel in their car - because they never factored in fuel use in their trip planning.

It was never a requirement of their original culture or lifestyle, and nothing has changed in their outlook in the 236 years since Europeans arrived and set up their ordered and planned society, and style of Govt.

 

The Aborigines are the original communists, they never owned anything of manufactured value, apart from spears, nulla-nullas, woomeras, grindstones and dilly bags. As a result, they have little respect for the intrinsic value of manufactured items of value.

The Govt of Australia builds them nice houses in remote locations, at mind-boggling cost - and they totally destroy them, because they lack appreciation of what has been provided for them, and the cost involved.

Then they complain the houses weren't designed properly for their cultural usage requirements. They demand to be treated differently to Europeans, and to always get special treatment.

 

Their attitude is similar to children, with constant demands for unearned rewards, selfish behaviour, constant demands for money for doing nothing, constant demands for expensive items they have no appreciation for.

It's little wonder that the bulk of the hard-working Australian population gets sick of the constant whining, complaining, and demanding of "entitlements", that accompany most Aboriginal outbursts.

 

As to the constant complaints about "stolen" Aboriginal land, I'd wager very few Aboriginals even know, or appreciate, that they now have freehold ownership and vast amounts of control over more than 16% of the Australian land mass - as well as receiving multiple billions in monetary compensation, in various forms. All this, for a culture that makes up just 3% of the Australian population.

 

https://www.pc.gov.au/closing-the-gap-data/dashboard/se/outcome-area15/land-and-water-ownership#:~:text=Nationally as at June 2023,baseline year) (figure SE15a.

 

https://www.nsw.gov.au/living-in-nsw/aboriginal-outcomes/healing/stolen-generations/reparations#:~:text=The Stolen Generations Reparations Scheme provided ex-gratia payments to,applications on 30 June 2023.

 

 

Edited September 2 by onetrack

[red750]

A private school will no longer be able to hold school camps on a South Australian island after a Native Title ruling. 

 

Students at Adelaide's Scotch College had enjoyed going to Goose Island, on the Yorke Peninsula, for school camps since 1966, taking part in activities like snorkelling, kayaking and sailing.

 

The school's licence to access the island was due to expire in 2027, but trips to Goose Island will now end later this year.

 

Scotch College was permitted to use the island for camps through a licence agreement with the Department of Environment and Water.

 

However, in March last year, the Federal Court ruled the Narungga people were Native Title holders of the state's Yorke Peninsula, which includes Goose Island.

 

Scotch College Principal Trent Driver said he was 'profoundly disappointed' that a request had been made for the school to 'hand the island back to traditional owners for alternative uses'.

 

'After several months of good faith negotiations and discussions between the College and DEW, we were informed the licence agreement with Scotch will now end in December 2024, and we will not have access to the island for school programs in the years ahead,' he said in a letter to parents on Tuesday, The Advertiser reported.

[onetrack]

Former ATSIC head, Aboriginal Geoff Clark, found guilty of $1M fraud, whereby he diverted ATSIC funds to his own personal use. His son has also been found guilty of fraud, associated with his fathers rorting.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-04/former-atsic-head-geoff-clark-found-guilty-fraud/104308834

[Marty_d]

Scotch College? Really? We're meant to be upset that a school which charges $30k per year per child can't visit some island?

For that money they could send the kids to the Bahamas for their camp, although it may get a bit boring for some of them as Daddy takes them in his private jet every holiday anyway.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I didn't get Marty' problem, but I sure reckon that they( the abos) would soon learn about money management if they were faced with any consequences of their actions.Like Uluru ...   I think that the "no climb" rule has been rescinded, because it kept tourists away.

 

[old man emu]

Am I wrong, or are the Aboriginal groups of South Australia very reactionary?

 

Wasn't it another S.A. group that tried to stop a proposed bridge to Hindmarsh Island, near Goolwa, South Australia. In 1994, a group of Ngarrindjeri women elders claimed the site was sacred to them for reasons that could not be revealed. The Hindmarsh Island Royal Commission found that "secret women's business" had been fabricated.

[spacesailor]

Not only the " climbing ban " but ,

NO TOURIST PHOTOS.  

Really needed to be shouted out.

All those overseas visitors,  going home without photos.

imagine,  no photo of the " Opera house " or other 

Tourist attractions. 

spacesailor

PS : I took photographs of every sign with the rock in the background. 

Edited September 5 by spacesailor
PS added

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, I just hate it when they try and enforce their beliefs over what I regard as common sense. I was not aware of the ban on taking photos, but I can imagine it. Apparently, the $50 note not only has a picture of a dead person on it, it has a picture of a dead blackfellow!

There is no known example of $50 being declined on these grounds.

[spacesailor]

but

will you except a $ note without Queen Elizabeth's picture on it .

my first money had the king ,

then changed to the QUEEN ,

and I suppose ,

back to a king .

three monarchs in one lifetime,  not too bad .

but then, there's , William. 

spacesailor

[old man emu]

Senator Jacinta Price was interviewed on Sky New about an incident related to a "Welcome to Country" ceremony at an AFL game, and the co-opting of Aboriginal topics into the recent arms dealers' convention in Melbourne.

 

Her comments struck me a being so positive in promoting unification of Aboriginals and non-Aboriginals to simply be Australians. You can hear her comments from the 0:50 time stamp in this video.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

As much as i don't like to disagree with onetrack, I have to with respect to "the first nations culture".

I reckon its a terrible culture, especially for the womenfolk. My first idea about this was to wonder why they tended to stay with the rough white man who kidnapped them, till I found just how badly they were treated by the tribe. This was as a youth in the 1950's Alice Springs.