Let's Start a Billion Dollar Used Car Business!

[Jerry_Atrick]

A little tongue in cheek, but this popped up in my news feed yesterday:

 

 

Thanks to the Ultra Low Emission Zone in London, and also being introduced into other major cities, where a £12.50 per day charge to drive more polluting cars apply, the used car values have dropped of these older cars. Generally, diesels before 2016 and petrols before 2003 are affected... which is a gold mine for poicking these up on the ultra-cheap and sending them to Aus, sticking in side door stiffeners, and changing the speedo to kph and voila - have a ready made market!

 

(IOf course, the cost of shipping and other import regs are issues that need to be dealt with)..

 

But seriously, Australia introducing fuel efficiency standards required by the US only 50 years ago... Nice to see we care for the planet and our peoples' health.

 

 

[old man emu]

Here's and interesting possible consequence. At the moment fuel available in Australia is "dirty" compared the fuel in many other countries. As a result, car manufacturers are treating Australia like a Third World country and dumping vehicles with inefficient engines on us. Because the engines are inefficient, we are polluting more than we should be. When these new emission standards come in, the vehicles will require fuel that doesn't contain the impurities of the stuff we are using now. 

 

Despite the EV surge, there will still be a considerable proportion of ICE vehicles being used for some years to come. It is not unreasonable to expect a contemporary vehicle to have a lifespan of at least twenty years. I wonder if, as a result of the better quality of fuel that should be available, whether these old bangers will experience better fuel consumption. Afterall, if fuel at present has, say, about 2.5% non-combustible contaminants, using fuel that is closer to 100% combustible had got to produce more power per liter of fuel used, resulting in more kilometres per litre of fuel. My car uses about 7.5 litres per 100 km, and has a 55 litre tank. That gives a theoretical range of about 730 kms, which I do get if I don't use the air conditioner. If better fuel reduced my consumption to just 7 litres per 100 km, that would increase my range to 780 km, which is about a 6% range increase. That is a saving of 50 litres of fuel per 10,000 kms.

[facthunter]

Those vehicles are old now and increasingly . If they are commercial and do more miles  they would be beyond economical operation and reliability  demands. Get the sulphur out of diesel that's the Main thing. EGR reduces fuel efficiency but cuts NOx emissions. Which do you prioritize? Maybe DPF can be added?  You won't get a full sized van down to 6 L/100 kms. The best petrol engines are diesel equal as far as fuel economy goes..  Perhaps the exhaust heat could be better utilised? Nev

[spacesailor]

I believe the ' newer diesel motors are more economical ( V8  ) than the old four cylinder engine. 

According to my daughters V8 Toyota Cruiser . Can get to 8.5 LPG 100 .

My 1998 Mitsubishi , 2.8 litre turbo gets 12.5 at best .

But . A V8 Chevy,  with it's " turn- off " cylinders can beat almost all of them .

spacesailor

[spenaroo]

On 07/02/2024 at 8:14 PM, old man emu said:

Here's and interesting possible consequence. At the moment fuel available in Australia is "dirty" compared the fuel in many other countries. As a result, car manufacturers are treating Australia like a Third World country and dumping vehicles with inefficient engines on us. Because the engines are inefficient, we are polluting more than we should be. When these new emission standards come in, the vehicles will require fuel that doesn't contain the impurities of the stuff we are using now. 

I call BS on the engines, and being a dumping ground.

the engines are the same regardless of the market.

Australia is such a tiny market, its not worth a production line dedicated to our market.

 

we just have different tuning in the ECU and maybe a different exhaust.
believe it or not the power figures for the vehicles in Australia are higher then then those of Europe - because we don't have to lean out the mixtures to meet emissions. 

 

Ducati for the last 10 years has been constantly improving the engines in there bikes.... to keep the same power figures as the previous generation,
as they have to continually choke them with emissions. so much improvement, but on the specs sheets its not shown.

14 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I believe the ' newer diesel motors are more economical ( V8  ) than the old four cylinder engine. 

According to my daughters V8 Toyota Cruiser . Can get to 8.5 LPG 100 .

My 1998 Mitsubishi , 2.8 litre turbo gets 12.5 at best .

But . A V8 Chevy,  with it's " turn- off " cylinders can beat almost all of them .

spacesailor

oh yeah, the improvement in engines is amazing.
especially with the electronics and direct injection.

however the turn-off cylinders, and start and stop devices kill engines.

horrible for oil lubrication systems.

[old man emu]

36 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

call BS on the engines, and being a dumping ground.

Just regurgitating what the meeja has fed me. 

 

You are correct that it seems illogical for a company producing  engines by the million to divert production to suit a market that is only in the thousands. I forgot that the ECU can be tweaked to account for dirty fuel.

 

38 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

start and stop devices kill engines.

Whenever I notice this in a car stopped beside me at traffic light, I can't held thinking about the drain on the battery, the extra wear and tear on the starter motor and the associated flywheel ring gear. Also, imaging the traffic chaos that would arise if this system failed in a car at a set of traffic lights on a major road during peak hour!!!!!!!

[facthunter]

You can select out of the engine stop  function. I've not heard of starter motor problems. I presume they are designed for the life they do.. The motor starts instantly. Quicker than your foot can get from the brake pedal to the accelerator. .It's for cities in Europe . Not the Adelaide hills.  Nev

[onetrack]

The Subarus have no way of selecting either on or off, on the engine stop/start function. Stepdaughter has one, and inquired with the Subaru dealer as to how to switch it off, but she was told it's not possible, it's part of the emissions package.

Strangely enough, some of the brands fitted with the engine stop-start are wired so that it's turned off when you insert the trailer wiring plug. So a few smart people have engineered a dummy wiring plug so the system is switched off.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I've not heard of starter motor problems

I bet you've heard of Murphy's Law, though.

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, spenaroo said:

the engines are the same regardless of the market.

I'm not so sure.

 

This anecdote os old news and possibly no longer appilcable but it indicates that big manufacturers can an do make production line changes for different markets......

 

Back in the days when Nissan was a Japanese product, I  wore out an engine and found that there was a cheaper and quicker alternative to rebuilding it. There was, at the time, a thriving industry whereby low mileage second hand engines were being brought from Japan.

 

I paid the man and drove out with a nice strong motor that afternoon.

 

However, the motor started using oil and by 100,000k it was blowing smoke. Turned out that the emissions rules in Japan at the time required all cars to get emissions tested after a couple of years from new. Fail the test, and scrap the car. I learned that allegedly Nissan and probably others fitted soft rings that bed in more quickly, in order to meet emissions test out of the showroom. But they would not make the mileage that Australians  do. Also, the inlet and exhaust manifolds and all plumbing was not transferrable to the identical Australian block. And (so I was told but couldn't verify), different for european or US markets which all had/have different emission laws. I bought standard rings and bearings and put them myself.

 

My point is this, modern production lines can and do change a lot just to suit the destination market, even a market as small as ours.

[nomadpete]

Just now, old man emu said:

I bet you've heard of Murphy's Law, though.

I can remember I used to pull the stirry stick out of the boot and poke it into a hole in the bumper bar to start the car manually - when Murphy struck.

[facthunter]

I wouldn't think they run the same starters as the earlier models. Mechanics would know and I know a lot of them who do  work for dealers etc..  Nev

[spacesailor]

I have just ( hour ago ) found , there is no physical handbrake,  on a Tesla m3 .

spacesailor

[onetrack]

All the current model starters are designated PLGR (Planetary Gear Reduction) starters - they have a smaller motor running at high speed, driving through a tiny planetary gearbox onto the pinion shaft and gear.

These starter motors draw less current, are lighter, are more reliable, and are longer lasting than the old direct drive starters with their huge motor and huge current draw.

 

The major problem I've found with them is the engagement or shift fork (also called "the lever") between the solenoid and pinion engagement mechanism, is made out some cheap plastic, and it wears out - thus preventing pinion engagement, or failing to hold the pinion in an engaged position when the solenoid is activated.

They're a bit of a PIA, but I've found about 200 types of starters for 200 different models, all use the same lever, so it's easy enough to scrounge up a replacement lever from the scrappies, with their IBC's full of scrapped starters.

You can't buy the lever as a part here, you can only buy a new solenoid, or a complete new starter (which is what most people do) - but you can buy the new levers off AliExpress for about $6 to $8.

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-starter-motor-shift-fork.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.search.0

 

Edited February 9 by onetrack

[nomadpete]

37 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I have just ( hour ago ) found , there is no physical handbrake,  on a Tesla m3 .

spacesailor

That is common on many current model cars.

[octave]

36 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I have just ( hour ago ) found , there is no physical handbrake,  on a Tesla m3 .

spacesailor

If by physical you mean a cable that operates the brake pads then yes. It does have a handbrake though. It is electrically operated. 

[spacesailor]

I asked the owner , he said " automatically " engaged when the car stops " .

Indicator stalk has button to release it .

So ! . 

Is it legal ? 

spacesailor

[octave]

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

I asked the owner , he said " automatically " engaged when the car stops " .

Indicator stalk has button to release it .

So ! . 

Is it legal ? 

spacesailor

Why wouldn't it be legal? A handbrake needs to be able to hold the vehicle on a hill. The handbrake on a Tesla and indeed many other modern cars operates this way.

[onetrack]

Too much stuff on EV's such as Tesla is electrically operated with no backup. You get a major power loss and nothing works, you can't even open the door handles from the outside. This is faulty design at its worst.

[old man emu]

No hand brake!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How do you do handbrake turns? 

 

Hoons like to do handbrake turns, but they actually train drivers who chauffeur political figures to do these turns as a method of escaping from interception attempts. Of course, in the sport of rallying, no corner can be rounded without a quick pull on the handbrake lever.

 

 

 

[octave]

A lot of things that people complain about as if they are unique to EVs but in fact what they are really complaining about is modern technology that is in both IC AND EV. 

 

 https://www.drive.com.au/news/handbrake-turn-e-parking-brake/

 

https://www.carthrottle.com/news/less-third-new-cars-have-manual-handbrake

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by octave

[onetrack]

There's no way in the world where I'm ever going to buy a new vehicle that has only electric control of vital things such as handbrakes and doors. Current car designers want your car to be just a mobile phone on wheels, with an equivalent lifespan to a mobile phone. "Your EV battery is shot? Too easy! - just dump your car in this car recyling bin, and go buy a new one, they are SO cheap, now!!"  

 

Edited February 10 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Not being able to open doors when flooded applies to a lot of cars. That is not really acceptable as car locks must release post crash. has been a requirement for a long time.  Nev

[Marty_d]

My car doesn't have a handbrake, it's an extra pedal footbrake.  So yes theoretically I could do a "handbrake" turn but not sure how quick I could get it off again, so I don't think I'll be trying it any time soon.

[old man emu]

It appears that the electronic brake application system can be used in an emergency to stop the vehicle. From watching this video, I get the impression that the electronic brake will not "lock" the wheels like an manual brake does, but applies the brakes enough to stop the vehicle while the wheels are gradually slowed. This is a good thing because if the rear wheels are locked, they skid and any steering input from the front wheels will cause the rear tow rotate away from the centre line of the vehicle and the vehicle can start to pirouette down the road, out o control.