Uses for the Submarines

[fly_tornado]

We have a lot of low paid workers in Australia, mostly backpackers and foreign students working in agriculture. We have on average 8 unemployed people for every vacant position, if the government subsidized employers to take on those unskilled workers we would all be paying 3 times the amount of tax we are paying now. Who really wants that?

 

The problem is there isn't that much demand for unskilled labor anymore. People would rather buy a new 4x4 made in Thailand than fix their 15 year old Landcruiser. That's how the free market works.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

The people working for what we consider low wages are very very grateful for those jobs.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

sell the idea to your grand kids that after being forced to do 12 years of schooling that they should be forever living below the poverty line.

 

 

[Geoff13]

We in Australia have the highest wages of any of the industrialised western countries.

 

That is in large part thanks to Unions. As a result we have priced ourselves out of manufacturing and a myriad of other jobs.

 

The wages bubble like the housing bubble will burst but until then we can thank the unions for destroying our manufacturing industry through pandering to the greed of its bosses.

 

I am all for good sustainable wages.

 

Unions on the other hand are all for increased wages at any cost. Well sorry folks but it is about time to pay the fiddler and that is not going to improve anytime soon.

 

 

[Methusala]

Opinions'a'plenty but can someone actually do some research on the comparison of wages paid in manufacturing vs those paid in say, mining or service industries. How do wages compare for computer services and finance occupations? Many prepared to blame car workers but is it simply pointing 'over there...see, that bloke has done this country in, not me!'

 

 

[fly_tornado]

2 minutes on google and to work out that is clearly not true. our wages are high because we work long hours

 

 

 

[Bruce]

Here's me, at 70, clearing fallen branches at the farm, wishing I could afford one of the hundreds of local young people on newstart to help me lift the heavy bits. Alas, there is not enough money in sheep to pay the minimum wage and that doesn't even take into account the risk you might lose the farm if your employee hurts themselves and a smart lawyer sues you.

 

And then I have to pay the tax which supports them while I do the work and they gradually become unemployable.

 

Surely we could do better than this, for example allowing them to keep the dole if they work for the sort of industry that currently has to employ backpackers because they can't afford high wages.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I feel your pain Bruce, but why are we allowed to pay backpackers less than the minimum wage. Therein lies one of the fundamental failures in our wages system.

 

 

[DrZoos]

There are three evils that need to be carefully balanced and managed

 

1. lazy political minds and discussions

 

2. Overpowerful corupt an innept unions

 

3. greedy immoral coorporations

 

lots of people are worth way more than they get paid and just as many or more are worth payng something , but are not productive enough to warrant Australias very high minimum wage.

 

 

[DrZoos]

I feel your pain Bruce, but why are we allowed to pay backpackers less than the minimum wage. Therein lies one of the fundamental failures in our wages system.

Because aussies wont do it in many cases....i offered to pay a few local kids $12 an hour to wash my cars and do some jobs on a regular basis....they refused and said it wasnt worth thier time...

 

 

[Bruce]

Geoff, there are lots of small business people who work for less than the minimum wage.

 

To answer your question, the public demands cheap food and this is impossible to produce if you have to pay the minimum wage.

 

They need cheap food because they are paying huge mortgages or rents and there is not much left over to buy food.

 

They are paying huge housing costs because we are importing more than 1000 people every day and this puts upwards pressure on housing costs.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Plus we allow foriegn ownership to push up housng costs....there is no logical reason for foriegn property ownership when we already allow negative gearing and multiple property purchases , as well as tax deduction for corporations owning property...

 

The big issue now is unwinding that gross mistake without bursting the housing bubble. How in our situation is it ever beneficial to allow firiegn property ownership....its an export of wealth

 

If you dnt believe me on that try playing monopooy for any duration without buying a property

 

As a third world country foriegn property ownership can prop up foriegn investment and jobs, but in our situation foriegn property ownership is a blight on future wealth of

 

Australians for the wealth of those currently selling and near end of life.

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

We in Australia have the highest wages of any of the industrialised western countries.That is in large part thanks to Unions. As a result we have priced ourselves out of manufacturing and a myriad of other jobs.

 

The wages bubble like the housing bubble will burst but until then we can thank the unions for destroying our manufacturing industry through pandering to the greed of its bosses.

 

I am all for good sustainable wages.

 

Unions on the other hand are all for increased wages at any cost. Well sorry folks but it is about time to pay the fiddler and that is not going to improve anytime soon.

I think from memory we need to pay the piper, the fiddler is in a union and probably on an RDO as we

 

speak.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Very good LOL.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Australian wages are high because cost of living is high. Or is it the other way around? Dr Zoos is on the right track with property prices. Only it's not foreign ownership to blame, it's all speculative investment pure and simple. Negative gearing is a complete rort but no one has the political will to get rid of it (or personal will for that matter... what did Abbott say, he hopes his Sydney property continues to grow in value?)

 

Of course ditching negative gearing by itself is not going to fix it but it'd be a damn good start.

 

Apparently only Canada and Belgium are more expensive places to live than here. (Source: http://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2014/jun/12/why-australia-third-most-expensive-houses)

 

I guess if it all gets too much, move to Thailand and buy a palace for $60k, then live like a king on your age pension.

 

The point is, you can't expect people to work for less than it costs them to live. If you want cheap labour it has to cost less to live here.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

There are lots of kids hanging around the streets of country towns and self-described artists who seem to live OK in our high cost society at present. I would gladly pay $10 to $15 an hour for them to prune trees and do other tasks on the property and it would be extra money for them, money they would not otherwise have. But I would be breaking the law.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Australian wages are high because cost of living is high. Or is it the other way around? Dr Zoos is on the right track with property prices. Only it's not foreign ownership to blame, it's all speculative investment pure and simple. Negative gearing is a complete rort but no one has the political will to get rid of it (or personal will for that matter... what did Abbott say, he hopes his Sydney property continues to grow in value?)Of course ditching negative gearing by itself is not going to fix it but it'd be a damn good start.

 

Apparently only Canada and Belgium are more expensive places to live than here. (Source: http://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2014/jun/12/why-australia-third-most-expensive-houses)

 

I guess if it all gets too much, move to Thailand and buy a palace for $60k, then live like a king on your age pension.

 

The point is, you can't expect people to work for less than it costs them to live. If you want cheap labour it has to cost less to live here.

If they only took the Sydney and Melbourne property markets, the cost of housing here would most likely be much higher than Belgium which is only about the size of those 2 cities. The cost of housing is therefore somewhat diluted when adding regional and country Australia. Here at Corindi Beach you can get a brand new 4 bedroom brick and tile house on a 600 sq metre block for under $400,000. It's a few minutes walk from anywhere to a spectacular beach. In Sydney that would buy the driveway to your Garage, or in inner Sydney it would not do that as you would not even have a garage.

 

I agree that speculative investment is the disease and low interest rates plus foreign investment the cause. Every week or so the Auction clearance rate is on the TV news. When the camera pans the attendees and focuses on a smiling winning bidder a high percentage appear to be Asian. When they are not the winning bidder it is an Agent buying for an investor via phone.

 

 

[Marty_d]

There are lots of kids hanging around the streets of country towns and self-described artists who seem to live OK in our high cost society at present. I would gladly pay $10 to $15 an hour for them to prune trees and do other tasks on the property and it would be extra money for them, money they would not otherwise have. But I would be breaking the law.

A neighbour's daughter took her guitar into Hobart a while back and did some busking in the mall. Made $80 in one hour. If they're a good muso they can do pretty well sometimes. (Of course, if she'd stayed there the whole day her average hourly rate would probably be much less.)

 

 

[Marty_d]

When the camera pans the attendees and focuses on a smiling winning bidder a high percentage appear to be Asian. When they are not the winning bidder it is an Agent buying for an investor via phone.

That doesn't necessarily mean overseas investment. Have you been to Melbourne lately? I'd be surprised if the winning bidder wasn't Asian over half of the time, and probably 3rd generation Aussie. I think the days of assuming someone's birth country by their race are over.

 

 

[kgwilson]

That doesn't necessarily mean overseas investment. Have you been to Melbourne lately? I'd be surprised if the winning bidder wasn't Asian over half of the time, and probably 3rd generation Aussie. I think the days of assuming someone's birth country by their race are over.

I didn't indicate or say the investor via phone was Asian or from off-shore & noted that those shown on TV just "Appear" to be Asian. Many have made pretty savvy investments in property & while it is going the way it is in the big smoke you make hay while the sun shines. There are plenty though with fortunes made from the Chinese economic miracle that are getting involved & while there are enough loopholes in the system to drive the QE2 through that will continue. Yes we have a huge mix of races in Australia. Some that go back the furthest are Chinese who came to work the goldfields over 150 years ago.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

real eastate is also a great way to lauder money. I was under the impression if you get caught bribing an official of the PRC they can seize your assetts pretty swiftly.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

They're also prone to shooting as well.

 

While I was in Chongqing there was a news article, one woman racked up nearly 400,000,000 RMB in profit from real estate deals due to bribing officials to sign over to her land which was not zoned planned or permitted for construction.

 

She ended up with a 7.62mm cerebral hemorrhage and so did a couple of the officials.

 

 

[Bryon]

The main issue that I see is; our govt has cowtowed to foreign countries and dropped all import tariffs to achieve a 'level playing field' This is called "politicians sucking up to other countries to try and set themselves up for an ambassadorship" (see Tony Abbot)

 

The problem with that is....we are the only ones on that playing field

 

No other country has no import tariffs

 

Fifty years ago, Australia had a very strong manufacturing base, and if we had closed the doors to Australia, we would have survived quite easily.

 

Unfortunately we voted the Labor Party into power and it has a been a downhill slide since then

 

The Labor Party is based in communism and is controlled by the Fabien Society which has as its doctrine that ALL people should be dependent on the government for their survival. the only way to do this is to put everyone on the dole/pension and then you have the ideal communist state.

 

Have a look at the economic history of the major western countries. Every time labor is in power, the economy is run down into deficit. It then takes a a liberal or conservative govt to pull it out of the poo. The only time labor is any good is in wartime, they can marshal the workforce

 

My response to all this is....stop selling our raw materials to overseas and value add to them here thus increasing our manufacturing base and making us a strong nation again

 

Countries such as China and Japan have only grown rich because we were stupid enough to sell our raw materials to them. They processed the raw material and sold the finished product back to us at highly inflated prices

 

End of rant......

 

 

[fly_tornado]

you old guys don't get it, stopping all the cheap cars and electronics coming in from overseas would make living in Australia unbearable, we would be stuck living a 1950s lifestyle. Imagine no internet, all the wonder drugs, no foreign travel. stuck buying obsolete copies of austins.

 

What you guys want is north korea but run by john howard

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Have a look at the economic history of the major western countries. Every time labor is in power, the economy is run down into deficit. It then takes a a liberal or conservative govt to pull it out of the poo. The only time Labor is any good is....

Well perhaps you have the best of both worlds now the Liberals are led by a Labor leader. Extra bonus just for you, he also happens to admire communist dictators.