Who wants to live forever?

[Marty_d]

...And no, I realise this is not the music thread.  It isn't Freddy Mercury crooning that one.

 

Maybe this should be in the random thoughts thread as it was just something I was musing about in the shower today.  

 

But the gist of it is, the hook for most religions is that they offer you eternal life, for nothing more than your belief and a small financial gratuity.  But they haven't really thought it through.  What exactly would heaven be like, for you to be able to bear it forever?

The common conception in christianity is a kind of hero worship.  God and Jesus are sitting there and everyone is kind of sitting around them, basking in the glory and basically... doing nothing.

Look, raising 3 kids and working full time, with countless home renovations and trying to build a plane at the same time, I get that relaxing would be nice.  For about 2 weeks.  After that, find me something to do or I'm just going to get up to mischief.  

The muslims make it slightly more interesting by giving the honoured few 72 virgins. (Is it heaven for the virgins, or hell?)  So ok.  That might be fun for a while.  But after a few weeks, they're not virgins.  Unless they get replaced?  Then they start comparing notes, start complaining that you're not meeting their needs, eventually organise strikes... but anyway.  Even if they were gorgeous, eager and easily satisfied, how long would it be fun for?  Wouldn't you start wishing for meaningful work, or a decent shed to hide away in?

 

I guess the point is that what makes the fun things in life fun, is that there's a limited opportunity to experience them.  Holidays in France are memorable because they're only a few weeks.  If they were for years, then it wouldn't be a holiday, it'd just be where you live. 

The stupid thing is, as humans we are aware that we only have a short time on this planet.  So we should be doing something exciting and satisfying every minute of every day.  But do we?  How many hours to we waste in jobs we don't find fulfilling, housework, arguing with loved ones, worrying about money, about relationships, about all the distracting and boring shit that comprises 99% of our time?

 

So death, inevitably, is what makes life special.  We're alive for a mere flash of time between billions of years of not yet being alive, and billions of years of no longer being alive.  But even in that short time, up to 100 years if we're lucky, we may get to the stage where we're ready to die.

 

How, then, does the prospect of any sort of eternal life hold any appeal?  

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Jeepers.. May need some help from Wolfie to comprehend all that...

 

But I get it.. and it is why suddenly things like moving back to Aus are accelerating...

Mind you, depending on the virgins, I may take a little longer than a couple of weeks to get bored.. 72 of them. eh? One a day makes it a touch over 10 weeks, and assuming they take my fancy.. well, you ge the picture.. But, they may wear me out and get bored of me long beeofre the 11th week.

 

Time is free, yet it is the most valuable resource we have. Use it wisely... Is what I tgell my kids.

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, Marty_d said:

The muslims make it slightly more interesting by giving the honoured few 72 virgins. (Is it heaven for the virgins, or hell?) 

They are only there if they tread on a duck.

[red750]

They could give me the 72 virgins now, nothing I could do about. Cancer replaced the banana with a raisin 10 years ago.

[nomadpete]

7 hours ago, Marty_d said:

giving the honoured few 72 virgins.

Marty might get a different deal (since he seems to have an aversion to 72 or even 71 nonspecific virgins).

I do see a possible negative  with that... who could stand an eternity filled with constant moaning, weeping and wailing?

 

Marty and Jerry might get their own heavenly reward - a fully refurbished, central heated hangar filled with fully maintained eternally fuelled and serviced aircraft. And clear skies (except for isolated cumulus populated by unhappy muslim blokes and moaning virgins)

Edited April 21 by nomadpete

[old man emu]

A belief in an afterlife seems to be something inherent in mammals (and birds) which live in small groups where each member recognises all others. When one of the group dies the rest gather and perform some sort of behaviour that we humans anthropomorphise as something grief for the loss. Note that that behaviour does not apply to dead members of other groups.

 

As human society developed, there were the mundane things of survival and the celebratory things. After a lifetime where the mundane was ever so much more than the celebratory, is it any wonder that the main hope of life after death was a time of fun and games? Look at the ancient Mediterranean cultures. Their afterlife was one of relaxation in pleasant surroundings. For the Vikings it was music and feasting. For Hindus, it is another go on the roundabout.

 

However for Christians it's all harps and hallelujahs. Christ said that his heavenly father would build a house in heaven for those who died in His grace. No talk of choir practice all day long. It must have been one of those misogynistic, sourpuss Fathers of the Church sometime in the First Millennium who decided to foist that sitting on clouds playing the harp and getting a Handel on a boring song on the faithful.

 

As for the Muslims and their 72 virgins, remember that virginity is like a party balloon - one prick and it's gone. 

[spenaroo]

Stephen Fry

does a really good video on this. ill dig it up later.

 

where he talks about it having an appeal to a certain demographic.

the middle aged women who's kids are now adults and have their own lives.

they are struggling not having a purpose and identity... and this offers them one - even though its our idea of hell

I also see its appeal to Men as a network - seen it in my own family.
the leadership and sense of purpose greater then ones self

[facthunter]

Not being able to come to grips with death. Conceit. I'm too important to "just"die". There Must be a purpose. WHY? Have a look at a starry sky and try to imagine how big the universe is, and how small you are . Every living thing dies.   Nev

[nomadpete]

22 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Have a look at a starry sky and try to imagine how big the universe is,

To me, that's proof enough that 'life, as we know it....' is a rare molecular progression.

 

As such, I don't feel a need to justify it. So, I think we should try not to mess up the conditions that make life possible on this third rock from the sun.(and I try hard to behave accordingly). I care about life of future generations, too, which might be related to climate awareness and avoiding soiling our own earthly nest.

Edited April 22 by nomadpete

[facthunter]

This is the ONLY place we realistically will inhabit. It's unique. We are too stupid  and GREEDY collectively to care for it.. Conditions HERE shaped us over millions of years. Nev

[nomadpete]

All the molecules in me, have ever been and will ever be in me, have been here at least ever since the big bang. Even though, like my passage through a birth canal 72 years ago,  I can't remember any of it.

After my 'demise' My molecules will continue on in many different arrangements until the next big bang.

 

Life is the greatest adventure in consiousness, regardless of whatever one's  spiritual beliefs are.

 

All I can say is....

 

Awesome!

 

 

[Marty_d]

14 minutes ago, facthunter said:

This is the ONLY place we realistically will inhabit. It's unique. We are too stupid  and GREEDY collectively to care for it.. Conditions HERE shaped us over millions of years. Nev

Elon Musk has plans for Mars.  We can only hope that he and his best mates are booked on the first ship there.

[willedoo]

I try to keep it simple. I was born, am currently living and one day I'll die. That's it, end of story. No different from a bird or lizard.

[nomadpete]

5 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Elon Musk has plans for Mars.  We can only hope that he and his best mates are booked on the first ship there.

I think if we pass the hat around, we would raise the world's biggest donation to somebody's election fund as long as it got him a seat on that spaceship.

[willedoo]

9 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

I think if we pass the hat around, we would raise the world's biggest donation to somebody's election fund as long as it got him a seat on that spaceship.

It wouldn't be necessary if Marty's wish came true.

 

17 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Elon Musk has plans for Mars.  We can only hope that he and his best mates are booked on the first ship there.

That would get rid of Donald and Vladimir as well.

[octave]

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.

Susan Ertz

[facthunter]

Heaven is UP THERE but on a sphere that's every direction imaginable. Any trip to Mars will be one way. People who go there will experience loneliness at a new level..   Nev

[Marty_d]

I think Musk reckons his spaceships will transport 100 at a time, but in reality there'd only be enough room for him and his ego.

[spacesailor]

me !.

2042 big party .

To watch a ' century go past ' is ten decades of memories 

 ' the Time Machine ' .

 

2062 , four or , five years to that ' world record ' ,

That the French Women set . Nasty to be denied that record ,

On the accusation ' she took her older sisters identity ' .

Jeanne Louise calment 122 years old . Road her bicycle at 90 .

Sold her Parisian apartment,  with a live in contract .

That the purchaser,  gave back, for her 100 birthday .

spacesailor

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon the trinity constitute the very antithesis of democracy and it would be very boring to have to spend each day praising them up. 

A bit like living in north korea and having to spend all your time praising kim jong  un.

Good thing I don't think it at all likely, this live-forever nonsense. Well I guess they lived a thousand years before the idea of democracy entered anybody's head.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon the idea of a King is the opposite of democracy. Imagine how good a hold on power you need to be able to pass on the power to your children. What gets my goat is people like my mother who used to say how hard it was that the queen had to work.

Well she has long ago passed away and yet my mother-in-law says the same thing!  Bugger, I can't win.

[nomadpete]

But Bruce, having a supreme being to praise, makes life so simple. Just think of how simple your life is when you accept a king or other dictator during your mortal life, and an eternal alpha male god for the remainder of eternity.

A bit like staying a child forever.

[spacesailor]

I prefer the English system with all it's failings .

It's not a true " monarchy " as the government has absolute power .

A Republic , is only one step away from a " Dictatorship " .

One slip and you've lost your vote . The government will choose who ' you ' put as 

the head of their country .

spacesailor

[red750]

America is close to that if they don't wake up to themselves.

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

I prefer the English system with all it's failings .

It's not a true " monarchy " as the government has absolute power .

A Republic , is only one step away from a " Dictatorship " .

One slip and you've lost your vote . The government will choose who ' you ' put as 

the head of their country .

spacesailor

Yes and no.

 

Offically, under the UK's unwritten consititution, the Monarch is "the found of all justice", which means the mondarch (and only the monarch - not the rest of the royal family) have absolute power over the law. The monarch, if so desired, can dossolve parliament. In my dealings with the military here, as in Aus, they made it clear their allegiance was to the monarch and not the government (It was back ion the 90s for the ADF).

 

The practice though is that the monarchs are figureheads and I would argue the governor general has more real power in Australia than the monarch has over the UK.

 

But, the military actually has the power, because if they decide to go rogue, good luck to anyone stopping them.  Just look at all the military coups and the dictators that have been put in and ousted by them.

 

What saves countries like the UK, Australia, Canada, and the like going rogue? Two things; First a genuine belief in democracy and freedoms (yes, both are under attack); and 2) a respect for the rule of law. There is also a respct for free speech but consuequences for a its abuse. We can see the USA departing from these principles far more than others, and they are for further down the line of civil war than others.