Sleep Apnia

[octave]

Much better to go in an ambulance rather than drive. The two main reasons are that your car does not have a defibrillator or someone trained in resuscitation and also your car does not carry clot-busting drugs that can save or reduce damage to your heart.

 

Even if the ambulance is ramped at the hospital you are with people trained to resuscitate and the resources needed to treat a heart attack

[spacesailor]

Didn't work for my neighbour !.

Or that person who died while " ramped " .

spacesailor

[octave]

2 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Didn't work for my neighbour !.

Or that person who died while " ramped " .

spacesailor

And possibly would have died in a hospital.   If you drive in it does not necessarily mean you would be seen any sooner.  The first minutes after a heart attack are critical in saving your life but just as importantly saving heart tissue.   If you drove someone to hospital and they went into cardiac arrest could you perform CPR?  You certainly could not defibrillate or do anything to clear the blockage.  Treatment for a heart-attack commences as soon the ambulance is on the scene.    But you do what ever you think is best.

[nomadpete]

4 hours ago, octave said:

Much better to go in an ambulance rather than drive. The two main reasons are that your car does not have a defibrillator or someone trained in resuscitation and also your car does not carry clot-busting drugs that can save or reduce damage to your heart.

 

Even if the ambulance is ramped at the hospital you are with people trained to resuscitate and the resources needed to treat a heart attack

Once again Octave you are speaking as an idealist.

 

Of course an ambulance offers better initial care. If one is available. In my case, after I had been lying on the floor in agony for 3 hours, the ambulance despatchers phoned my wife and asked her if she didn’t  mind driving me into the hospital.

The real world us not as simple as you seem to think it is.

Edited May 29 by nomadpete

[octave]

1 minute ago, nomadpete said:

Once again OME you are speaking as an idealist.

 

I am not OME!!!!!

2 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Of course an ambulance offers better initial care. If one is available. In my case, after I had been lying on the floor in agony for 3 hours, the ambulance despatchers phoned my wife and asked her if she didn’t  mind driving me into the hospital.

The real world us not as simple as you seem to think it is.

 

Of course, if an ambulance is not available in a reasonable time then you do whatever you can.  My point is there are many people who don't even call an ambulance for whatever reason, perhaps they don't want to define it as an emergency or don't think they can afford it.  The point is time is critical not just in terms of getting to the hospital but in terms of being with someone who can resuscitate or defibrillate.  I agree that there is a judgment call to be made here. The delays that we hear about on the news do not apply to every call-out, 

 

The ambulance is not merely transport, it has crucial equipment and people trained in resuscitation  Of course it is everybody's right to make the call as to how to get to hospital in the case of a suspected heart attack. The correct answer can only be discerned with hindsight.   Ventricular Fibrillation is often the thing that kills people suffering a heart attack.  

 

I would much rather be in a ramped ambulance than someone's car. At least in the ambulance, there is more that can be done.    I do have some real-world experience of this.  

[nomadpete]

8 minutes ago, octave said:

am not OME!!!!!

Sorry, I  fixed that before you arced up.

[octave]

1 minute ago, nomadpete said:

Sorry, I  fixed that before you arced up.

Well I didn't mind but OME might😁

[nomadpete]

10 minutes ago, octave said:

My point is there are many people who don't even call an ambulance for whatever reason,

I don't think that scenario was being debated.

[nomadpete]

12 minutes ago, octave said:

I do have some real-world experience of this.  

As do I.  Hence my comment.

[octave]

7 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Don't call an Ambulance. 

I was responding to the above post which I beleive to be a bad rule of thumb

[nomadpete]

12 minutes ago, octave said:

I was responding to the above post which I beleive to be a bad rule of thumb

Your rule of thumb falls foul of specifics. As with most generalisations, it is flawed.

In many locations (as in my case) it was more expeditious  to get in the car and have someone - anyone - drive one directly to the hospital. In my case I  would have had expert paramedical care 3 hours faster for my life threatening event.

Obvoiusly not applicable to every case. But it is increasingly true of many cases.

Nowadays, one cannot call 000 and blindly expect expert care to rapidly arrive on one's doorstep. In every case one must ask probing questions such as "when can I  expect an ambo?", before considering home delivery to hospital.

 

[red750]

When you call 000, can you ask for an emergency paramedic who carries a portable defibrulator to come and render assistance on site until an ambulance can be summoned?

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, octave said:

Well I didn't mind but OME might😁

Exodus 20:7 - “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord, your OME, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

[facthunter]

There's NO logic in advising to NOT call an ambulance. The Paramedics have all that stuff in the ambulance and they work in you as soon as you are in it.. Time is precious with strokes in particular. . . You brain damages itself if something is not done to prevent it happening.. Drive your car if you wish but be in contact with the hospital. (someone with you of course. . You'd be crazy  to just start  driving around hoping they can see you and as  said even if you are ramped you are getting attention...  Nev

[nomadpete]

Agree with most, Nev. Except the ramped bit. I have been  parked in the hallway awaiting admission through ER (along with numbers of others). The rules here seem to be that the ambos are still responsible for me until the hospital staff oficially take responsibility.

There were staff around but got no particular attention until they wheeled me into the hospital emergency ward.

[old man emu]

16 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

The rules here seem to be that the ambos are still responsible for me until the hospital staff oficially take responsibility.

That is correct. It even applies, or did apply, to the Police bringing in a mentally ill person. Had to sit with the person until the hospital was able to take over.

 

What used to get me was watching the hospital staff walking about, apparently not attending to anyone. I suppose my ideas were biased by watching war movies and M*A*S*H where the medics were rushing from patient to patient and always doing something. Not being familiar with A&E practice, I can't say that the staff were doing nothing. However, I suppose it would ease the minds of both patients and ambos if staff would come by and update on wait time. At least when you get stuck on the phone to CentreLink, they give you estimate of the waiting time.

 

I also wonder what the protocol is if there are a few teams of ambos babysitting patients and a major incident occurs away from the hospital and it's "all hands on deck". Do the ambos pull up stumps and answer the call?

 

But at the same time, let's be fair to the hospital staff - understaffed and overworked. You can really see the difference in stress levels between an A&E nurse and a nurse working on a ward where people go after admission.

[octave]

24 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

The rules here seem to be that the ambos are still responsible for me until the hospital staff oficially take responsibility.

 

 For a heart attack, the ambulance has resuscitation gear and a defibrillator as well as an adrenaline shot on standby in case the worst happens.  As well as that you will be getting a constant ECG which will be a great help to the cardiologist.

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

Agree with most, Nev. Except the ramped bit. I have been  parked in the hallway awaiting admission through ER (along with numbers of others). The rules here seem to be that the ambos are still responsible for me until the hospital staff oficially take responsibility.

There were staff around but got no particular attention until they wheeled me into the hospital emergency ward.

 

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

That is correct. It even applies, or did apply, to the Police bringing in a mentally ill person. Had to sit with the person until the hospital was able to take over.

I saw both those situations when I was in ER almost two weeks ago. Lots of ambos in the reception area and the odd one wandering through the emergency ward. And same here, in the reception area I was babysat by the ambos for a short time until an emergency doctor saw me. My condition was worsening and serious enough to be wheeled into the ward after only a short wait as the ward had the gear to stabilise things.

 

I also saw a police officer sitting on a chair and being responsible for keeping an eye on a patient. I don't think it was a mental illness case; I got the impression the patient was under arrest for something.

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

I also wonder what the protocol is if there are a few teams of ambos babysitting patients and a major incident occurs away from the hospital and it's "all hands on deck". Do the ambos pull up stumps and answer the call?

That was the reason why (on a different trip to hospital), there were NO

 

ambulances available in the greater Hobart district for about four hours.

 

I do not trust the statistics that are spruiked by hospital management and state health departments. Their kpi's rely on those stats, there are vested interests involved in interpreting statistics.

 

1 hour ago, octave said:

 

 For a heart attack, the ambulance has resuscitation gear and a defibrillator as well as an adrenaline shot on standby in case the worst happens.  As well as that you will be getting a constant ECG which will be a great help to the cardiologist.

Totally agree. Whilst you are in the ambulance with a paramedic by your side. And I am in awe of the professionalism and empathy of the ambos. However, several times I was parked in the hallway between the ambulance and the hospital, none of that equipment or staff was with me. And the ambos from several ambulances were somewhere within earshot (no call button until you are admitted). They were all happily chatting and drinking coffee. It was up to me to call out if I felt I needed help. From time to time somebody came by and asked 'How are you doing?'  That was all. For over an hour those ambulances were unavailable. And those guests were not yet patients under the care of the A&E nurses or doctors.

 

I don't doubt that if my ECG was bad, somebody would have prioitised my care. It was a suspected stroke - but no haste to verify.

 

The system really needs improvement. But my first act will always be a 000 call for an ambulance.

 

It's no surprise that hospitals are paying out millions in compensation.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks for the comments about the mri. My latest specialist was amazed that I had not been given one already.

[red750]

A little off track, this goes back 10 years to when I had the bladder cancer. I suffered urinary retention which caused considerable pain, needing to pee but being unable to. My local doctor orderd an ambulance to take me to Box Hill Hospital. On arrival, I spent a short while in triage with the pain level building, before being wheeled into an examination cubicle in the ER Dept. Explaining my situation, they said "We'll get you some morphine to numb the pain." It seemed like it took nearly half an hour to get the morphine and I was just about climbing the wall. I guess they had to find a doctor who could authorise administering the drug. And this was long before Covid. There are always lengthy delays when attending hospital.

 

More recently, when I had convulsions which were later diagnosed as being related to a herniated bowel, I had been driven to the emergency department of Knox Private Hospital in Wantirna, and sat in the waiting room for a good half hour before even being seen at the triage counter - and I was one of only three people waiting.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree with nev that the ambulance is the better option.

My experience is that you will get a lot faster by private car, but they won't let you in when you get there!

Yes, the ambulance is very expensive, so I reckon that yo need to think things through beforehand.

Edited May 30 by Bruce Tuncks

[nomadpete]

1 minute ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

 

My experience is that you will get a lot faster by private car, but they won't let you in when you get there!

 

A very important point.

 

An ambo will get you into the hospital.

 

And being ignored whilst ramped is still far better than sitting in a waiting room on one of their terribly uncomfortable chairs.

[facthunter]

An experience in ER at a public hospital is like something between Bedlam and Hell on earth. You get ALL types turning up there. screaming and swearing freaked out on drugs. Plavix made me almost impossible to operate on for a septic gall bladder. . I spent 5 days with no contact allowed with anyone  during the height of covid. I had about 30% chance of surviving. I was hallucinating and had whacko's all around me as patients. How the Nurses coped with it is beyond me. Absolute worst experience in my life.  Nev

[spacesailor]

A trick for expediting the triage. 

Lay down on fhe floor .

triage will ask you to " sit " , , if you can't situp  you will be seen ! .

 

My neighbour had full resuscitation,  & was breathing Independently, 

while waiting the seemingly Long time for transport for a 7 minute trip .

If the above had been successful,  she should have survived her embolism/ brain haemorrhage  .

spacesailor

 

Edited May 30 by spacesailor