VERY OFF TOPIC. . . Immigration in Europe. .

[Gnarly Gnu]

I'm wondering just how long it will take for the culturally ingrained antisemitism of Western Europeans to kick in and for some retaliatory attacks to be made by Caucasian radicals.

Pretty sure you're goofing about this right?

 

 

[old man emu]

Unfortunately I'm not goofing around. As a comment, I think it is fair.

 

Just got a heap of emails from Pommy Phil. He's going off a treat. Apparently, the BBC has clamped down on reporting the events in Paris. Phil claims that it's appeasement gone mad.

 

OME

 

 

[kaz3g]

Phil, you have my sympathy. I would like to see Australia become far more selective on just who got citizenship but even then it is clear that a small percentage of Islamic youths will follow the Koran, especially if they go to taxpayer-funded religious schools.My advice is to blame your local polly. Even if they are in opposition, they have a lot of power.

Hi Bruce

 

The Koran isn't the problem, it's those relatively few people who propound a perverted version of its teachings to achieve their own twisted ends.

 

Rather like the Catholic Church during the Inquisition or the Reformists who made Salem a well known corner of the Earth.

 

I have seen the world stand back and watch while various despots held power by force of violence in places like Cambodia, Somalia, the Sudan, Congo, Ruwanda and Iraq...at least until gold, diamonds or oil supplies were threatened.

 

And I seem to remember a quote somewhere about "good men doing nothing".

 

I don't know what the answer to terrorism based on a perverted faith belief is. Personally, I think the players are generally misguided weak individuals and the planners behind them psychopathic murderers.

 

I'm glad we are an island but I feel damned uncomfortable about our treatment of refugees and our current warehousing of them off-shore.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

Not up here they don't Bruce. . .anyway,. .they don't want to rock the common purpose boat it seems.

Your comment on a small percentage of Islamic youths following the Book, is not what we have seen here. Most young lads of that faith do not appear to have a mind of their own. At my favourite Balti palace, I was having a banter with the waiters, ( I've been using the place for 25 years , so I guess you could call me a regular customer ! ) It was just prior to the last General Election, I said jokingly, "OK then . . .who are you going to vote for at the election then ? " All three of the waiters ( all obviously over 18 years of age ) said that they had "No Idea" . . they said that they would ask at their mosque who was the best candidate to vote for. . . . Free thinkers all by the look. And bear in mind these chaps were born and educated in the UK.

 

Perhaps this is an isolated thing,. . . I dunno. . .

I dunno either, Phil, but I well remember the parish priest standing in the pulpit and telling us all to vote DLP as did our Archbishop at the time.

 

I know many churchgoers sent money for the IRA who were perhaps a tad terrifying in the Troubles, too.

 

And just a thought but, as one who grew up with nuns in black with their faces half covered, I chuckle a little at the discomfort young Catholic lads now have with someone in a hijab.

 

Times change. The IRA is now a legal entity, nuns now dress in mufti, priests no longer demand particular political allegiance and the last place of worship I entered was a Sikh temple where the religion espouses notions of equality of all and care of the poorest without regard to colour, race or creed. Not a bad approach to relations with your fellow man, I thought.

 

Kaz

 

 

[rgmwa]

I dunno either, Phil, but I well remember the parish priest standing in the pulpit and telling us all to vote DLP as did our Archbishop at the time.

Yes, I can remember that too, although in my case it was our primary school nuns telling us to tell our parents to vote DLP because they would look after the Catholics. We didn't even know what voting was, much less who/what the DLP were.

 

And just a thought but, as one who grew up with nuns in black with their faces half covered, I chuckle a little at the discomfort young Catholic lads now have with someone in a hijab.

Some of the nuns would have looked better if they'd covered up the other half of their faces too, but to be fair, some of them were OK.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Marty_d]

Yes, I can remember that too, although in my case it was our primary school nuns telling us to tell our parents to vote DLP because they would look after the Catholics. We didn't even know what voting was, much less who/what the DLP were.

 

 

Some of the nuns would have looked better if they'd covered up the other half of their faces too, but to be fair, some of them were OK.

 

rgmwa

Read an autobiography called "God's Callgirl"... it'll give you a different perspective of some nuns...

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

The Koran isn't the problem, it's those relatively few people who propound a perverted version of its teachings to achieve their own twisted ends.

Please Kaz get educated on this before you state such PC nonsense. Read the Koran. Read what the top Islamic scholars say about jihad and the Koran. Learn about Sayyid Qtub from the Moslem Brotherhood (who many regard as the father of Jihad) and his court case. These violent actions are in no way a perversion of the Koran, it is very clear in its teachings in this area and these people are true Koran believers and faithful followers of their 'prophet' Mohammad.

 

 

[Spooks]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/the-future-of-terrorism-what-al-qaida-really-wants-a-369448.html

 

Article was wrote ten years ago. Bloody terrifying.

 

 

[Bruce]

Growing up in the 1950's we sure had some of the older generation who were anti-Catholic. Most of us kids thought it (anti-Catholicism) was plain stupid.

 

I mainly remember feeling sympathy for the Catholic kids on account of this particular nun who often whipped them with a length of electric flex. In my whole life, some of my best mates were and are Catholics.

 

I hope you are right Kaz about how this anti-Islam thing will follow the same path, but I reckon we are dealing with a different type of thing. The Koran is a coherent book and a percentage of the people who take it literally will act as instructed. The Bible is a mixture of contradictory separate parts and so it is not as persuasive as an incitement manual.

 

In the meantime Japan has no problems on account of not even allowing Moslems in on work visas, let alone as immigrants.

 

 

[Marty_d]

You could say the same about the bible, Gnu. Kill witches. Kill homosexuals. Kill children. Sleep with your daughters. Sacrifice your son. A literal reading of any of these books is not recommended for the good of the individual or society as a whole.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Except that the majority of Christian sects including the Catholics and Methodists/Presbyterians/lutherans/etc say the Old testament is superseded by the New, and is not needed to be followed literally as the Jews do.

 

And the new is far more turn the other cheek than it is burn the fornicators.

 

Meanwhile the Koran is ALL to be followed by a good muslim, including the bits about the only non-muslim being a slave to a muslim or dead.

 

The closest thing to a New Testament for Muslims is the Bahai religion, which grew out of a splinter from the main Islamic religion by a muslim prophet who said the Koran was obsolete and a new way was needed, much the way Islam grew out of a Christian prophet who thought Christianity needed a change.

 

Needless to say, strict Islamics in the Wahabi mould like killing Bahai even better than they like killing Christians.

 

The first Moslems were mainly Monophysite Christians in the near east and north africa, the dominant christian dogma of the timewas Dyophysite. The view that Christ was merely a prophet tied in nicely with their view of Christ having a single nature, in contrast to the dominant view of Christ having both a divine nature and a human nature in one soul.

 

Given the theological debate of the time involved stoning those of opposing views, or bashing their heads in with staves in street fights, it must have been rather a relief to follow a schismatic preacher into the wilderness. Followed by several generations of converting the tribes and their descendants coming back leading armies which got as far as most of spain and deep into the transylvanian mountains.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Please Kaz get educated on this before you state such PC nonsense. Read the Koran. Read what the top Islamic scholars say about jihad and the Koran. Learn about Sayyid Qtub from the Moslem Brotherhood (who many regard as the father of Jihad) and his court case. These violent actions are in no way a perversion of the Koran, it is very clear in its teachings in this area and these people are true Koran believers and faithful followers of their 'prophet' Mohammad.

I'm reasonably educated, GG and I have also read the Bible, including the Old Testament. I seem to recall you quoting from it to justify your prejudices in a post sometime back.

 

Perhaps YOU should first learn what jihad is and is not. Try reading what the Supreme Islamic Council has to say and even try talking to an ordinary Muslim.

 

http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/legal-rulings/5-jihad-a-misunderstood-concept-from-islam.html?start=9

 

What do you know about Muslim people? Have you ever sat down and had a meal with a Muslim family?

 

I live in a relatively small rural community of around 60,000 people some of whom are the oldest and newest of Australians.

 

Migrant origins include England, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Lebanon, Turkey, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Congo and Sierra Leone to name a few. We have 5 mosques and a Sikh temple as well as Christian Churches of many denominations. Our recently arrived African community is a mixture of Christian and Muslim but they are all given help and support by the Lutheran church here with the benefit of a substantial philanthropic donation from it's congregation. The Uniting Church and others similarly work closely with them to help them integrate into the community.

 

I have a school bus goes down my street each school morning. sometimes the driver is a woman in a hijab and other times it's a heavily bearded guy in a turban. We have a great selection restaurants and cuisine reflective of our diversity. In a couple weeks, there will be a three-way cricket match here: local Victoria Police Members, Rumbalara Aboriginal Sports Club, and the Muslim community. The latter is also supplying the food for the day. I'm looking forward to it.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

Growing up in the 1950's we sure had some of the older generation who were anti-Catholic. Most of us kids thought it (anti-Catholicism) was plain stupid.I mainly remember feeling sympathy for the Catholic kids on account of this particular nun who often whipped them with a length of electric flex. In my whole life, some of my best mates were and are Catholics.

 

I hope you are right Kaz about how this anti-Islam thing will follow the same path, but I reckon we are dealing with a different type of thing. The Koran is a coherent book and a percentage of the people who take it literally will act as instructed. The Bible is a mixture of contradictory separate parts and so it is not as persuasive as an incitement manual.

 

In the meantime Japan has no problems on account of not even allowing Moslems in on work visas, let alone as immigrants.

Hi Bruce

 

I sincerely hope so, too and I think it will depend to some extent at least on how we whose origins here are a bit older treat those who come now.

 

I was 8 years old when my old mum came home from shopping quite incredulous telling me that Harry and Laurie had sold their green grocer shop....to Italians! What's more they were Southern Italians and the women had hairy lips! We were a totally Anglo community up until then. Years later mum told me how delightful and polite the Biviano family was.

 

It's not just Muslims that are unable to migrate to Japan. My youngest son married a Japanes girl 12 years ago and has 2 beautiful children with her. He is fluent in Japanese and worked there in Tokyo until they moved to Singapore a few years ago. They were heading back to Tokyo for holidays recently and he had to renew his visitors visa. The kids are Australian citizens thank goodness.

 

Sometimes I pine for the Chips Rafferty types, the Australia of the 40s and 50s, but mostly I just marvel at the diversity of cultures, clothes and cuisines that is my home.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Unfortunately I'm not goofing around. As a comment, I think it is fair.

Just got a heap of emails from Pommy Phil. He's going off a treat. Apparently, the BBC has clamped down on reporting the events in Paris. Phil claims that it's appeasement gone mad.

 

OME

Sorry about that mate. . . .I've just checked the "sent" and I didn't realise I'd got your email bunged into that group of ne'er do wells with whom I regularly communicate. . .

 

The BBC were the LAST to grudgingly admit that this event was NOT "NTDWI " ( Nothing to do with Islam ) calling them "Individuals with guns and bombs " and since all the other news outlets had done so, they were finally forced to admit it. . . I have friends who could well have been at that rock concert venue, where there was an Amercian rock band playing,. . .and I've heard nothing from them so far, but since Hollande declared a state of emergency in the early hours, the place is in lockdown with armed police and soldiers all over the city.

 

Very sad,. . .and I can't see matters improving unless they and the Germans get a grip on the massive amount of incoming migrants, some of whom will almost certainly be returning jihadists.

 

What a wonderful world we live in. . . . .

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Islam has been effective in reaching out to vast numbers of poor middle eastern kids in a way that Christianity hasn't done since Roman times. You can't bomb an idea so what can the west really do? Give these kids the pathway to a decent job, a nice house and a happy family. But that's not how capitalism works, you have to have a large pool of idle labor to keep wages low and demand high.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Kaz I share your pride in our increasingly diverse national community, but I've come to the painful realisation that letting large numbers of Moslems into our country was a mistake. Pretty much every ethnic group manages to integrate into our national community but significant numbers of second or third generation Islamic youth have become a serious threat to our safety.

 

A few year ago a Frenchmen visted Australia to give his perspective on the problems besetting his country. He warned that once Moslems exceed about 5% of the population we have passed the point of no return. He was dismissed by people like me as a racist bigot, but he was right. (Islam will continue to expand in this country due to a higher birth rate, immigration and that wonderful mechanism which makes leaving the religion a death sentence.

 

I have clashed with GG on occasions, but find myself moving closer to his position on this issue.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I'm reasonably educated, GG and I have also read the Bible, including the Old Testament.

Oh I'm sure you are more than reasonably educated, just not on the faith of Islam.

 

Perhaps YOU should first learn what jihad is and is not.

I am painfully well aware of what jihad is and isn't, having read the Koran, several Hadith, and many articles by Moslem leaders and teachers. Actually this was shocking and humbling for me as I realised that if I believed this book I would be out there doing exactly what those terrorists are doing; I am now able to understand their motivation. Not claiming to be an expert at all but I've picked up quite a bit & would be happy to discuss Islamic doctrine with you.

 

Try reading what the Supreme Islamic Council has to say and even try talking to an ordinary Muslim. What do you know about Muslim people? Have you ever sat down and had a meal with a Muslim family?

Absolutely, I know several and my family worked in Saudi Arabia for many years. I've eaten and talked with Iranian, Egyptian, Turkish, Moroccan and Afghan Moslems.

 

I live in a relatively small rural community of around 60,000 people some of whom are the oldest and newest of Australians.....

Good for you, way to miss the point though. Look you and I both wish it wasn't so but covering our eyes and ears won't make the problem go away. Many bad Moslems (i.e. non Koran following) are indeed very nice, hospitable people. But all good Moslems (faithful followers of the Koran) are dreadful people. It is these, the faithful followers of Mohammad and his Koran that set about their violent work today in Paris. What we are seeing is Islams reformation, a return to the true teachings of the Koran.

 

 

[Marty_d]

The reaction to atrocities such as the one happening in Paris is visceral and immediate. It's very tempting to see it in black and white.

 

You know my views on religion. It's all bullsh*t, whether it be christianity, islam, buddhism, hindu, or the church of bloody scientology. However it's mostly harmless BS and even beneficial to some folks if it helps them through the day.

 

IS, who most likely are the flea-bitten camel shaggers who carried out this particular piece of buggery, are widely detested by mainstream muslims and pretty much all non-muslims, excluding only those lonely, pathetic and needy pieces of human flotsam that are drawn to their abhorrent cause by the lack of anything fulfilling in their lives.

 

It's not their religion that's the problem. That's like saying that the Nazis were German so no German can ever be trusted again. It's the cynical use of that religion by the leadership of IS and all the other terrorist groups.

 

GG, about 2.2% of the Australian population are muslims - about half a million people. In France it's anywhere from 5-10%, which is between 3.3 and 6.6 MILLION. I think it's a bit disingenuous to tar them all with the same brush based on the book they happen to follow. Bit like saying all christians must be paedophiles based on what some of the priesthood gets up to.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

BBC stil in denial. . . .calling the terrorists "Militant French Migrants. . ." you couldn't make this stuff up.

 

Ho hum,. . .just another day at Beeboid central I guess. . . . at 0640 GMT today, absolutely nothing on the BBC web pages. . . .yet they had a BBC reporter near the scene when it kicked off last night. . . ?

 

Earlier yesterday they were bemoaning the "Assasination" of that nice Jihadi John the beheading expert. . . . . handwringing bedwetters the lot of them.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

France24 ( one of those news sites which actually tells things as they are, without bbc spin ) have just reported that one of the ( shot dead ) muslim shooters at the theatre massacre last night was fingerprinted and identified as a "French National" . . .ie, the enemy within. So that's allright then ( says the BBC,. . .thank god it wasn't a new migrant / refugeeeee. . . . .! )

 

BBC are spinning the yarn that if the Americans hadn't nobbled Mohammed Emwazi ( Jihadi John, the home grown Londoner - what a lovely man he was, such a nice, beautiful man. . . loved his family and his football,. . .was studying for a professional career. . . . .blah blah blah. . .) then the Paris attack would not have taken place ?

 

That operation was carried out with surgical military precision, and the French intelligence services had no warning about it. . .this isn't the sort of operation which could possibly have been suddenly decided upon in the few hours between the Reaper drone attack in Raqqa and last night at half past eight pm. . . but no,. . .the Beeboids have been in Super Vomit mode all day today, with loads of handwringers being interviewed telling the plebs that it's all our fault, and the muslims are deliberately kept in poverty in France, and that is the real cause. . . .

 

I've met quite a few English families who are just about surviving on the breadline too. . .the glaring difference is that they don't appear to obtain automatic weapons and explosives and then go out and shoot, and / or blow up innocent people going about their daily lives, just to show how racked off they are with their lot. . . .

 

By far and away the worst offenders in this madness as far as I can see is / are the Political elite. . .( totally insulated ) and the Mainstream Media themselves, in peddling all this multi-culti "integration" bullcrap,. and shouting down as racist anyone and everyone who can see for themselves that it isn't going to happen. Judeo Christian based cultured and Islam are mutually at opposite ends of the spectrum, JCs are exterminated or intimidated into leaving muslim lands in several countries. . . . not very integrationist is it ?

 

I'm waiting to hear that some loonies have gone berserk with automatic weapons amongst the Christmas shoppers in London. . . . I PRAY TO WHATEVER GOD MAY BE OUT THERE that this does not happen,. . .but I believe that it's only a matter of time. . . . we already have loads of extremists parading around the place spitting bile at everything western in this country. . . and the police do absolutely diddly squat about them or their message,. . .If a non-muslim did this, their feet wouldnt touch and they'd end up in the clink for a hate-crime. . . .

 

 

[Spooks]

Islam has been effective in reaching out to vast numbers of poor middle eastern kids in a way that Christianity hasn't done since Roman times. You can't bomb an idea so what can the west really do? Give these kids the pathway to a decent job, a nice house and a happy family. But that's not how capitalism works, you have to have a large pool of idle labor to keep wages low and demand high.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_International_Airport_attack

 

The lovable rogues who tried to attack Glasgow airport had decent careers. One was a doctor with the NHS and the other an engineer.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_International_Airport_attack

The lovable rogues who tried to attack Glasgow airport had decent careers. One was a doctor with the NHS and the other an engineer.

 

Yeah,. . .fortunately, no matter how well educated those two were. . . they didn't know much about things that go bang,. . nor how to make them work. . .so only ended up incinerating themselves up and damaging the front door of a departure lounge,. . .and wrecking a perfectly good Toyota Ute. . . .

 

They,. . .along with many others, are brainwashed by being brought up and forced to read a certain book,. . . . a couple of quotes from which are presented hereunder for your eddification. . . .

 

For those of you who don't have a bedside copy of the Holy Qu'ran handy, a few interesting quotes:. . . . .

 

“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Qur’an 2:191

 

 

 

 

 

“Make war on the infidels living in your neighbourhood.”

 

Qur’an 9:123

 

 

 

 

 

“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you

 

catch them.” Qur’an 9:5

 

If anyone has a copy and can find any pleasant verses which say that Pommies and Aussies are great, and should be omitted from the above fate,. . . .let me know.

 

Not a nice FRIENDLY publication by the look of it,. . .I think I'd rather read, The life and loves of Frank Harris,. . . .

 

maybe, Lady Chatterley's Lover,. . .or even. . .Stick and Rudder. . . .

 

This book is the absolute word of their "God". . .no argument or interpretation is permitted. This is why the West is having so much difficulty integrating with muslims, as far as I can see. . . .I could be wrong. . . . .

 

 

[pmccarthy]

It will come down to the same solution as in every previous war.... Vigorously attack the country where the threat comes from and carpet bomb the civil population without regard to who are extremists and who are not, while rounding up anyone in your own country and putting them behind barbed wire for the duration.

 

This approach turned the Germans and the Japanese, for example, into nice people. Sadly, nothing else works.

 

 

[old man emu]

1. Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,

 

with the cross of Jesus going on before.

 

Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;

 

forward into battle see his banners go!

 

Refrain:

 

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,

 

with the cross of Jesus going on before.

 

2. At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;

 

on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!

 

Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;

 

brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

 

(Refrain)

 

3. Like a mighty army moves the church of God;

 

brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.

 

We are not divided, all one body we,

 

one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

 

(Refrain)

 

4. Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,

 

but the church of Jesus constant will remain.

 

Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail;

 

we have Christ's own promise, and that cannot fail.

 

(Refrain)

 

5. Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,

 

blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.

 

Glory, laud, and honor unto Christ the King,

 

this through countless ages men and angels sing.

 

Comment:

 

Notice how the Christian enemy is a spiritual "being", not other humans.

 

OME

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Lets hope that England does the right thing and leaves the EU.