VERY OFF TOPIC. . . Immigration in Europe. .

[M61A1]

IS can't be stopped by bombs though, yesterday they called a bomb hoax on 2 air france airliners, so today everyone thinks twice about booking with air france. MetroJet was looking marginal prior to the bombing, so it might fold. Economic warfare is hard to win

Agreed, ISIS will not be stopped by bombs, they certainly wont be stopped by talking about it or posting pictures on social media.

 

Regardless of who started it, it needs to be stopped in it's tracks.

 

Troops on the ground will be needed, and it will need to be thoroughly destroyed. World leaders need to stop pandering and get serious.

 

Might like to ask yourself how your life might change for the better under IS?

 

 

[facthunter]

I couldn't imagine anything worse than living under a religious dictatorship. (Theocracy) where totally unellected Mullah's have the real POWER. and they rule how you think. Ie no freedom.. I feel sorry for the Iranians who are quite well educated and probably fell into something not quite what they wanted, after getting rid of the SHAH.

 

The west has prostituted democracy and America only recognises it when It produces what THEY want.

 

IS have no legitimate claim to power as they rule by force, high taxing, confiscation and selective Justice and genocide. By any measure the rest of the world could not recognise them as a legitimate government. They have a few things going for them though. Their calyph is a direct descendant of Mohammed. and a lot of what they are doing is interpreted as fulfilling prophesy and they blame the west for everything. How different is this from Bush Jr 's Axis of EVIL? We are fast losing our freedoms here under our current AG. Many Moslems don't value freedom or agree with democracy. Too unpredictable and no control of outcome.The WEST values freedom of speech and privacy and individual rights, but still has to be watchful to preserve these things as their governments like to take them away to remain in power.Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

And the problem with terrorism is that it drives the voters in the West, like sheep, to right-wing parties who promise to protect them. We give up our freedoms for a temporary feeling of safety, and we never even realise what we lose until it's too late. Funny thing about the extra rules and restrictions imposed during times of "war"... they're easy to install but somehow very hard to roll back.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Obama is right to resist sending more ground troops into this mess. Having western soldiers in the land of their prophet has been a colossal failure, stirring up enormous animosity and uniting factions against us. Time to use some intelligence. The Kurds have a history of more honour and tolerance than most in that region. They are the only ones making any headway against the IS cancer. They deserve more support.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Iraqi born Faisal Saeed Al Mutar has a funny fb post about this:

 

 

It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic terrorist not to have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you have explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the terrorists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility.

 

It's like a bad Monty Python sketch:

 

"We did this because our holy texts exhort us to to do it."

 

"No you didn't."

 

"Wait, what? Yes we did..."

 

"No, this has nothing to do with religion. You guys are just using religion as a front for social and geopolitical reasons."

 

"WHAT!? Did you even read our official statement? We give explicit Quranic justification. This is jihad, a holy crusade against pagans, blasphemers, and disbelievers."

 

"No, this is definitely not a Muslim thing. You guys are not true Muslims, and you defame a great religion by saying so."

 

"Huh!? Who are you to tell us we're not true Muslims!? Islam is literally at the core of everything we do, and we have implemented the truest most literal and honest interpretation of its founding texts. It is our very reason for being."

 

"Nope. We created you. We installed a social and economic system that alienates and disenfranchises you, and that's why you did this. We're sorry."

 

"What? Why are you apologizing? We just slaughtered you mercilessly in the streets. We targeted unwitting civilians - disenfranchisement doesn't even enter into it!"

 

"Listen, it's our fault. We don't blame you for feeling unwelcome and lashing out."

 

"Seriously, stop taking credit for this! We worked really hard to pull this off, and we're not going to let you take it away from us."

 

"No, we nourished your extremism. We accept full blame."

 

"How many people do we have to kill around here to finally get our message across?"

The US President announced (at a military base!) that:

 

1. "climate change poses a serious threat to global security"

 

2. "an immediate risk to US national security"

 

3. "this [climate change threat] will have an impact how our [i.e the US] military defends our country [the USA]".

 

This is how the Arab media sees Obama's perceived climate change threat to global security:

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Oh my are you serious? The Atheist head count is way above the Moslems Jihad one - check Stalin, Castro, Che, Mao, Pol Pot etc.

Rather than just ignorantly reposting something you read somewhere, you really should research what you post first because you now look like a goose. Stalin trained as a Priest and Che, Castro were Catholics - just for starters. Mind you it's a good analogy of someone who reads the bible and just instantly believes what he reads.

 

The interesting thing about these murderers, they all have a similar ideal, they were all poverty stricken while growing up and were affected by seeing the abysmal way that the rich and wealthy "church going, god fearing" elite treated the masses - oh the irony.

 

Atheist countries are the most dangerous, miserable and repressive on the planet.

Oh this again, go live in one of those countries sometime.

 

As in Kim Jong-un now?

North Korean dictators are not evil because they're atheistic. They're evil because they're ruthless powermongers who have no respect for their people.

Never been there but I used to read this crap about China too. I will get to NK in due time, almost went this year, will have a look and decide for myself rather than rally to the whims of the USA.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

On topic, someone earlier referred to containment; at this point it seems to be the only practical way forward. Open borders has been an utter failure.

I did not say "containment", I said segregation, as in everybody simply being in their countries minding their own business as was previously. If America started minding it's own business and stopped being Israel's lacky, well that would be a good start.

 

I have no problems with Moslems, the problems arise from false and forced integration of different cultures that blatantly doesn't work in some cases.

 

The integration of Italians and Greeks has been fantastic for Australian culture, other cultures that isolate themselves and demand special treatment, not so much.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I will get to NK in due time, almost went this year, will have a look and decide for myself rather than rally to the whims of the USA.

That sort of country may well appeal to you, especially as you seem to come across as disliking democratic countries. I have a good friend who was in prison there, a somewhat different perspective to what you would enjoy as a tourist.

 

The integration of Italians and Greeks has been fantastic for Australian culture, other cultures that isolate themselves and demand special treatment, not so much.

This is true as they have the same culture. But other quite different cultures have also fitted in, just need a desire to work and to integrate. The Moslem religion forbids integration and despises all non-Moslems who are only to be converted or subjugated, not befriended.

 

 

[eightyknots]

I did not say "containment", I said segregation, as in everybody simply being in their countries minding their own business as was previously. If America started minding it's own business and stopped being Israel's lacky, well that would be a good start.

I have no problems with Moslems, the problems arise from false and forced integration of different cultures that blatantly doesn't work in some cases.

 

The integration of Italians and Greeks has been fantastic for Australian culture, other cultures that isolate themselves and demand special treatment, not so much.

The reason why so many Italians, Dutch, Maltese, Greeks and Germans have fitted so well into Australian society is because they have the same Judeo-Christian background. There is an mutually understandable affinity which assists with integration.

 

 

[octave]

Lefties just love themselves some fresh straw man in the morning. Did it make one scrap of difference to the undeniable fact that atheist leaders have murdered tens of millions of people, more than any other religious group? Obviously not. Did Octave or yourself offer one scrap of conflicing evidence? No. But it has to be from Fairfax or NYT apparently or it never happened. Pathetic.

Octave: but never mind all that mass murder by atheists - look, shiny object over there!!

 

On topic, someone earlier referred to containment; at this point it seems to be the only practical way forward. Open borders has been an utter failure.

 

Gnu if you are suggesting that a leader who is an atheist and behaves in a hideous way tarnishes the idea of non belief then I am sure you must bear some responsibility for the wrongs committed by "Christians". Where do we start, the Crusades maybe? Witch burning maybe? Institutional abuse of children? The atrocities committed by Christopher Columbus maybe?

 

In terms of the horror of living in an atheist country, here is a list of the countries with the highest percentage of atheists:

 

• Japan: 4.3 percent
   
  
• East Germany: 7.8 percent
   
  
• Sweden: 10.2
   
  
• Czech Republic: 11.1
   
  
• Denmark: 13.0
   
  
• Norway: 14.8
   
  
• France: 15.5
   
  
• Great Britain: 16.8
   
  
• The Netherlands: 21.2
   
  
• Austria: 21.4
   
  

 

Most of these countries I could live in, by contrast the most religious nations...... well, not so much. (sorry for the crappy formatting)

 

Nicaragua97.672Romania96.963Malta96.824Guam96.695Micronesia96.656Honduras96.647Samoa96.608Paraguay96.309Guatemala96.1210Papua New Guinea95.8411Martinique95.8012Solomon Islands95.8013Tonga95.7614Peru95.4515Puerto Rico95.2816Haiti95.1217Saint Lucia95.0818Mexico95.0319US Virgin Islands94.9520Barbados94.9421Bahamas, The94.6522El Salvador94.6323Cape Verde Islands94.5624Ecuador94.4525Armenia94.43

 

 

[octave]

The reason why so many Italians, Dutch, Maltese, Greeks and Germans have fitted so well into Australian society is because they have the same Judeo-Christian background. There is an mutually understandable affinity which assists with integration.

I have been a musical instrument teacher for since 1990 and I can say without doubt that non christian cultures still integrate and in fact often excell. I have many Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian and Korean (and more) students and I have never thought that not having a Judeo Christian background was neither a barrier to achievement or impediment to integration.

 

 

[willedoo]

Oh my are you serious? The Atheist head count is way above the Moslems Jihad one - check Stalin, Castro, Che, Mao, Pol Pot etc. Atheist countries are the most dangerous, miserable and repressive on the planet. However within the framework of Atheism it is impossible to demonstrate that this mass killing is actually morally wrong behaviour. But this is for another thread so that's enough...

GG, I can see where where you are coming from with that analogy. But from my own point of view, I was always under the impression that Atheism was one of the side effects of Communism. The quoted Stalin, Castro, Che, Mao, Pol Pot, were responsible for a lot of deaths, but I always thought the deaths were a result of their interpretation of Communist doctrine first and foremost, rather than just exterminating people because they're Atheists. And to be sure, part of that interpretation of their doctrine would have led to Pol Pot exterminating people because they were devout Buddists, but I think Communist ideology in general drove him more than Atheism.

 

Stalin as an example. His famous pre war purges were driven by personal paranoia and just being a nasty revengeful p**ck. If a draftsman working for MiG didn't perform to standard, he was sent to a Gulag or executed because a physco dictator set too high a standard for his people. In WW2, he had perceived traitors executed for reasons of power and security, not religion or lack of it. The only connection of Atheism with Stalin's genocide was that he happened to be a Communist leader and also happened to be an Atheist, as hard line Communism dictates. He didn't have people executed because he was an Atheist.

 

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Worth the watch, explains a number of things about Paris ...

 

 

[Marty_d]

Lefties just love themselves some fresh straw man in the morning. Did it make one scrap of difference to the undeniable fact that atheist leaders have murdered tens of millions of people, more than any other religious group? Obviously not. Did Octave or yourself offer one scrap of conflicing evidence? No. But it has to be from Fairfax or NYT apparently or it never happened. Pathetic.

Octave: but never mind all that mass murder by atheists - look, shiny object over there!!

 

On topic, someone earlier referred to containment; at this point it seems to be the only practical way forward. Open borders has been an utter failure.

Oh, sorry GG, I missed your post! How rude of me.

 

I think you might be slightly mistaken. If you're referring to the usual suspects you neo-cons trot out - Stalin etc... then I'm a bit confused as to why you're conflating their alleged atheism with their mass-murdering habits. Instead, it could be because they're all men! That'd make more sense, then we can add believers like Hitler, and who was that bloke who murdered 200,000 civilians with 2 bombs? Oh yeah - Harry S. Truman!

 

 

[willedoo]

Worth the watch, explains a number of things about Paris ...

 

Yes, definitely worth watching in it's entirety. Not PC of course, but many valid points discussed.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Did it make one scrap of difference to the undeniable fact that atheist leaders......

Well Hitler for one example wasn't an atheist by any stretch, and he states that clearly in his own manifesto "Mein Kampf". But like the others, their actual politics, rather than their religion, was what led to the deaths of many people at their hands.

 

And if you can't tell the difference between politics and religion, well the whole argument is a moot point.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Yes, definitely worth watching in it's entirety. Not PC of course, but many valid points discussed.

that sort of endorsement is enough for me

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Let's not forget who the grand daddy of arming the Islamic freedom fighters was

 

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[winsor68]

Agreed, ISIS will not be stopped by bombs, they certainly wont be stopped by talking about it or posting pictures on social media.Regardless of who started it, it needs to be stopped in it's tracks.

 

Troops on the ground will be needed, and it will need to be thoroughly destroyed. World leaders need to stop pandering and get serious.

 

Might like to ask yourself how your life might change for the better under IS?

Just cut the funding for goodness sake... blah blah blah baloney bs rubbish talk is all I hear. We forget...someone/s is funding ISIS. Economic sanctions would be a good start. The religion is secondary to the financial aspect here.

 

 

[willedoo]

Let's not forget who the grand daddy of arming the Islamic freedom fighters was

Comes back to the old doctrine still in use today, 'My enemy's enemy is my friend'. Great foreign policy with a really bright future.

 

 

[willedoo]

Just cut the funding for goodness sake... blah blah blah baloney bs rubbish talk is all I hear. We forget...someone/s is funding ISIS. Economic sanctions would be a good start. The religion is secondary to the financial aspect here.

And that's the heart of the problem, ISIS is State funded in the opinion of many.

 

Where does the money come from? We're not just talking millions here, but billions. There are simplistic views abounding that they are selling oil to fund this BS. Well I've worked in the oil patch most of my life and this is absolute c**p in my opinion. Oil sales are just their pocket money. Look at the map and figure out how the oil can get out of the country in large enough quantities ( at $50/ barrel, not much above break even price) to fund their show. A few Toyotas or trucks sneaking across the border with barrels of oil might fund their smokes for a week.

 

So what's the alternative? Pump it through a pipeline where the middle man country can say 'Gee, I didn't notice that happening'. And the recipient country saying 'Gee, this oil is cheap, I wonder where it comes from?'.

 

Even occupation and taxing of the local population would not come anywhere near funding them. The most basic logic would tell us that sovereign governments are paying them. Well, if that theory is wrong, I'd be quite happy if anyone can tell me where the money is really coming from.

 

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Comes back to the old doctrine still in use today, 'My enemy's enemy is my friend'. Great foreign policy with a really bright future.

Beating the Russians, even with a little help, has done wonders for their confidence

 

 

[Marty_d]

r

 

Beating the Russians, even with a little help, has done wonders for their confidence

Ah, but now they've really p*ssed off Putin, who will probably stop attacking every other Syrian opposition group and actually attack ISIS for a change.

 

It may even improve relations between Russia and the west. Bit of an own goal if you ask me.

 

 

[eightyknots]

And that's the heart of the problem, ISIS is State funded in the opinion of many.

Where does the money come from? We're not just talking millions here, but billions. There are simplistic views abounding that they are selling oil to fund this BS. Well I've worked in the oil patch most of my life and this is absolute c**p in my opinion. Oil sales are just their pocket money. Look at the map and figure out how the oil can get out of the country in large enough quantities ( at $50/ barrel, not much above break even price) to fund their show. A few Toyotas or trucks sneaking across the border with barrels of oil might fund their smokes for a week.

 

So what's the alternative? Pump it through a pipeline where the middle man country can say 'Gee, I didn't notice that happening'. And the recipient country saying 'Gee, this oil is cheap, I wonder where it comes from?'.

 

Even occupation and taxing of the local population would not come anywhere near funding them. The most basic logic would tell us that sovereign governments are paying them. Well, if that theory is wrong, I'd be quite happy if anyone can tell me where the money is really coming from.

 

Cheers, Willie.

Islamic State funding, as I recall, comes from a number of areas:

 

1. Because some of the "state" is in a fertile region, there is a surplus of food produced; the excess is sold through Turkey for cash.

 

2. They have many small refineries and they can be moved at short notice. The oil is sold at about half price on the black market. Buyers are falling over themselves to get hold of this at this price. There is quite a long coast line and border with Turkey and that is where it disappears for cash.

 

3. They have robbed many of the Christians who lived in the IS controlled "state". This has raised quite a few dollars.

 

4. Artifacts. Many have been sold for large sums to private collectors.

 

5. When they took over parts of Iraq, IS raided all the banks and netted an estimated 2 billion dollars of US currency and Euros kept in those banks.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

A couple more "REFUGEEHADIS" on the march. . . coming to a place near you ( if you happen to reside somewhere in Europe that is. . .)

 

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The bloke on the right is the spittin' image of a Turkish taxi driver I know. . . .