Hypothetical

[pmccarthy]

A 17-year-old has just been granted bail after killing your sister while driving a stolen car. He has ten previous cases of car theft, assault and drug possession, bailed every time. What do you do?

Nothing - let the justice system deal with it.

Break both his legs with a baseball bat and say you will be back to kill him, while ensuring that you have left no evidence behind.

Shoot him from a distance, again being careful not to get caught.

Kill him in public as a statement and take your punishment.

[facthunter]

Do we want people to be able to take the LAW into their own hands and get  away with it? Nev

[spacesailor]

In France it's got a name .

I think " crime of passion " .

justifiably good law .

spacesailor

 

[onetrack]

It's certainly a very vexing problem, this youth crime problem - and one thing's for sure, the courts and justice system are way too soft on criminals.

But the reasons behind the crimes have to be examined and addressed before one can deal with it in a way that meets with general approval.

 

1. Many crims have some form of brain damage or are "on the spectrum", meaning they suffer from an inability to determine the consequences of their actions.

2. Much of the above brain damage/anti-social behaviour stems from poor parenting, alcohol abuse, drug abuse and general rebelliousness. More effort has to be put into addressing the root cause of these issues.

3. Many judges need to be made aware of the community desire to reduce the amount of bail handed out, and be made aware of the community desire for longer sentences, that are actually served.

 

Unfortunately, whilst capital punishment look like an immediately attractive option, murder is murder, and we generally agree that it's not acceptable to murder criminals for their crimes, horrendous as they often are.

[pmccarthy]

There is a distinction between "right and wrong", or what we all know is acceptable, and what "you" might do in those circumstances.

[facthunter]

You cannot do what you feel like doing in such matters. Lynch mob mentality where they are Apprehender, Judge, Jury and Executioner.  I doubt many would want to live there, unless  you de Boss Man  Nev.

Edited July 11 by facthunter

[onetrack]

We would go straight back to the Wild West of the early to mid 1800's if citizens and anyone arming themselves with a deadly weapon was allowed to kill at will.

In that era, life was cheap, the murder rate was off the scale, and people were killed for virtually no reason, apart from the reason that some people simply enjoyed killing others.

[facthunter]

Pay monthly and you get no trouble BOY. We know where your Kids School is. Nev

[pmccarthy]

I would think about all the options and would probably settle for doing something nasty, untraceable and non-fatal.

[facthunter]

Stick pins in a doll.. Print their face on the toilet Paper.  Get a witch to put a curse on them..  Nev

[spacesailor]

They don't obey the " law of the land " .

So, they must be outlaws . As outlaws the law shouldn't protect them .

hence they can be executed. 

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have to admit, with my daughter rapidly approaching 18 and being indepoendent, I have been mulling a similar type question.. and the honest response was more along the primal nature.

 

However, we are smarter than that. Unfortunately, our culture with respect to this is wait for it to happen and extract retribution.

 

Rarely are such people genuinely evil; there is a debate about whther such behaviour is nature or nurture, and the stats so far suggest a bit of both. However, the science research points to the use of "nueral plasticity" where we can actually reprogram our brains: https://www.physio-pedia.com/Neuroplasticity

 

How about rather than giving away billions and billions in corporate welfare, we invest in identification, intervention, and repairing the problem so it doesn't happen (or minimises the risk of it happening) in the first place?

 

Evern wondered why, over the years, society is becoming more disillusioned and we are embarking on dangerous times?

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

As outlaws the law shouldn't protect them .

Keep swallowing the kool-aid. The law does not "protect" them, apart form a blood-thirsty lynching mob. Is that how you want your society to run? The old ways have long proved useless... The law, which has developed by your elected representatives, moves to try and both protect society and reform/rehabilitate offenders. Sadly, pollies get in the way more often than not.

[spacesailor]

But isn't that , " natural selection "

removing the weak from the herd , makes the herd stronger. 

Horses have been bred for centuries,  just to race . How many were culled to get the " best pedigree " from that herd .(

I should not be here . I was a family runt , had almost every disease, 

Including terminal " osteomyelitis " . ( 4 inches shorter than sibling's ). 

Lack of ( whatever word means childhood training ) .

Disastrous schooling. 

And :

still can't fly . Good with the hands , not with the brain . (  no memory training  ) .

spacesailor

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think you'll find it is the brutal criominals that would win.. wouldn't you? As most of the herd that have a frontal cortex are not violent to one another..

 

Or do you want a world of Putins, and Kim Jon Uns?

 

 

[spacesailor]

Doesn't everyone crave the fifties era. 

Those dictator's are holding their people in a time warp .

spacesailor

 

[octave]

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

Doesn't everyone crave the fifties era. 

Nope

[red750]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

The old ways have long proved useless.

So have the new ways. Take the case of a teenager arrested and bailed 15 times. Steals a car and drives at 213 kph in a 70 zone, T-bones a car and kills 2 people. The new way - Oh, he's only a teenager. We can't lock him up.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yes.. you can always point to individual cases, however, nothing is 100% perfect..

 

So, you have to look at the trends, and my understanding is the general trends of crime is downwards, with the odd upward year (this was the first result and I am not necessarily saying it is accurate - the 100% reduction is probably because that year has not data in it): https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/AUS/australia/crime-rate-statistics

 

Also, what is the trends in recidivism? I haven't found a trend report, but here is an interesting stat: https://www.sentencingcouncil.vic.gov.au/sentencing-statistics/released-prisoners-returning-to-prison

 

Note, the NT has the highest rate of recividivism - you know - the ones that dish out the "tough love". Of course, you can argue that the reaasin is because they do that and it is designed.; I would suggest the truth is in between.

 

When I get some time, I will do some more research..

[pmccarthy]

Where is so and so? He went mad and the police shot him.  That was always my dad's answer and we just assumed the police would do that. It helped keep us honest and sane.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Summary justice, eh? So the police decide who is mad and who isn't, and they become the judge , juror and executioner..

 

You happen to be in a bit of pain withering around and being not quite polite and they put you out of your misery...

 

I recall seeing footage of police beating up an invaliod pensioner after they pinned him down - was it in Northcote or Preston (Melboune)., not too long ago... If it were true, yeah, that is justice, keepiong everyoine in line and sane? Sounds like it.

[Litespeed]

To all those seeking fast justice and righteousness.

 

Please make a orderly cue to the right, yes, in front of that wood chipper.

 

Now start it.

 

Now, just take a leap of faith, yes a forward leap, back to the inquisition.

 

If your righteous, your going to be saved.

 

The rest of us( the humans) line up on the left, breath the fresh air and enjoy life.

[facthunter]

Stay Close Don't join the Far queue. Keep away from Gangs Cops Crack heads and Courts. Innocent Bystander uniform doesn't work especially if you are smiling. . Nev

[kangaroojack]

heavy stuff. don’t think i could handle something like that without losing it.

[ClintonB]

Maybe we need to start punishing the parents along with the offenders. If a 12 year old can break into your house, sneak around, steal your keys, steal your car and joy ride around posting it on social media to boast, they know it’s wrong.

they also know they won’t get punished in any meaningful way because they know the law is stacked in their favour.

maybe taking the benifits off the parents because they are not looking  after their child if this is happening.

then jail time for repeat offenders.I also heard on a tech talk that AI can now keep people from ever opening social media accounts if it deems your content is offensive, so maybe it should be used to stop the young ones permanently, if there is no audience it may help slow offending down.

just my 2 cents worth, without busting any knees like we all would love too after some of these horror stories.