Safety going rediculous

[jetjr]

Change a few names and issue here and we could be discussing CaSA and over regulation in aviation

 

At aome point those involved loose respect and adhereance to rules and the actual safety improvement slows or can reverse.

 

The costs are exponential as incidences reach certain level

 

 

[M61A1]

Safety is good when used properly...its the morons that keep taking it one or two steps further than necessary causing the problem...

Big employers now need efficiency officers that can go through and eliminate some of the disastrous inefficiencies brought about by WHS officers..

Agree completely, this current idea where CEO's and such are held responsible for some idiot's actions will never achieve anything more than lip service compliance, meaning that they will have a bunch ill thought out rules laid out in their manuals and policy statements that give the appearance of being seen to have done something. Doesn't matter if it's impractical or useless, so long as they've been seen to have done something to address perceived issues.

 

Efficiency officers will just add another parasite in addition to to the safety, quality and training officers they already need to employ.

 

Turb's, when the whole world's in high viz, no one stands out. That means a guy in an orange vest standing in front of 200 orange witch's hats is invisible.

 

The silly rules save people the world doesn't need while the rest of us suffer, I think they call it "devolution".

 

 

[djpacro]

I took two photos at Moorabbin Airport recently, of two instructors (separately) sitting on the bench near the windsock to watch their students do solo circuits.

 

One was wearing a high vis vest and could hardly be seen with the background of golden grass. The other in the common bright white shirt clearly stood out.

 

I often ask what risk that the wearing of high vis vests in daytime is attempting to mitigate. My observation over many years is that the greatest risk with people walking around the apron is of someone walking into a rotating propeller. Seems more sensible to me that props should be painted with the military high vis markings.

 

 

[hihosland]

[ATTACH]47812._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

Says it all

 

especially the ear plugs

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

this current idea where CEO's and such are held responsible for some idiot's actions will never achieve anything more than lip service compliance, meaning that they will have a bunch ill thought out rules laid out in their manuals and policy statements that give the appearance of being seen to have done something. Doesn't matter if it's impractical or useless, so long as they've been seen to have done something to address perceived issues.

The current workplace safety obsession in Australia is not very much about safety anymore as it is passing the buck i.e. legal & insurance industry driven (+ unions where they can get their paws in). If there is any sort of accident it means I can produce a document or present some safety equipment to show I complied therefore it was not my fault and must be the next guys.

 

The odd thing is I cannot sack an employee that fails to comply with PPE or removes a safety guard yet any subsequent accident it then is not his fault but mine. Hence the need for management liability insurance.

 

 

[SSCBD]

Its like advertising these days people just zone out - if its all orange then the brain just filters it out and has no response . Too many signs too many warnings. Who remembers the last 5 times you saw a hi viz shirt and what they were doing??

 

And yes it costs us so much in production cost compared to other countries.

 

On another one, my wife who is a school teacher is not allowed to use a small hammer in the classroom to put up stuff with tacks or small nails - needs a full briefing and certificate to do it. What a joke we have become.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

In mining company offices I am not allowed to plug in my phone charger because it has not been checked and tagged.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You have to remember a lot of the legal requirements for safety procedures comes from the insurance industry.

 

Its the free market at its finest.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Milk tankers have a sticker next to the door, with instructions and pictures for a four step process so the driver can get into the cab safely

 

 

[P4D]

You can't legislate for idiots, they're too clever.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I find at the wharves I am far more visible by not wearing fluro. Get out of the truck without a vest on and 30 people are all over you before you even shut the door. My standard answer to them is well you saw me so I must be visible. Remember the machines are all Robots, so can't actually see us anyway.

It's become like an arms race, Geoff- when everyone is wearing it we are blinded by the reflective hi-vis. At accident scenes there is so much visual info that passing motorists are at great risk of hitting a person, even someone in safety gear.

 

At night some highly reflective roads signs are a safety hazard. Even when you dim your lights the signs make it damned hard to see anything past them.

 

 

[hihosland]

It's hi viz

 

[ATTACH]47813._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[jetjr]

Bit too much focus on hi vis, in most cases staff are supplied uniform shirts in any case, if having them yellow and orange helps at all its not such a big deal.

 

They do get expensive with night reflective gear

 

Problem comes as it becomes normal and it pushes into every task and every business.

 

Anyone trained in WHS knows PPE is the last choice and least effective way to mitigate a risky activity.

 

The idea that its management fault, whatever an accident, does lead to excessive proceedures. Especially in big companies where management arent necessarily too interested in productivity or businesss are highly profitable.

 

This may slow as things get tougher in mining.

 

 

[Downunder]

Whenever I pass emergency service vehicles at night, at the scene of an accident, there are so many fast flashing lights I'm actually blinded.........

 

 

[Methusala]

"Anyone trained in WHS knows PPE is the last choice and least effective way to mitigate a risky activity."

 

 

This statement is simply untrue. The truth is that PPE is used as the last line of defence in case the other controls in place are insufficient to prevent injury. To any rational person PPE is essential. Imagine operating machinery producing greater than 85 dB of sound energy not wearing ear protection or a person not wearing a safety helmet when work is being conducted overhead. I would hate to see some of you blokes working in a high hazard environment. Don

 

 

[turboplanner]

Whenever I pass emergency service vehicles at night, at the scene of an accident, there are so many fast flashing lights I'm actually blinded.........

If that's the case you have a medical issue, and should get it checked before flying, or driving.

 

 

[Downunder]

[ATTACH]47814._xfImport[/ATTACH]

[turboplanner]

Milk tankers have a sticker next to the door, with instructions and pictures for a four step process so the driver can get into the cab safely

Multistop truck drivers have a high history of long term knee injury, and long term back injury, and broken ankles, legs, severe injuries from falling off a truck when getting in or out.

 

Often farmers drive milk tankers for extra money in the season.

 

Those stickers are to teach them to face the truck, and use the "three" system, ie two hands around hand grips and one foot on a step, or two feet on the steps and one hand around a hand grip.

 

If they happen to slip on a handgrip or step, this system gives them a chance to arrest the descent.

 

Prior to that it was common for drivers in the extractive/earth moving/milk industry to come out of the truck facing outwards and do the long jump. If there was a piece of 4x2 on the ground hidden by grass they broke their ankle.

 

 

[SDQDI]

There is a syndrome, which we've mentioned on this site where human factors kicks in and two people will collide with each other, neither having consciously seen the other vehicle/aircraft regardless of its markings - fatigue related.It would be interesting to see the actual Workcover statistics of the rate of injury and death reduction over the period where more stringent safety standards were introduced. I saw something a few years ago which indicated the reduction was very substantial.

 

Like the old seat belt arguments, most people who complain, give examples which might be true, but are very low volume exceptions.

I understand what you are saying Turbs but I think it is different to seatbelts. I do agree that high vis can and does help BUT I think it has gone too far and the solution (high vis) has become so widespread that it is cancelling itself out. IMO it is similar to road signs, they definitely help with our driving and keep us aware and safe up to a certain point and then once there are too many signs safety goes downhill as you either don't get to watch the road as much because you are reading the signs or you miss reading some signs because you are watching the road. It is all about getting a balance and I think as far as high vis goes we have gone too far.

 

As for down under and being blinded by the lights I would have to agree, our led emergency lights are really good during the day time but at night they are amazingly bright. But how do you get emergency services to stand out when everything else is reflective?

 

 

[eightyknots]

Industry is being strangled by safety here so much, projects are simply cancelled due to the cost.......which makes workers the fittest and healthiest......in the dole queue."Safety" has become such an "industry" and so many have jumped on the bandwagon we are legislating ourselves into a future 3rd world country.

Instead, secondary industry has shifted to countries where the hi-vis/over-the-top safety requirements are a bit more relaxed and where common sense is still allowed to prevail.

 

 

[Downunder]

If that's the case you have a medical issue, and should get it checked before flying, or driving.

I don't believe I have a medical issue at all.

 

As SDQDI said. The new lights are a very fast flashing intense multicolour strobes. LED?

 

Put a couple of cop cars, an ambulance and yellow light flashing tow trucks on the side of the road at night and someone standing in front of them to direct traffic becomes a blur.....

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Ok this is the plan: we should ban high vis.

 

now who wants to visit their sons in hospital?

 

 

[jetjr]

I agree re roadside lights, flashing lights at night, blind and confuse and really do constitute a safety issue. Try working in the dark around a few machines with them on.

 

Maybe there should be a light intensity controller posted to remotely turn on and off lights so as jut enough and the right colour are going. Each emergency vehicle can, while signing on to site, supply the frequency for their vehicle so the controller can take over control.

 

Maybe automatic intensity control on lights or some sort of engineering shade controlled by satttelite comms, in all road vehicles to prevent this problem. An annual inspection should ensure these shades work and retract properly. Maybe a back to base alarm and recording system.

 

The possibilities are endless

 

Ive sat through meetings where this type of rubbish is leigitamately thrown around. No one is brave enough to say "its going to cost too much" lest they be branded as having poor safety culture or attitude.

 

 

[eightyknots]

No matter how 'loud' the wall paper is, it tends to melt into the background. Too much hi-vis is overkill and tends to clutter the overall vista making it less safe for those people where hi-vis would have been a real safety asset.

 

In summary, FT, people don't want to ban hi-vis. They just want it used sensibly and avoid hi-vis crowding in any given space.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I don't believe I have a medical issue at all.As SDQDI said. The new lights are a very fast flashing intense multicolour strobes. LED?

 

Put a couple of cop cars, an ambulance and yellow light flashing tow trucks on the side of the road at night and someone standing in front of them to direct traffic becomes a blur.....

Yes they are very intense, but the surrounding vehicles and road are still visible. I'm not blinded, and we haven't had hundreds of accidents where unsuspecting motorists, blinded, crashed into vehicles or superstructure, so one way or the other this one's your personal issue.