Safety going rediculous

[coljones]

Instead, secondary industry has shifted to countries where the hi-vis/over-the-top safety requirements are a bit more relaxed and where common sense is still allowed to prevail.

And staff are expendable, and children are forced to work, where workers are locked in, where the hours of work usually exceed 60 per week, where annual holidays are about a week a year (at your expense), where workers comp doesn't exist, where the waterways, ground, air and food are polluted not only with the not so good stuff but the really really bad stuff and there is no tax paid (just bribes) in the source country and certainly not in Australia - basically where human life just doesn't matter and the unions have all been destroyed and the freedom fighters and the outspoken are doing slave labour in gaol.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Multistop truck drivers have a high history of long term knee injury, and long term back injury, and broken ankles, legs, severe injuries from falling off a truck when getting in or out.

Has more to do with the design of the cabin than the sticker

 

Often farmers drive milk tankers for extra money in the season.

What's your point, do farmers need extra cotton wool?

 

Of course if a person makes their living designing these safety systems, of course they are going to pretend it's ok.

 

It doesn't matter to the safety industry that the yellow painted handrails and stickers on the cabins where paid for out of the farm gate milk price. Maybe these kind of things are the reason why there isn't a safety cage around the ladder on the silo, or that we still have to use a post hole digger that was born before the invention of PTO shaft covers.

 

And staff are expendable, and children are forced to work, where workers are locked in, where the hours of work usually exceed 60 per week, where annual holidays are about a week a year (at your expense), where workers comp doesn't exist, where the waterways, ground, air and food are polluted not only with the not so good stuff but the really really bad stuff and there is no tax paid (just bribes) in the source country and certainly not in Australia - basically where human life just doesn't matter and the unions have all been destroyed and the freedom fighters and the outspoken are doing slave labour in gaol.

The problem is Col, if we don't find a place to draw a line in the sand where we can stay a little bit competitive with these places, it won't be you but maybe your children or grandchildren who will have to lower there living standards to these levels to survive. So far we have been lucky to have agriculture and then mining to keep us in the manner to which we've become accustomed, but that is not going to last for ever. We've already completely lost a car industry what is next. I suppose it doesn't matter if we employ those formerly productive people as oh&s managers, and auditors to make sure oh&s manager is doing his job. Then everybody still gets a wage and it's all good right?

 

 

[storchy neil]

wide load 16 feet wide three flashing lights on rear off load rear ended by car

 

driver off car thought he would move over meaning me he did not see escort car two flashing lights or cop car

 

road grader rear ended by light truck grader in table drain cleaning it out 22 feet from sealed surface three flashing lights

 

driver said that we should have stop go batten on road works

 

just as well we didn't I would have had dead traffic controller

 

repeat :loopy:wake up that's so as drug affected drivers:oops: can line you up:sorry: neil

 

 

[M61A1]

Multistop truck drivers have a high history of long term knee injury, and long term back injury, and broken ankles, legs, severe injuries from falling off a truck when getting in or out.Often farmers drive milk tankers for extra money in the season.

 

Those stickers are to teach them to face the truck, and use the "three" system, ie two hands around hand grips and one foot on a step, or two feet on the steps and one hand around a hand grip.

 

If they happen to slip on a handgrip or step, this system gives them a chance to arrest the descent.

 

Prior to that it was common for drivers in the extractive/earth moving/milk industry to come out of the truck facing outwards and do the long jump. If there was a piece of 4x2 on the ground hidden by grass they broke their ankle.

Those stickers are an arxe covering exercise and only of value to the company who makes the stickers. They are only there so the boss man can say " it's not my fault, I told him how to do it properly. It not the boss's fault some git can't get in and out of a truck.

 

Yes they are very intense, but the surrounding vehicles and road are still visible. I'm not blinded, and we haven't had hundreds of accidents where unsuspecting motorists, blinded, crashed into vehicles or superstructure, so one way or the other this one's your personal issue.

bullsh1t......If you can see normally at night, let alone a rainy night with all the junk they have going on at roadworks or a prang, your eyesight must must be exceptionally poor in in normal circumstances. Dont know what planet you're on, but it is very common for there to be secondary crashes, while the original is being cleaned up, or around roadworks at night.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Has more to do with the design of the cabin than the sticker/quote]I've been designing these things for a few decades - it does relate to the design, but various factors increase the height of a truck until at about the five tonne payload class injuries are part of the landscape. 380 mm is about as high as a multi-stop driver can step at each level without getting muscular injuries, and as the size of truck goes up some of these dimensions are exceeded. Multi-stop work involves 40 to 60 stops per day; the homke gas trucks are some of the highest and the driver is usually trotting for 60 stops a day. It's very easy to slip if you don't follow the procedure.

 

What's your point, do farmers need extra cotton wool?

Each year, farmers usually top the injury/fatality numbers, but the reason is they are not trained for milk tanker work, just as a milk tanker driver would have to be trained to crutch a sheep.

 

Of course if a person makes their living designing these safety systems, of course they are going to pretend it's ok.

The benefit of a sticker is that if a new person drives the truck the safe method diagramme is there for him to learn; most of us gut up facing the truck and jumped down facing out in the 60's, 70's, 80's; someone was smart to come up with the 3 process.

 

It doesn't matter to the safety industry that the yellow painted handrails and stickers on the cabins where paid for out of the farm gate milk price. Maybe these kind of things are the reason why there isn't a safety cage around the ladder on the silo, or that we still have to use a post hole digger that was born before the invention of PTO shaft covers.

Workcover visits farms these days so it's only a matter of time when people who haven't caught up are caught.

 

[turboplanner]

Those stickers are an arxe covering exercise and only of value to the company who makes the stickers. They are only there so the boss man can say " it's not my fault, I told him how to do it properly. It not the boss's fault some git can't get in and out of a truck.

The truck fleet managers buy the stickers for peanuts - they're a generic sticker.

 

The reason they do it is not because of macro-economics, but because most drivers of the heavier/higher trucks have specialised skills and the costs ARE big if the driver is off work for three months with a broken ankle.

 

I'd like to see you step up at a truck stop and call one of these drivers a git.

 

bullsh1t......If you can see normally at night, let alone a rainy night with all the junk they have going on at roadworks or a prang, your eyesight must must be exceptionally poor in in normal circumstances. Dont know what planet you're on, but it is very common for there to be secondary crashes, while the original is being cleaned up, or around roadworks at night.

I'm on planet earth, show us all these statistics, and I think you might have made a dislexic statement about my eyesight being poor - I'm the one saying that like about 99% of the population I manage to get past emergency scenes without mowing people down.

 

 

[old man emu]

I thought I would generate some income by doing Test and Tagging of electrical tools. Current WHS legislation says that this equipment must be tested regularly:

 

"If you are a business or employer or other PCBU (Person carrying on a Business or Undertaking) you must make sure that electrical equipment is regularly inspected and tested by a competent person."

 

"All equipment used in a higher risk operating environment in which the normal use of electrical equipment exposes the equipment to operating conditions that are likely to result in damage to the equipment or a reduction in its expected life span must be tested and tagged. This higher risk operating environment contains conditions that involve exposure to moisture, heat, vibration, mechanical, damage, corrosive chemicals or dust, and is commonly called a hostile environment.

 

All items in a hostile environment must therefore be tested and tagged in accordance with AS/NZS 3760:2010. In a Construction environments these items are to be tested and tagged in accordance with AS/NZS 3012:2010."

 

 

After door-knocking for business without any PCBUs showing the slightest interest, I contacted WorkCover NSW to ask if they carried out workplace inspections to see if the requirements were being met. Their response? "We only look at the test and tag records if there has been an incident." Tell that to the mother of a sixteen year-old kid who has been frizzled because of an unsafe electrical appliance.

 

Obviously another example of "It's not a crime until you get caught" (accidentally typed 'court'). The money I spent gaining the qualification and purchasing testing equipment was money down the drain, and that brought me into the area of environmental management - another area where legislation designed to reduce the impact of big business falls heavily onto the neck of small business.

 

Right now I'm drafting Safety Management Plans for bus operators. Even though Transport for NSW provides an example document on its website, a lot of the operators I contact don't have a plan suited to their operations, and what they do have mostly has never been shown to their employees.

 

So, "Yes", WHS legislation is a good starting point for the safety of everyone in the community, but until PCBUs see it as an asset for their businesses, they will fail to promote a climate of safety.

 

It has been said that "Rules are for the direction of fools and the guidance of wise men." The crux of the matter is that the rules must provide a solution to a problem, and those who have to live by them must be made aware of them. That never seems to happen.

 

OME

 

 

[Birdseye]

"Anyone trained in WHS knows PPE is the last choice and least effective way to mitigate a risky activity."

 

This statement is simply untrue. The truth is that PPE is used as the last line of defence in case the other controls in place are insufficient to prevent injury. To any rational person PPE is essential. Imagine operating machinery producing greater than 85 dB of sound energy not wearing ear protection or a person not wearing a safety helmet when work is being conducted overhead. I would hate to see some of you blokes working in a high hazard environment. Don

 

Sorry, but it is you that is wrong. The statement made is absolutely true. PPE is there for the residual risk that may exist *after* suitable controls have been put in place. In your examples, appropriate controls are an engineering solution to mitigate both the noise and the dropped object issue. A fatality from a 50kg object falling from a few metres is not going be prevented by a plastic hat.

 

Sadly ignorance such as this pervades many industries.

 

 

[M61A1]

The truck fleet managers buy the stickers for peanuts - they're a generic sticker.The reason they do it is not because of macro-economics, but because most drivers of the heavier/higher trucks have specialised skills and the costs ARE big if the driver is off work for three months with a broken ankle.

 

I'd like to see you step up at a truck stop and call one of these drivers a git.

 

I'm on planet earth, show us all these statistics, and I think you might have made a dislexic statement about my eyesight being poor - I'm the one saying that like about 99% of the population I manage to get past emergency scenes without mowing people down.

I have worked around truckies for near half my working life, have called plenty of them worse than "git" many times when they've done something dumb. The sticker does nothing except prove some form of compliance, what is hard to understand here.

 

Just because both of us, along with most the rest of the community, have manage not to run into someone at roadworks of accident site, does not mean the excess of flashing lights and beepers is not a hazard. I have lost count of the number times I have seen collisions at roadworks, especially at night. ( worked in asphalt for some years), also the number of times in the evening traffic reports, where one accident is followed by several more at the same site.

 

Your attitude is typical of management, they just don't want to hear that what they've done or spent money on isn't working. Any discussion is futile.

 

 

[M61A1]

Sorry, but it is you that is wrong. The statement made is absolutely true. PPE is there for the residual risk that may exist *after* suitable controls have been put in place. In your examples, appropriate controls are an engineering solution to mitigate both the noise and the dropped object issue. A fatality from a 50kg object falling from a few metres is not going be prevented by a plastic hat.

Sadly ignorance such as this pervades many industries.

Yep, had some fool come out yelling about my lack of hard hat while upside down installing pins, "what are you going to do if that silo (12 tonnes) falls on your head?"....and somehow these people are managers.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I have worked around truckies for near half my working life, have called plenty of them worse than "git" many times when they've done something dumb. The sticker does nothing except prove some form of compliance, what is hard to understand here.Just because both of us, along with most the rest of the community, have manage not to run into someone at roadworks of accident site, does not mean the excess of flashing lights and beepers is not a hazard. I have lost count of the number times I have seen collisions at roadworks, especially at night. ( worked in asphalt for some years), also the number of times in the evening traffic reports, where one accident is followed by several more at the same site.

 

Your attitude is typical of management, they just don't want to hear that what they've done or spent money on isn't working. Any discussion is futile.

If all those "lost count" accidents exist there'll be statistical figures on them, otherwise it's just puffery.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I thought I would generate some income by doing Test and Tagging of electrical tools. Current WHS legislation says that this equipment must be tested regularly:

"If you are a business or employer or other PCBU (Person carrying on a Business or Undertaking) you must make sure that electrical equipment is regularly inspected and tested by a competent person."

 

"All equipment used in a higher risk operating environment in which the normal use of electrical equipment exposes the equipment to operating conditions that are likely to result in damage to the equipment or a reduction in its expected life span must be tested and tagged. This higher risk operating environment contains conditions that involve exposure to moisture, heat, vibration, mechanical, damage, corrosive chemicals or dust, and is commonly called a hostile environment.

 

All items in a hostile environment must therefore be tested and tagged in accordance with AS/NZS 3760:2010. In a Construction environments these items are to be tested and tagged in accordance with AS/NZS 3012:2010."

 

 

After door-knocking for business without any PCBUs showing the slightest interest, I contacted WorkCover NSW to ask if they carried out workplace inspections to see if the requirements were being met. Their response? "We only look at the test and tag records if there has been an incident." Tell that to the mother of a sixteen year-old kid who has been frizzled because of an unsafe electrical appliance.

 

Obviously another example of "It's not a crime until you get caught" (accidentally typed 'court'). The money I spent gaining the qualification and purchasing testing equipment was money down the drain, and that brought me into the area of environmental management - another area where legislation designed to reduce the impact of big business falls heavily onto the neck of small business.

 

Right now I'm drafting Safety Management Plans for bus operators. Even though Transport for NSW provides an example document on its website, a lot of the operators I contact don't have a plan suited to their operations, and what they do have mostly has never been shown to their employees.

 

So, "Yes", WHS legislation is a good starting point for the safety of everyone in the community, but until PCBUs see it as an asset for their businesses, they will fail to promote a climate of safety.

 

It has been said that "Rules are for the direction of fools and the guidance of wise men." The crux of the matter is that the rules must provide a solution to a problem, and those who have to live by them must be made aware of them. That never seems to happen.

 

OME

The problem with all the tests and checks is that the item is guaranteed only to be in good working order at the time the test was done. If users are not vigilant or caring and damage something and the next user doesn't check what is the point. You have to have a safety oriented culture for any of these things to be effective. RA_Aus knows this all too well.

 

And to make another silly point Why is it that TV reporters don a Firefighters coat & a hard hat when the bush fire is out & they are actually allowed there interviewing these guys who are no longer even in uniform. It just looks pathetic to me. Is this some sort of appeal to the great unwashed to show how cool they are.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I thought I would generate some income by doing Test and Tagging of electrical tools. Current WHS legislation says that this equipment must be tested regularly:

"If you are a business or employer or other PCBU (Person carrying on a Business or Undertaking) you must make sure that electrical equipment is regularly inspected and tested by a competent person."

 

"All equipment used in a higher risk operating environment in which the normal use of electrical equipment exposes the equipment to operating conditions that are likely to result in damage to the equipment or a reduction in its expected life span must be tested and tagged. This higher risk operating environment contains conditions that involve exposure to moisture, heat, vibration, mechanical, damage, corrosive chemicals or dust, and is commonly called a hostile environment.

 

All items in a hostile environment must therefore be tested and tagged in accordance with AS/NZS 3760:2010. In a Construction environments these items are to be tested and tagged in accordance with AS/NZS 3012:2010."

 

 

After door-knocking for business without any PCBUs showing the slightest interest, I contacted WorkCover NSW to ask if they carried out workplace inspections to see if the requirements were being met. Their response? "We only look at the test and tag records if there has been an incident." Tell that to the mother of a sixteen year-old kid who has been frizzled because of an unsafe electrical appliance.

 

Obviously another example of "It's not a crime until you get caught" (accidentally typed 'court'). The money I spent gaining the qualification and purchasing testing equipment was money down the drain, and that brought me into the area of environmental management - another area where legislation designed to reduce the impact of big business falls heavily onto the neck of small business.

 

Right now I'm drafting Safety Management Plans for bus operators. Even though Transport for NSW provides an example document on its website, a lot of the operators I contact don't have a plan suited to their operations, and what they do have mostly has never been shown to their employees.

 

So, "Yes", WHS legislation is a good starting point for the safety of everyone in the community, but until PCBUs see it as an asset for their businesses, they will fail to promote a climate of safety.

 

It has been said that "Rules are for the direction of fools and the guidance of wise men." The crux of the matter is that the rules must provide a solution to a problem, and those who have to live by them must be made aware of them. That never seems to happen.

 

OME

We have a co worker that does our test and tagging. I also have a few tags in the ute that I fill out if needed and put his name on them. I let him know of course.

 

Ps- this is not the correct procedure of course as I am not quailified to fill the tag out but I don't give a toss and the qualified person doesn't either. Its just another silly hoop to jump through when working in the construction industry.

 

 

[octave]

Whilst I get annoyed by silly rules and regs, it can't be denied that deaths in the workplace have been drastically reduced. (I have had too many glasses of shiraz to post supporting stats, but please feel free to check).

 

I recently took a friend flying, this friend knew nothing about flying. When I called "clear prop" before starting, they were quite bemused. Can't you see that there is no one around they asked. I could only answer that aviation involved trying to avoid any possible accident scenario wherever possible. I am fine with that, I will continue to call "clear prop" even when I am confident that there could no possibly anyone around. If I have to wear glowy jacket, fine (as long as it does not make my arse look big).

 

As a small child I was allowed to stand in the car in the front seat in front of my mother with my face inches away from the metal dash. my parents were not bad or neglectful parents, that is just what people did, now we know better and the law reflects this. When some of these laws were introduced they were considered to be over the top.

 

Of course that does not mean every new rule is good but lets not throw the babyout with the bathwater. If glowy jackets are not a safety enhancement but indeed a safety hazard, this will show in the accident stats. I notice that so far this discussion has only involved anecdotes and feelings rather than hard facts and stats. I would love to post some hard facts but... damn you Pepperjacks shiraz :P

 

 

[DrZoos]

We have a co worker that does our test and tagging. I also have a few tags in the ute that I fill out if needed and put his name on them. I let him know of course.Ps- this is not the correct procedure of course as I am not quailified to fill the tag out but I don't give a toss and the qualified person doesn't either. Its just another silly hoop to jump through when working in the construction industry.

Careful dazza you just incriminated him and you! that wasnt smart! Best to speak in 3rd person when talking about that sort of stuff!

 

 

[dazza 38]

Careful dazza you just incriminated him and you! that wasnt smart! Best to speak in 3rd person when talking about that sort of stuff!

I havent named who I work for or his name besides I am a contractor who work for different companies and good luck to the anybody trying to find a dazza 38 .

 

 

[DrZoos]

Dazza i could find you in 5 minutes if i had access to ians IP logs which they do and now all ISP have to hold by law for 2 years

 

 

[DrZoos]

A relative of mine works for the NSW police in intel and they do troll forums looking for these admissions to crimes... they have intel on certain members, then when they get enough to bother they pounce and gather evidence... so just be warned!

 

The internet is one of their most productive way of finding and prosecuting crimes...

 

 

[dazza 38]

A relative of mine works for the NSW police in intel and they do troll forums looking for these admissions to crimes... they have intel on certain members, then when they get enough to bother they pounce and gather evidence... so just be warned!

The internet is one of their most productive way of finding and prosecuting crimes...

All our equipment is tested correctly every 3 months, if they want to track me down because I have re written out a tag to replace a ratty one that you can't read within those 3 months then good on them.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Dazza im not having a go at ya....im trying to protect you and your last post does that perfectly well... cheers and happy new years!!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

"Traffic controllers".......stop / go, folks............it's a BOOMING industry. You can be driving out whoop whoop, tractor is slashing the verges, and there's 2 stop go folks there as well. Road could be 5 mile dead straight.Had me whinge.......feeling better now.

I want to die like my granddad, peacefully in his sleep, not like his 3 passengers screaming and terrified

 

 

[dazza 38]

Dazza im not having a go at ya....im trying to protect you and your last post does that perfectly well... cheers and happy new years!!

Its all good Dr, I know you weren't having a go at me, just looking after my best interests. Cheers and happy new year

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have been sitting back here watching the comments and pontifications....its very bemusing to be honest. How many on this particular thread have actually worked on construction sites for any length of time...or in a process industrial line or a mine site, driven trucks or high voltage electrical distribution sites or infrastructure and many of the other industries that require OH&S.

 

My working life has spanned pretty much 40 plus years and in all of the work environments I stated above. At least half I think commenting here are white collar and take the role of "safety officer". Now I am not saying it is not necessary and there does need to be some safety supervision on all sites but it really has got way out of control, no one seems to use "COMMON SENSE" anymore they always try to blame someone else...what ever happened to taking responsibility for your own actions.

 

I used to jump through all the hoops when having to do stupid site inductions and wear all the flashy vests and head and glasses protection because that has been the way it has been heading this past 15 to 20 years. Before that life was easier we got far more work done in the same time and did not waste money in day long inductions and risk management paperwork crap.

 

I can tell you hundreds of stories about how stupid all this is and just how out of control it has become but one in particular comes to mind and it relates to time and costs exploding also stupidity of OH&S.

 

I was asked to quote to supply and install a satellite telephone system into a new multi story building for their system control section incase phone line failed etc..mainly for times of disaster. I supplied a quote after going to the site and just walking in and going up to the 7th floor and into the plant rooms to see where to mount the antenna then run a coax down the riser to the comms cubical where the satphone would reside and out of it was a 2 wire interface that went into the MDF and this 2 wire went to the control room for a phone line. The building was not too far from being finished. I quoted a price which was $4000 to supply the satphone and base station antenna and mount with the low loss coax and allowed 3 hours to do the install which would have been a comfortable time to do the job.

 

I gave them the quote and waited....knew I would get the job because I was the only one in Qld who could do the job and be supported by the satphone carrier when it comes to support and warranty especially for a govt organisation. Now remember I went to site no induction did NOT have fluro clothes on but did have a hard hat and was never challenged even after being in the site office talking to the bosses about necessary information I needed. Turns out the next week the building was "handed over" to owner who by the way was long term leasing the whole building to this govt Quango.

 

So I organise a time to go there and the site manager...who I had seen 1 week before says ok now I need to see your "white card" before you enter also you will need to have a induction. So I said no you just supply me with a "angel" and I will be done in 3 hours. No sorry you will need a white card. Ok no probs I rang the govt dept up and said sorry I cant do the job now as I dont have a white card and will NOT get one as I dont want to spend 6 hrs doing a crap course online and a 5 hr induction you will have to find someone else...cya later.

 

next day I get a call from the satphone carrier (one of the big 3 telcos here in OZ) the Qld manager..he says you have to do the job...I said no I dont so not interested find someone else. He says there is no one else...I said I dont care I will NOT jump through bullsh!t hoops. 2 days after I get a call from the national satellite ops manager for the carrier asking me if I would reconsider and I said no. He rings the next day and says how much will it take for you to make it worth your while. I said I will think about it, he then says just come up with a price and refax your quote to them. So I thought about it and thought bugger it if they want to make me jump through this crap they will pay for every bit of my time and effort. So I worked out that I would need to spend at least 12 hrs doing inductions and courses then knowing what I knew there would invariably be more than one trip needed to site and all the other crap getting in and out. So I faxed them a new quote for $8000 and I had a return acceptance within 10 mins. I thought my new quote would have frightened them off but I wasnt ripping them off this was the extra costs for my time to jump through all their bullsh!t.

 

So I then had to go online and do my white card then go to site get the 5 hr induction done then do the job and yes 3 trips to the site dealing with stuff not being ready when it was supposed to be.

 

Now NOTHING had changed onsite as regards to the people onsite or even really the site. This is the madness of it all. Its such a money wasting exercise in most cases it is so frustrating. I continued my company for another 4 years before selling it at the beginning of 2015 and NEVER used the white card again and so glad I dont have to deal with this sh!t anymore.

 

The company I work for now has common sense about real safety and we all look after each other in the workshop in regards to it. If I see anyone even attempting to anything unsafe or operate any machinery unsafely then they get a ripping and modify their practices and it just works and when everyone at the place which consists of 10 people do this then we NEVER have any work related accidents

 

Mark

 

 

[turboplanner]

The problem with all the tests and checks is that the item is guaranteed only to be in good working order at the time the test was done. If users are not vigilant or caring and damage something and the next user doesn't check what is the point. You have to have a safety oriented culture for any of these things to be effective. RA_Aus knows this all too well.

There were many companies with many employees, including one I worked in manufacturing truck bodies where the operator didn't bother to check electrical cables until they failed somewhere. We never had an electrocution, but others did. The tagging program is designed to avoid this, and you're right, many companies have developed a safety orientated culture and have someone independent, not a penny pincher covering his expense budget, to sweep through the factory at regular intervals, which usually results in earlier, lower cost repairs to equipment anyway.

 

And to make another silly point Why is it that TV reporters don a Firefighters coat & a hard hat when the bush fire is out & they are actually allowed there interviewing these guys who are no longer even in uniform. It just looks pathetic to me. Is this some sort of appeal to the great unwashed to show how cool they are.

Unadulterated posers, usually 50 km from the fires - not even in the zone where a fire officer would pull them up for not wearing gear.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

And staff are expendable, and children are forced to work, where workers are locked in, where the hours of work usually exceed 60 per week, where annual holidays are about a week a year (at your expense), where workers comp doesn't exist, where the waterways, ground, air and food are polluted not only with the not so good stuff but the really really bad stuff and there is no tax paid (just bribes) in the source country and certainly not in Australia - basically where human life just doesn't matter and the unions have all been destroyed and the freedom fighters and the outspoken are doing slave labour in gaol.

Tasmania?

 

Facts make a person look far more intelligent than not Col.