Methusala Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Unfortunately there is no "idiot proof" test for weeding out individuals who normally make the correct decision but fail under stress. Blaming "idiots" is about as helpful to a rational discussion as being arrogant and aloof about any other thing in life. My CFI used to say,"rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the observance by fools". Pretty slick, heh? But my favorite aviation novel is Ernest Gann's masterpiece, *Fate is the Hunter*. His line is that many of the fliers whom he admired were killed through no fault of their own, just dumb luck mixed with happenstance. It is this happenstance which we rely on procedures and PPE to protect ourselves from. But go ahead and don't wear the high visibility clothing and other mandatory gear. In the end it assists Darwinism as it is wrote. Sir William Hudson, Commissioner of the Snowy Scheme mandated safety belts in all Authority vehicles in the mid 50's. Say what you like, this was well before the stupid US system of ambulance chasing lawyers hit this land.
SDQDI Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 The point is not that stopping distance is important, it is about denying a license to somebody who is so stupid that they can't learn to do a calculation. These are the people who cause most of the road accidents. It's ok by me if they only injured themselves, but they may take somebody else out.Personally, I would like seatbelts to be optional with the condition that the taxpayer didn't pick up the cost if you injured yourself without one. I have to disagree Bruce. I know some illiterate people who are much better drivers than the average joe, and from what I have seen intelligence doesn't play a big part in road accidents. The biggest cause is innatention, not concentrating on what's happening whether you are just day dreaming or using your phone or watching the kids in the back seat that is the number one killer followed by fatigue and driving under the influence. And as for seatbelts, I think that it is important they stay mandatory. IMO they are like the ROPS on an old tractor, they might be a bit of a nuiscance but they pay dividends. It isn't only the injured party that has to pay though, we had a job on the highway a while ago which had us (as well as all the other emergency services there!) dealing with a dead toddler lying out on the side of the road, seatbelts are good! My problem is with the excess of hi vis. Yes I know it helps but I think it is getting overused and is making it harder IMO for things like the emergency services to stand out.
turboplanner Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 The fixation on stopping distance is probably one of the worst things about our driving culture. The whole idea that the default action is to stop is dangerous, in almost every case, a driver could have gone around a hazard but chooses to stop, and subsequently runs into what they were fixated on. No argument with a safe following distance or leaving extra room for heavy vehicles. Three Quarter Midgets in speedway racing in the 1960's were having a run of fatal accidents, mostly caused by an error from the leading cars then everyone stepping on the brakes resulting in an avalanche of cars from rear of field running over the top of the leaders. Rules were changed to brakes on rear wheels only, hand operated only, so the reaction had to be to use up that valuable fraction of a section to steer round the issue. Result, no fatalities since.
Bruce Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Hi SDQDI, here we have a difference of opinion which could be checked out by investigation. And I reckon the investigation was done years ago. Sure there are smart illiterate people out there, historical accidents and suchlike. I still assert that more than half the road toll is caused by the 10% stupidest people on the road. And yes one of the stupidest people I know had a Phd. Anyway, this whole thing could be tested but political correctness would stop any tests happening.
kgwilson Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Yep some of the most highly qualified people I know have no common sense. How is it that there are intelligent people with university degrees or doctorates but they can't manage their finances & do silly things that come back to bite them. Sometimes intelligence gets lost in eccentricity.
bexrbetter Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Unfortunately there is no "idiot proof" test for weeding out individuals who normally make the correct decision but fail under stress. I thought that was called "death". I have to disagree Bruce. I know some illiterate people who are much better drivers than the average joe, Me in China. I can't read a thing.
M61A1 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I think some here may be mistaking formal education or schooling for intelligence....the two are completely unrelated.
Kiwi303 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Me in China. I can't read a thing. By the end of my time in CQ I could read printed characters better than I could speak chinese! Very limited vocabulary, but still much bigger than my spoken one. And that was after only a year.
winsor68 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Mate works as a driver for a large transport co.......every driver is issued a largish o/nite type bag, they must carry at all times.........contains, hardhat..hiviz vest..first aid kit.. raincoat..safety specs..ear plugs..plus 2..3 other things i can't recall, ..........they drive trucks, they do 3 days induction.....and every week they sign off a "toolbox" sheet about some bullsh!t topic. Kids, at school, are discouraged from "risky" activities, they are wrapped in cotton wool more and more. Kids run / ride / walk, straight out onto pedestrian crossings, knowing they can demand any vehicle at any distance..........TO STOP. Might just be the one vehicle approaching the crossing, but kids now won't wait, let the vehicle pass, before the kids cross the road. The buggers ride their bicycles along the footpath, then cool as pull straight out onto the ped crossings. We have created "school zones" lower speed limits that's ok, but it's also embedding further disregard into the kids for their own self management / awareness etc. Fast forward 10yrs ......the mind just boggles. Same as kids were doing 100 years ago...
Bruce Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 yes M6I, I would have liked to use the word "intelligence" but the politically correct have trashed that concept . And testing for intelligence is a no-go area too. It is not the same as schooling as you say. We pretend that everybody is equal when there are some who simply lack the mental capacity to control a car or plane. The worst of these could easily be identified but its not gunna happen.
winsor68 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I wonder if there is a correlation between people using phrases like "political correctness gone mad"/generally putting sxxt on recent advances in safety... and those calling for reduced gun controls/wanting to own big automatic guns? I think there is. Similar mindsets. Just goes way over their heads?
Happyflyer Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I wonder if there is a correlation between people using phrases like "political correctness gone mad"/generally putting sxxt on recent advances in safety... and those calling for reduced gun controls/wanting to own big automatic guns?I think there is. Similar mindsets. Just goes way over their heads? Nope, I don't think so. I just drove over 1 km on a perfectly good road at 25 kph, not a worker in sight, then turned off onto a bumpy dirt road with no speed limit posted (100 kph). I haven't owned a gun for 30 years and don't feel the need for one. Two different things.
Bruce Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Here's an example of safety gone mad.. Bacteria are developing resistance to the old antibiotics but the "safety" regulations surrounding new ones makes their development unprofitable. People are dying right now because of this. And no I don't have a gun.
M61A1 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I wonder if there is a correlation between people using phrases like "political correctness gone mad"/generally putting sxxt on recent advances in safety... and those calling for reduced gun controls/wanting to own big automatic guns?I think there is. Similar mindsets. Just goes way over their heads? What recent advances in safety would we referring to? To be an advancement, would suggest have improvement. I haven't seen anything new or better for years now in the workplace heath and safety arena. We may have some improvements in vehicle and helmet technology, as well as some medical advances, but no, safety (road and workplace) has just been more of the same, applied more rigidly, with much the same result.....bugger all. The only real advancements I can think of at the moment are remotely operated tools for those with really dangerous jobs like Explosive Ordnance Demolition.
winsor68 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 What recent advances in safety would we referring to?To be an advancement, would suggest have improvement. I haven't seen anything new or better for years now in the workplace heath and safety arena. We may have some improvements in vehicle and helmet technology, as well as some medical advances, but no, safety (road and workplace) has just been more of the same, applied more rigidly, with much the same result.....bugger all. The only real advancements I can think of at the moment are remotely operated tools for those with really dangerous jobs like Explosive Ordnance Demolition. That explains a lot about the strange attitude you have adopted towards WH&S.
Bruce Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Here's another example... I gave a chuck-glider to my grandkids who flew it after school when it landed on a veranda gutter. It was just out of reach for a tall man and my daughter asked where a ladder was. This caused a panic among the school staff as the teacher who had ( no kidding) the only Ladder License could not be found.
Kiwi303 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Doesn't the Physics teacher know enough physics to use one safely without a licence?
M61A1 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 That explains a lot about the strange attitude you have adopted towards WH&S. Well you still haven't told me of these recent "advances"....what have you got? I'm guessing that you have some involvement in the field. The company I work for has just employed several extra people and spent just over a million dollars upgrading their safety system....a lot of management are Not happy. As these lot have been visiting every workshop around the country with their great new system showing everyone how it works at great expense, more than a few people have asked "what has changed?" They get red in the face and try to distract people and change the subject, because nothing has changed. They've spent over a year and a lot of money rearranging it and calling it new. Australian health and safety people need a massive shift in mindset before most people will take them seriously. Advancements....what are they????????
turboplanner Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Here's another example... I gave a chuck-glider to my grandkids who flew it after school when it landed on a veranda gutter. It was just out of reach for a tall man and my daughter asked where a ladder was. This caused a panic among the school staff as the teacher who had ( no kidding) the only Ladder License could not be found. One of my school friends slid off a roof over a gutter and broke his arm, one of my fleet customers decided to clean the leaves out of his gutters, fell and broke his neck and died, leaving behind a young family, a workmate retired and the forst job he decided to do was clean out the gutters - broke his neck and died. in all cases just out of reach for a tall man.
Russ Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 chap stepped off the footpath, hit by bus, died...........spoze he should've been wearing hiviz, maybe bus should've miraculously just levitated over him. Numbers of folks every yr drown at our beaches......even patrolled ones, yea, let's ban swimming at beaches........unsafe. Accidents happin.....unfortunate, but that's the way it is. Reading some posts here, exposes the rediculous pathway, safety is heading. It's now an industry, employs officers/consultants/ trainers/trainers of trainers/paper shufflers/on and on, it goes. Little wunder more and more firms seek off shore facilities, as our incentives / our rules, are just strangling folks. This "now" safety direction, is just crazy.
M61A1 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Going to jump in for Dazza here....could we spell ridiculous properly.... please?
M61A1 Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Doesn't the Physics teacher know enough physics to use one safely without a licence? Maybe they specialized in "theoretical " physics, rather than "applied" physics.....
Russ Posted January 3, 2016 Author Posted January 3, 2016 Going to jump in for Dazza here....could we spell ridiculous properly.... please? you can jump off the sydinay harbor bridge for all i care.......fair dinkum... spelling, geez
M61A1 Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 you can jump off the sydinay harbor bridge for all i care.......fair dinkum... spelling, geez Will falling off my roof while using a ladder do?
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