Unintended Consequences

[old man emu]

I've said it before, whatever Mankind invents has its good side and its bad side. Take LED street lighting. LEDs produce a very usable white light without requiring the amount of electricity needed by incandescent or fluorescent light. That's their good side. However, their light spectrum is very close to sunlight, and that produces their bad side. LED lights confuse the day/night differences that insects use to determine when they will be active.

 

This video identifies the unintended consequences of the use of LED street lighting. It' been made in England, but "insects is insects, Sol".

 

 

[octave]

15 minutes ago, old man emu said:

LEDs produce a very usable white light without requiring the amount of electricity needed by incandescent or fluorescent light.

LEDs can of course be any colour so perhaps the solution is to alter the wavelength.  We have smart LED lights in our house and in the evening towards a more red end of the spectrum.  The point is LED lights don't have to mimic daylight so the problem is not LEDs

[octave]

I think these days there is the potential for public lighting to be much smarter than it is.  Why have street lighting on throughout the night when it could use motion detection?   Wavelengths could alter automatically to take into account local wildlife.   I remember in the early 2000s before LEDs Parliament House in Canberra started turning off its floodlighting during the Bogong moth migration times.

Back in the early 2000s I had a friend who was an astronomer at ANU/Mt Stromlo and I remember he used to complain about the sodium street lighting being a wavelength that seriously interfered with observations from Mt Stromlo (before it burnt down).

 

Here is an article about wildlife-friendly LEDs

 

Wildlife Lighting – Wildlife Friendly LED Lights

[spacesailor]

Who has not seen those same insects. Swirling g around a incandescent street light .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Don't believe what you read on U tube..  Nev

[facthunter]

Moths to a flame.  Nev

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, octave said:

The point is LED lights don't have to mimic daylight so the problem is not LEDs

Couldn't agree more. 

 

3 hours ago, octave said:

LEDs can of course be any colour so perhaps the solution is to alter the wavelength. 

That's the obvious solution. However, to implement a solution, those responsible have to know there is a problem. I imagine that the identification of this consequence is relatively recent, since the introduction of LED public lighting is also relatively recent. The Powers-That-Be probably are unaware of the effect LED public lighting has on the Food Chain. If they were made aware of the problem, and a solution was proposed that meant changing to LEDs that did not emit the problem wavelengths, then the whole idea would be kiboshed with the "Too expensive to change them" response.

 

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

Who has not seen those same insects. Swirling g around a incandescent street light

We have, but as yet Science cannot tell us exactly why. Most nocturnally active moths are attracted to light, a phenomenon known as positive phototaxis. Note the word "nocturnally". Insects are either nocturnal or diurnal (daytime). The light from these public lighting LEDs is close to sunlight. So diurnal insects never get to rest, and nocturnal insects never get out and about. That alters the food supply for animals that eat insects, and it also affects breeding behaviour in the insect which can result in population decrease.

 

And for Spacey: https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/why-moths-are-attracted-to-light/

[octave]

9 minutes ago, old man emu said:

The Powers-That-Be probably are unaware of the effect LED public lighting has on the Food Chain.

I have seen a few studies on this subject so I would think it is a known thing.

 

10 minutes ago, old man emu said:

a solution was proposed that meant changing to LEDs that did not emit the problem wavelengths, then the whole idea would be kiboshed with the "Too expensive to change them" response.

I think the price of LEDs has come down. In any case the answer would not be to pull them down and replace them with antiquated technologies that cost a lot more to run and still have some of the same problems regarding wildlife.  The answer would be to ensure that new installations were with LEDs can be adjusted to take into account wildlife considerations and any replacement of LEDs that are harmful should be a step forward to adjustable wavelength LEDs not back to sodium lighting or similar. 

[facthunter]

Use a coloured filter. Fluorescent tubes "strobe". The moon is yellow when there's  atmospheric contamination and it's rising or setting. Fog lights are better when they are yellow and adjusted low.. Nev

[red750]

Amazing light LED's  put out. I bought a small torch for $9.00 with a front lens only the size of a 10c coin, and 1 LED in it. Brilliant light which shows up on the garage door opposite. Only requires 2 AA batteries, fits in my pocket. My son and daughter both have LED headband lights. Light things up like floodlights. They also have a flashing red cycle.

[facthunter]

Great if you are coming the other way and don't dip them. Really modern stuff dips part of them automatically. Nice.   Nev

[onetrack]

Really bright lighting buggers up the likes of owls, too - who rely on low light to hunt. I get annoyed at people stringing rope lights or fairy lights around the street trees outside their house, or in their yard. Where are the diurnal birds going to roost?

We had an owl turn up in our carob tree out front, it's a big bushy, thick foliage tree, and we have no lighting in the front yard. We only turn on the garage motion sensor light once in a while. I reckon the owl chose the spot to perch in the carob, because it was nice and dark.

[old man emu]

19 hours ago, octave said:

In any case the answer would not be to pull them down and replace them with antiquated technologies that cost a lot more to run and still have some of the same problems regarding wildlife. 

I didn't mean to do that. Octave was the one who suggested using the facility in LEDs to use different wavelengths. I was simply saying that while that seems to be the answer, Councils would only see replacing the white LEDs with LED types that didn't cause problems to insect behaviours as a burdensome cost. To Hell with the little critters, it's the bottom line that matters.

[nomadpete]

Re: LED's and insects....

I fitted our camper with 'warm white' LED's which cast a reddish light. They don't seem to attract insects. And,  I am typing this whilst waiting for my meal at an outside restaurant near Albany. The place is well lit with lots of big LED lights - non of which have the expected cloud of bugs. So it seems to me that when it comes to upsetting the sex lives of insects, LED's are not as bad as flourescent lights.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I always thought that the "attraction" of insects to lights was just a side-effect of their navigation....  if you keep a bright light ( eg the moon ) at a constant angle, you will fly in a straight line, at least for awhile like insects did back before streetlights etc.

try this near a streetlight and you will spiral in or stay circular or spiral out and away....  try this on paper.

[onetrack]

I think you can still buy yellow light globes that repel (or don't attract) insects.

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

the "attraction" of insects to lights was just a side-effect of their navigation

Have a read of the link I drew Spacey's attention to earlier. 

 

HPM 5W 485lm A55 Yellow Anti Insect E27 LED Bulb - best of both worlds. Available at your local red and green shed. But it's an Edison screw fitting.

Or HPM B22 LED 5W Anti Insect Bulb A55 with a "normal" fitting.

[spacesailor]

I have that ' yellow ' lamp outside my front door. 

I think it's a bit expensive to throw out a perfectly good incandescent lamp ,

To replace it with a LED that will only do the same thing .

so it stays untill it expires. 

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

Using a lot more energy for the same lumens. The Gov't supply the better stuff for free. Nev

[spacesailor]

Those " free " government fluorescent globed blew my ' dimming switches ' when they were installed .

Then I bought Aldi's LED globes & changed to them ,  myself .

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

Hard to follow space. You said it was an incandescent lamp..  Nev

[octave]

There was a time when LED bulbs were expensive but now there is little logic in not updating. They use 80% less power and can be bought for as little as a dollar each.   https://www.bunnings.com.au/luce-bella-a60-b22-led-806lm-cool-white-8w-globe-2-pack_p0254550

[spacesailor]

The government's " free " light globes were ' fluorescent ' . Never had a free LED globes offer .

And the front-door porch light was not changed , & is still the old incandescent  

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

No idea about this free stuff; over here, the power companies had to provide them for a period. But they just upped the bills.

 

Anyway, already have some LED lighting and will be installing about 30 LED downlights in the kitchen, laundry, and bathroom. I think it was about £150 for the downlights if that and I think are guaranteed for more hours than I can reasonably estimate I will live for.

 

[octave]