Apocolypse approaches.

[red750]

Victoria has hit the wall. The government is so far in debt, the Treasrer, Tim Pallas has issued a decree - not one cent more. Services may have to be cut. Ambulances are ramping, people dying waiting for an ambulance, and ambos burning out and quitting. Police are threatening industrial action and working to rule due to overwork. But no money to pay them or for more resources.

 

And there is a military equipment display on this coming weekend, and thousands of anti-Palestine protesters vowing to create obstruction and demonstration.

[onetrack]

Daniel Andrews would have to be the biggest spendthrift politician around - and as someone who has never held down a real job, he would've been the worst choice for Premier of Victoria that anyone could make.

[pmccarthy]

He was as bad as Joan Kirner and we are still living with the crap she did.

[ClintonB]

I turned on the "NEWS" this morning, don't know why, because I have taken to not watching it anymore-same question asked 20 different ways annoys the shit out of me.

First thing i hear is Victoria has changed crime age to 12, not the 14 because it was too high, followed by a story of a 14 year old on bail for running cyclists down and posting brag videos of the crime,

has now car jacked with weapons and police chased again to be arrested. There is no cure, whilst we continue to moly coddle these C%$ts and let them keep getting away with it. the parents and "child"

need o be punished in a meaningful way that changes the behaviour or it will continue. That should be financial as well as physical. Society was not this bad before because people knew right from wrong (the majority)

The pendulum has swung the wrong way. Judges need to be accountable, the police need to be able to do their job and not have the effort wasted.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sadly, another example of relying on press beat-ups to come to a conclusion. My experience is anecdotal, but as a young-an, I first enjoyed life in the serene suburb of Kew East in Melbourne. Hardly a dust up in school; no bullying to note, and virtually no crime, let alone youth crime. Then, after my parents split, life was turned upside down in the suburb of Glenroy, a lower-income suburb next to Broadmeadows, where it was the polar opposite. I had never before  heard of a street gang, burglaries, car theft, etc - much of it committed by youth and there was one kid in our class who's father's profession was burglary. No second prizes for guessing how that kid ended up (I coincidentally googled his name and area and some old newspaper articles came up).  Oh, and not to mention the schoolyard violence and bullying.. 

 

I think you can see a picture emerging. But it went a bit deeper than that. The school I left in Kew East, admittedly early, the teachers were committed, and Mr. Stanton (one always remembers a great teacher) started teaching us electronics in grade 3. The next year, it was like stepping into a child minding centre.. it's not that the teachers were not committed - there were a couple I recall, including Mr. Parker, who worked tirelessly - but against under-funding and disinterested parents and kids. It was quite the world apart - and Kew East was decidedly middle class at the time - not like Kew, Malvern, Hawthorn, and the like. 

 

The press are great at beating things up - which sells papers and brings eyeballs to the screen near you; all , which forms popular opinion. Sadly, they rarely put a balanced set of facts across and the next thing you know, society is baying for blood. A quick Google search will tell you Victoria has the second lowest rate of youth offending, only beaten by the ACT and SA; Given the socio-economic makeup of the ACT, that is not a bad effort. It will also yield that despite a sudden rise in youth crime last year, Victoria still has 5% less youth crime than it id in 2019 (pre-pandemic) and it was on the decrease then. Is it coincidence the spike came at a time of a cost of living crisis and an increasing epidemic of anxiety. 

 

Vic has recently abandoned the reform to up the age of criminal responsibility to 14 thanks to one highly publicised incident. To be honest, I haven't done the research, but the articles I quote below say it is a waste and resources would be better spent attacking the root cause to prevent it from happening in the first place. And it will probably be a lot cheaper in the long run. 

 

https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1475994/youth-crime-in-australia-an-in-depth-analysis-of-trends-and-statistics#:~:text=Youth crime in Australia – Victoria&text=In 2023%2C crimes committed by,aggravated burglary and vehicle theft. Is a fairly high level  overview. I would be concerned why in one year there was a marked increase in Victoria in youth crime. What was the sudden change. Given there were no sudden changes in the law or enforcement,  nor social services, I would suggest the idea that the we are suddenly "molly-coddling these c**ts". What has changed? Maybe that is a better place to start.

 

From this article: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/jul/12/amid-claims-of-a-youth-crisis-victorias-approach-is-working-advocates-say, "Murray says all data is “open to interpretation” but most of those working the sector know they are dealing with a “small group of kids” in a “small number of postcodes”. 

 

And this article shows despite the spike recently, the trend has been lowering youth crime: https://youthlaw.asn.au/the-facts-in-youth-crime/

 

Its a bit like the DV Murder - there was a spike and the press beat it up as if it was a chronic problem. Both issues have the potential to be a chronic problem, but in these cases the experts may well have the better ideas to resolve (or reduce, as you will never totally resolve) the issue.

 

BTW, I forgot about this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/14/alarming-surge-in-mental-ill-health-among-young-people-in-face-of-unprecedented-challenges-experts-warn

 

Look at some of the root causes identified... The news rarely makes much of a meal of that, because it would offend their advertisers, and therefore, revenue.

 

 

 

Edited August 15 by Jerry_Atrick

[red750]

These are the kids raised in the era of "You must not smack your children" if they misbheave. They have no concept of right or wrong. They are also the kids who spend half their life glued to Tik-Tok and like media, where influencers goad them into illegal activities. Only today, the report of an eleven year old who was influenced to chrome on paint fumes and died. The ring doorbell camera and other CCTV of groups of teenagers armed with machetes jumping over fences and breaking into houses in the early hours are all staged to convince us things are worse than they are? What about police helicopter infrared film of 3 or 4 kids jumping out of a stolen car and leaping over fences and hiding on rooves? All staged?

 

When we were kids, my siblings and I were kept in line with a 2inch wide belt my father had. You didn't step out of line twice. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

39 minutes ago, red750 said:

These are the kids raised in the era of "You must not smack your children" if they misbheave.

Kids didn't comit crimes in the era of corporal punishment? I think you will find the stats have little correlation to the era of corporal punishment - there were cycles of high and low rates of youth offending (oddly, these cycles are correlated to non-youth offending).. with the 1900;s high low in the 30s and escalating well past the 50s. Of course, a pure rate is useless as you have to categorise the crime - in days gone by, petty crime was pursued yet it is hardly reported today let alone working out who the offender was.  In fact, did it not just mean those likely to misbehave became canny at not getting found out by their parents (until the police got involved)?

 

43 minutes ago, red750 said:

They have no concept of right or wrong.

Are you saying kids today don't know right from wrong? They may at the moment be more cavalier than they were only a couple of years ago, but that doesn't mean they don't know right form wrong.

 

45 minutes ago, red750 said:

They are also the kids who spend half their life glued to Tik-Tok and like media, where influencers goad them into illegal activities. Only today, the report of an eleven year old who was influenced to chrome on paint fumes and died.

There are, but oddly your example doesn't sound like a crime.. But were kids not influenced before tech.. Remember the famous (or infamous) "dares", where kids wourld be dared into doing all sorts of things. Tech spreads it quicker, but is was certainlyu around in thiose days, and it didn't take long for new things from others got around...  I was speaking to a bloke in the pub a few years ag o - respectable civil engineer who as a teenager stole the odd car to impress the girls... as well.. Seems like pretty women were influencers back then, too.

 

48 minutes ago, red750 said:

The ring doorbell camera and other CCTV of groups of teenagers armed with machetes jumping over fences and breaking into houses in the early hours are all staged to convince us things are worse than they are? What about police helicopter infrared film of 3 or 4 kids jumping out of a stolen car and leaping over fences and hiding on rooves? All staged?

No, but this has been going on for years (well, maybe not hte police helicopter thing); youth gangs well before more "liberal approaches" were adopted mainstream and some of them were bloody violent. The increase in tech available, including the police filming, etc, makes it more accessible to the public. Funny how they turn off their body cams, for example, when they want to.

 

Your argument is like saying, society is increasingly fragmented and needs to be brought back together. The society was very close and looking out for each other during WWII ; we need another war to bring society back together. Prove causation, an you have a point. There apparently is evidence (I say apparently as this is a what I was taught at a criminology class - but can;' be arsed looking it up) a correlation between removing corporal punishment from school and reduction in vikolence at schools. It may well be a coincidence, though.,

[octave]

I was raised without being hit as was my wife. We are both law-abiding members of society.  We never once hit my son, the idea is abhorent to us. He has grown up to be a kind a successful man and is in fact in my opinion a better man than me. He is certainly less judgemental.

 

When you don't rely on inflicting pain as a teaching tool you have to rely on discussion and negotiation.  This makes for a child that grows up into a kind adult and I would argue more intelligent in terms of solving problems intellectually rather than with fists. 

[red750]

10 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Kids didn't comit crimes in the era of corporal punishment?

Nowhere near the extent that they do these days. You can't turn on the TV these days without hearing of another episode. And most kids under 15 were not allowed out at night like they are now. You have kids as young as 10 roaming the streets well after midnight. Maybe because I came from the bush, and we didn't the level of communication, I never heard about it. The odd case, yes, but not seven days a week. Even when I was a paperboy delivering papers before school I didn't hear about it. But then, I'm under 3 months off 80.

[spacesailor]

Apocalypse. 

I have just read that a meteor crash into the Indian Ocean,  causing a 100 ' tidal wave to wash completelyover the Perth area of Western Australia. 

Now another like that would be an Apocalypse. 

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

They didn't have "true crime" TV shows, dash cams, mobile phones, doorbell cams, IR cams on choppers, the Internet, social media, and a 24 hour frenetic news service when you were growing up Red.

Just because you see it more now, doesn't mean it's happening more 

[facthunter]

Also Is it the truth or did you read it in the Murdoch Press?  Look at SKY, FFS. Nev

[red750]

I saw a video of an interview with Tim Pallas, but you just can't resist a chance to take a shot.

[facthunter]

Back off Red.  You're over  reacting. Nev

[red750]

You back off.

[facthunter]

Look I don't even know WHAT you are reacting to and  I intend to continue as I have been doing. Nev

[old man emu]

If you are a Boomer, or were born during WWII, you were raised by parents who had been exposed to a fair amount of discipline, which made you pretty meek and mild in relation to being bad. You got up to mischief, but not crime. However, Boomers did revolt against even that mild level of discipline and raised their children on a lighter rein. Then the grandchildren of the Boomers were raised with even less discipline. 

 

However, once again we are being fed sensationalist news. One kid goes on a rampage and suddenly every kid of that age is a criminal psychopath. I don't see it in my town. Do you in yours? And if you do, what is the socio-economic background of the wild children? “The sins of the father are to be laid upon the children.” ― William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, which is harkening back to Exodus 20:5 , but that wa god saying I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me. 

[facthunter]

WE make God in our own image.   Nev

[red750]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

One kid goes on a rampage and suddenly every kid of that age

That one kid has been damned busy again. Stolen and smashed cars, people injured. Kids arrested (and bailed again), and that's just last night.

[old man emu]

This is data from 2014 when 1.4 million Australians were aged between 13 and 17 years. If you want to say that the number hasn't changed significantly, then you can also say that the majority of young people are law-abiding and never get a mention in the sensationalist media.

[facthunter]

Apocalypse Approaches? Would that be when a Mumbo Jumbo lands without a clearance? Nev