CORRUPTION IN AUSTRALIA

[Bruce Tuncks]

It was with horror that I read about corruption in ukraine,

Personally, I reckon that there is no punishment bad enough to deal with corrupt officials.

What can we do here?   I suggest that we can at least write to our mp's asking for action here in Australia.

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

What can we do here?   I suggest that we can at least write to our mp's asking for action here in Australia.

Have you heard about the The National Anti-Corruption Commission, created to enhance integrity in the Commonwealth public sector by deterring, detecting and preventing corrupt conduct? It's the political version of the gummy shark. Both are toothless, but at least gummies are good for you when the chips are down. 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I have  read about some feel-good things that are going on, but australia is still not climbing up to no 1 on the scale. Just why Albanese is not making more of the Liberals failures in the past is a mystery to me.

As a contractor wannabe in the NT, I had a  first-hand look at how corruption works here ( We were sent packing from govt jobs in the nt, by a person who soon afterwards was rewarded with a big job for a big phone company. The clients had to accept poorer service for more money as a result of this corruption. ) 

I don't think they ( the corrupt ones ) were breaking any rules or laws either then or now. I sure could write up some rules to stop this sort of thing, starting with a big increase  in the time between leaving a regulation job and starting as a executive for a company hitherto regulated by the likes of the person concerned.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Two things I have learnt:

1. A contractor works for whoever is actually paying him and nobody else.

2. It's more fun being a farmer than a contractor.

Point number 1 explains why a pensioner gets short shrift from a medical specialist, and point 2 explains why successful business people buy farms.

[onetrack]

In my neck of the woods, it's huge global corpoarations and overseas pension funds that are buying all our decent-size farms. I'm absolutely blown away by the "corporatisation" of farming in recent years - and the vast sums of money being poured into farmland.

 

Farm prices have gone ballistic here, and the thing that staggered me most was going to a local Field Day, where sharebrokers and global financiers took a leading position in the displays. A far cry from when we used to go to Field Days to see what the latest farmer inventions were, and what the latest affordable farm supplies were, on offer.

 

Now, the farm machinery costs in the millions (a harvester is easily over 3/4 million today), farms sell for multiple millions (where a few hundred thousand used to be the norm), and anyone who bought any farm in the 70's or 80's, or even the 90's, is the recipient of multi-million dollar windfall gains.

 

Edited October 18 by onetrack
spellink...

[nomadpete]

CORRUPTION IN AUSTRALIA?

 

We don't have any of that in our grand country!

 

If there was, the NACC would rout it out immediately!

[spacesailor]

HA HA.

Fat chance . 

spacesailor

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, nomadpete said:

CORRUPTION IN AUSTRALIA?

We don't have any of that in our grand country! If there was, the NACC would rout it out immediately!

May I refer you to the post located six above this one?

[nomadpete]

Hey I'm not sucked in by false news from main stream media. Nor Farcebook!

 

 

My cleaning lady told me. And her uncle's mum works in Canberra. So she would know.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Working? In Canberra? Didn't know there was such a thing (military, emergency services, and cleaning staff, excepted).

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I wonder if corruption is not linked to a free press in that we hear frightening things all the time...   Far better, says me, to be like this than live under a muzzled press.

But then the countries above us on the "corruption-free" list also have a free press. Just maybe not so murdochified?

[old man emu]

What we see as corruption in human activities is simply the result of the evolution of a basic animal survival technique. The less powerful do something for the more powerful in order that the less powerful has a better chance at survival. That's why we see young chimpanzees grooming the senior adult males. Within human civilisations gifts of money, objects or services are used by the less powerful to gain benefits from the more powerful. The less powerful will initiate the process, but it is the more powerful who complete it, either by accepting or rejecting the offer. So, the continuation of corruption is dependent on the morality of the more powerful, and since moral norms are the product of the society which developed them, corruption can only be eliminated by revising those social norms. The lesson from human history is that such a revision will never occur.

[nomadpete]

It's only corruption if I'm not allowed to be in on it.

[Marty_d]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

What we see as corruption in human activities is simply the result of the evolution of a basic animal survival technique. The less powerful do something for the more powerful in order that the less powerful has a better chance at survival. That's why we see young chimpanzees grooming the senior adult males. Within human civilisations gifts of money, objects or services are used by the less powerful to gain benefits from the more powerful. The less powerful will initiate the process, but it is the more powerful who complete it, either by accepting or rejecting the offer. So, the continuation of corruption is dependent on the morality of the more powerful, and since moral norms are the product of the society which developed them, corruption can only be eliminated by revising those social norms. The lesson from human history is that such a revision will never occur.

I'd argue that in recent times this has shifted from "less powerful/more powerful" to "powerful/powerful".  

For example corporations making large political donations.  The corporations are powerful in their own right, in some circumstances even more powerful than the federal government, so that corruption is more of a trade between equals (money for influence) while your truly less powerful, the people who the government is meant to be representing, aren't even in on the game.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Marty_d said:

I'd argue that in recent times this has shifted from "less powerful/more powerful" to "powerful/powerful". 

Less/more are relative. The basis of corruption is that the person making the offer desires more of something that the recipient has, and the person making the offer has less of something that the recipient has. Once the offer is accepted the desires of both are satisfied and an equilibrium is reached. Both parties could be very powerful in their own circles of influence, but those circles may only overlap narrowly. The interaction between the two circles can be represented by a Venn diagram. The overlap represents the opportunity for corruption to occur between those considered powerful.

 

 

 

[facthunter]

 These theories are NOT absolutes. If the LAW doesn't get obeyed, the Degree of corruption is limitless. You are then controlled by whoever controls  the Vaccuum. It could be the Trump MAFIA. Power corrupts. ABSOLUTE Power Corrupts absolutely. Interfering with the vote is a fist indicator of worse to follow.  Nev

[onetrack]

The bottom line is that corruption is endemic in every society and only those countries with laws to try and control it make any attempt to rein it in. However, despite all the laws we have as regards secret commissions and corruption, every day brings up another story of someone in a position of power who has been discovered to be corrupt. The anti-corruption laws only drive corruption underground.

 

But only a small number are discovered, because the other parties involved in the corruption - the facilitators - are not going to squeal, because they know they'll face penalties as well as the corrupt person they've been paying off.

Corruption can range from petty demands for payment for "assistance" right through to public servants fabricating invoicing, and determining the awarding of jobs, right through to politicians taking secret payments from lobbyists to ensure important decisions go the lobbyists way.

[old man emu]

Makes you wonder what sort of fool you are for being honest.

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, onetrack said:

The bottom line is that corruption is endemic in every society and only those countries with laws to try and control it make any attempt to rein it in. However, despite all the laws we have as regards secret commissions and corruption, every day brings up another story of someone in a position of power who has been discovered to be corrupt. The anti-corruption laws only drive corruption underground.

 

But only a small number are discovered, because the other parties involved in the corruption - the facilitators - are not going to squeal, because they know they'll face penalties as well as the corrupt person they've been paying off.

Corruption can range from petty demands for payment for "assistance" right through to public servants fabricating invoicing, and determining the awarding of jobs, right through to politicians taking secret payments from lobbyists to ensure important decisions go the lobbyists way.

All too true, OT.

 

However,  with regard to attempts to restrict or control corruption....

I don't see Australia  having oligarchs an the same league as the Russian ones. Our efforts, although often laughable, do some good.

[facthunter]

We don't do so bad, compared to most. Nev

[nomadpete]

Here is a new one,  allegedly with bipartisan support, which makes me suspicious....

 

"Labor will introduce a bill to parliament on Monday to change electoral laws, with caps on donations and campaign spending."

(From ABC news)

 

Sounds great in theory.

But it only limits Party and Candidate donations and spending.

 

The USA has PAC system whereby an arms length organisation gathers money to pay for advertising, and not being part of the party, choose to pay for their own advertising to 'help' someone to get elected.

 

And no lifetime limit for candidates.

[nomadpete]

PS.

Sorry but I exceeded the ten line attention span of forums.

[facthunter]

The proposed legislation is good I reckon. Knock the stuffing out of Big Clive and the Gorgeous Gina.  Unions are affected also. Nev

[Marty_d]

Teal candidates aren't happy. But yes any action to limit political donations is a good start.

[facthunter]

Holmes A Court funds them. Nev