What has Trump done now?

[rgmwa]

3 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I am devestated. I thought Trump had a cunning plan, like in Blackadder. Now I know he is a total f…wit. And about the minerals, I did some more reading, there aren’t any. It was all BS.

Are you seriously surprised?

[rgmwa]

This commentary by George Brandis sums the situation up pretty well:

 

Donald Trump has said that he wanted each day of his presidency to be like an episode of a reality TV show. On Friday, local time, he certainly achieved that.

At the end of his astonishing Oval Office argument with Volodomyr Zelensky Trump said, with apparent satisfaction: “This is going to be great television.”

It is easy to be distracted by the sheer awfulness of the scene: the presidents of two nations who are, at least theoretically, meant to be allies, bickering in full view of the world’s media as Ukraine’s fate hangs in the balance. But it is important to look through the pyrotechnics on display to appreciate what Trump’s behaviour reveals, not just for the future of Ukraine, but about his view of America’s role in the world.

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, US President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance.Credit:Bloomberg

 

Trump’s petulance, and his evident personal disdain for Zelensky, make it difficult to watch the exchange without cringing.

 

The point at which things begin to go off the rails is when Vice President J.D. Vance – appearing to relish the role of provocateur – accuses Zelensky of being “disrespectful”. He wasn’t, he was merely putting Ukraine’s position.

Zelensky asked Vance a question – it proved to be a mistake

From that point, first Vance, then Trump, berates Zelensky with increasingly excitable belligerence, as Zelensky – patiently and without discourtesy – stands his ground.

It was Trump and Vance, not Zelensky, who were disrespectful, a point European leaders, who rallied behind Zelensky, made in the subsequent hours.

Trump may be the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, but Zelensky is the president of a large nation too, albeit one in a desperately weak position.

Trump’s behaviour revealed not just contempt for Zelensky, but utter lack of concern for the victims of Russia’s invasion. The egregious criminality of the invasion itself, and Russia’s conduct since – targeting of civilian populations, deporting thousands of Ukrainian children to Russia, gross violations of the Geneva Conventions regarding the treatment of prisoners of war (including the castration of teenage soldiers) were the furthest things from Trump’s mind. All he wanted was a deal that favoured US interests in exploiting Ukrainian critical minerals.

In dealing with a fellow world leader who stood in his way, Trump behaved less like an American president than a Roman emperor dressing down a visiting barbarian chieftain.

The issue to which Zelensky repeatedly returned – both in the Oval Office and, at greater length, in his interview with Brett Baier on Fox News immediately afterwards – was the necessity, as part of the overall deal with America concerning the joint exploitation of Ukraine’s critical minerals, of a US “security guarantee”. No such guarantee was part of the agreement which Zelensky left unsigned.

Earlier in the week, when they made separate visits to the White House, both UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer and French President Emmanuel Macron, had also spoken of the need of US security guarantees (or a “US backstop”, in Starmer’s words).

Trump has given no indication to any of them that the US would provide any form of security guarantee, instead promising the presence of US companies on the ground in Ukraine to exploit its minerals, would be enough to deter Putin.

When Zelensky insisted to Trump that Putin was not to be trusted, Trump – evidently taking offence on Putin’s behalf – told him that while Putin may have lied to Obama and to Biden, he wouldn’t lie to him. On such flimsy hopes do the future peace of Europe now depend.

Can NATO survive Trump?

 

Although a security guarantee is, for Zelensky, the sine qua non of any deal with the United States, even if Trump were to relent and offer one, what use would it be? Trump is no less a pathological liar than Putin.

A security guarantee from Trump would not be worth the paper it is written on, particularly since – as was obvious from his confrontation with Zelensky – Trump’s sympathies lie with Putin anyway.

One immediate result of the meeting was the Republican Party rallying behind Trump. Most ominously, influential South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham – who, although close to Trump, was seen as one of Zelensky’s few Republican allies on Capitol Hill – was swift to condemn Zelensky for disrespecting Trump, and call for his resignation. Republicans have never much liked Zelensky. After this debacle, they will begin to demonise him.

Of deepest concern is what now happens to NATO. Its support for Zelensky has been, and remains, steadfast. (So, to Anthony Albanese’s credit, has been Australia’s.)

So far, talk of the European democracies deploying armed personnel to Ukraine has been limited to policing a ceasefire. If there is a ceasefire policed by European boots on the ground, what happens if it is breached and fighting breaks out between Russian and NATO troops? It seems hardly likely that Trump would, in those circumstances, commit America to armed conflict with Russia.

If the war continues without further American support, Europe’s limited capacity to continue to arm Ukraine makes it very likely that Russia will prevail.

When, last Monday, I published a column in this masthead asking if NATO would survive Donald Trump, and quoted an old remark of Kevin Rudd’s that Trump was a traitor to the West, I wondered if I had gone too far.

In the breakneck speed at which the global order is re-sorting itself, with Trump’s America abandoning allies and embracing autocrats, it seems I did not go far enough.

George Brandis

Former high commissioner to the UK and federal attorney-general

George Brandis is a former high commissioner to the UK and a former Liberal senator and federal attorney-general. He is now a professor at ANU.

[rgmwa]

Zelenskyy has just issued this statement, but unfortunately I doubt whether Trump or Vance will bother to read it:

 

Here is President Zelenskyy's full statement expressing gratitude to the United States...

We are very grateful to the United States for all the support. I’m thankful to President Trump, Congress for their bipartisan support, and American people. Ukrainians have always appreciated this support, especially during these three years of full-scale invasion.

America’s help has been vital in helping us survive, and I want to acknowledge that. Despite the tough dialogue, we remain strategic partners. But we need to be honest and direct with each other to truly understand our shared goals.

It’s crucial for us to have President Trump’s support. He wants to end the war, but no one wants peace more than we do. We are the ones living this war in Ukraine. It’s a fight for our freedom, for our very survival.

As President Reagan once said: ‘Peace is not just the absence of war.’ We’re talking about just and lasting peace – freedom, justice, and human rights for everyone. A ceasefire won’t work with Putin. He has broken ceasefires 25 times over the last 10 years. A real peace is the only solution.

We are ready to sign the minerals agreement, and it will be the first step toward security guarantees. But it’s not enough, and we need more than just that. A ceasefire without security guarantees is dangerous for Ukraine. We’ve been fighting for three years, and Ukrainian people need to know that America is on our side.

I cannot change Ukraine’s position on Russia. The Russians are killing us. Russia is the enemy, and that’s the reality we face. Ukraine wants peace, but it must be a just and lasting peace. For that, we need to be strong at the negotiation table. Peace can only come when we know we have security guarantees, when our army is strong, and our partners are with us.

We want peace. That’s why I came to the United States, and visited President Trump. The deal on minerals is just a first step toward security guarantees and getting closer to peace. Our situation is tough, but we can’t just stop fighting and not having guarantees that Putin will not return tomorrow.

It will be difficult without the US support. But we can’t lose our will, our freedom, or our people. We’ve seen how Russians came to our homes and killed many people. Nobody wants another wave of occupation. If we cannot be accepted to Nato, we need some clear structure of security guarantees from our allies in the US.

Europe is ready for contingencies and to help fund our large army. We also need the US role in defining security guarantees – what kind, what volume, and when. Once these guarantees are in place, we can talk with Russia, Europe, and the US about diplomacy. War alone is too long, and we don’t have enough weapons to push them out entirely.

When someone talks about losses, every single life matters. Russia invaded our homes, killed our people, and tried to erase us. This isn’t just about territories or numbers – it’s about real lives. That’s what we need everyone to understand.

I want the US to stand more firmly on our side. This is not just a war between our two countries; Russia brought this war on to our territory and into our homes. They are wrong because they disrespected our territorial integrity.

All Ukrainians want to hear a strong US position on our side. It’s understandable the US might look for dialogue with Putin. But the US has always spoken about ‘peace through strength’. And together we can take strong steps against Putin.

Our relationship with the American president is more than just two leaders; it’s a historic and solid bond between our peoples. That’s why I always begin with words of gratitude from our nation to the American nation.

American people helped save our people. Humans and human rights come first. We’re truly thankful. We want only strong relations with America, and I really hope we will have them.

Edited March 1 by rgmwa

[Jerry_Atrick]

10 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I am devestated. I thought Trump had a cunning plan, like in Blackadder. Now I know he is a total f…wit. And about the minerals, I did some more reading, there aren’t any. It was all BS.

Yeah - I do remember someone saying somthing like "just wait - good things will come from Trump".. or words to that effect. Not meaning to rub your nose in it, but I still struggle to fathom why intelligent people were so sucked in by him. Is it just bias against the others, or is it something more?

 

9 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

In the meantime, console yourselves by watching the rainbow Mardi Gras prance down Oxford Street Sydney.

So, you would rather have the new world order of Trump than a parade celebrating al alternate, but largely harmless segment of the population?  Yeah - like every segment of the population, they have their evil bastards.. but are they more likely than others to commit? For the record, I was molested by a "straight" bloke who was an assistant coach of the footy team, and continuously beaten to a pulp by another (not any of my blood relations). It happens with all walks of life, unfortunately.

 

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

disagree that Albo is bumbling. As I said earlier, Albo did declare Australia to be standing by Ukraine's side. Although I didn't hear Dutton say anything, I firmly hope that I am correct in thinking that he supported Albo's declaration. 

I can't post a direct link to the vid, so here it is: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-01/albanese-reiterates-support-for-ukraine-without-mentioning-trump/104998818

 

Hardly convincing, and a bit of waffle, to be honest. I did say he was unequivocal, but if I were in trenches and heard that, I may be hoisting the white flag. I didn't say Dutton was any better, but equally unequivocal. I never thought I would quote Sky News, but here ya go: https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/dutton-commends-ukraines-bravery-in-fight-against-murderous-dictator/video/0e5f7754467694c1b5b3d8990572eafa

 

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

I said that Australia is still concerned about the uncertainty of Trump's tariffs, which are due to come into effect next Wednesday, our time. Better to keep one's mouth shut until one knows if there is anything to say.

 

At the moment Albo has to deal with political point scoring arising from the movements of the Chinese navy. Where's the hullaballoo over the US nuclear sub arriving in Perth? Oh! There can't be any of that since SkyNews and the Conservative media are all for it.

Although small fry compared to Canada and the EU, Australia imports a touch north of twice as much in value than we export to the USA: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/southeast-asia-pacific/australia

 

Although this would not be huge in terms of the US economy, we can do a Canada and tell the to FO.. Here is a map of the products we import from and export to the US: https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/usa/partner/aus

 

Let's look at some of those items that we import that we can slap tariffs on (https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/usa/partner/aus😞

• Gold (5% of the imports from the US). Surely we can make or process our own?
• Cars (4.5%): According to the RACV, the only segment in which US brands, let alone US made cars was in the top sellers, was in the EV market, where Tesla reigned supreme. However, beofre Musk took a torch to the Tesla brand with his antics, sales were already tanking (pardon the pun) with the Chinese catching up. Chucking retaliatory tariffs on the already taxed to the hilt car consumers isn't going to make that muck of a difference to the average Aussie car buyer.
• Delivery Trucks - 4.2%.. I imagine these are the bigger trucks like Kenworth, Mac, Ford, Western Star. These could be replaced wit Volvo, Scania, and DAF (although there would be no long nosed trucks in that list). Volvo Trucks is now Chinese owned.  Again, there are alternatives, and very good ones at that if YT is to be believed.
• Planes, Helicopters and Spacecraft: Not sure what spacecraft we import, but from Boeing down to Vans, there are more than capable European substitutes.

I am guessing it is the same with many other of the things we import - we can either make them ourselves or we can import from Europe. OK.. the question then becomes, is Europe a strong enough ally to piss the USA off? I don't know, to be honest.. But if they are, or we feel that the USA is no longer a strong enough security ally, then should Chump put tariffs on us, we should retaliate back.. they have more to lose than us, and he has so far shown himself to back down from a fight. Although, in our case, we may not be big enough to worry him, in which case, fine.. let's look elsewhere, and maybe putting tariffs on will spur us to be more self sufficeint econcomically.

 

I would suggest the "political point scoring" by the Chinese navy was much more. They were testing our responses, and well, they were found pretty well wanting. I haven't read or seem too much about it, bui the fact the ADF didn't know they were there is quite alarming. They are not that hard to find and track. I see a real urgency to shake the ADF up quite a bit, from procurement to delivery to operational readiness. It should be a clarion  call to bolster our defence efficiently. We should dump AUKUS immediately.. we have shown with Collins class subs we can beat the yanks with their nule submarines at war games (I have posted a RAN released vid on these forums some time ago). We need to invest in modern warefare and surveillance; where were our signals guys?

 

This means aircraft, ships, subs, land vehicles, the weapons (including drones of and unamanned delivery of wapeons of varuous types), advanced use of AI, etc.

 

Dare I say, we need to also have deterrents? We can't rely on the US and we can't rely on Europe. We can only rely on ourselves. We have the resources; we have the know how of all of the above; we need the political will.

Edited March 1 by Jerry_Atrick

[Marty_d]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

So would you be if you were molested by a poofta, at six years of age. I found out many years later molesting young boys ran in his family, brothers, cousins ... one was arrested recently, he was a descendant from those original fags. I never forgot their surname, just in case a cop ever asked me at a later stage.  

Sorry to hear about that happening to you, it's disgusting and I believe all proven paedos should be chemically castrated.

Paedophilia is different to homosexuality though. Whether a paedo is attracted to boys or girls, the issue is that they're attracted to children.

Gay people are the same as straight people, attracted to adults.

You said yourself - "descended from those original fags" - if they were gay, why did they breed? Sounds like there was abuse going on within the family too which normalized paedo behavior.

[nomadpete]

 

2 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

We can't rely on the US and we can't rely on Europe. We can only rely on ourselves. We have the resources; we have the know how of all of the above; we need the political will.

 

Thank you Wolfie.

 

Shall we send another case?

[Jerry_Atrick]

Without tariffs, pls ;-)

[red750]

[red750]

[facthunter]

 TWO BULLIES shouting  at one bloke who's responding in his THIRD LANGUAGE to A stage managed "WE are the ONES in charge with ALL the CARDS. Make Good TV Coverage" quote. It was a SET UP ambush Disgusting and for ALL to see forever. USA reptation suffers IRREPAIRABLE damage MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.?  NOT this way. 

Quote

 

Quote

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

A month in to this despots 4 year term and the entire world now knows what they already knew but seemed a bit afraid to admit. Trump is a clown, a complete f#$kwit, a malignant narcissist, 100% untrustworthy, a pathalogical liar, an ignoramus & got voted in by 33% of the eligible voters in the US. It will take some time but the US will become isolated if its once allies move away to form their own security pacts and alliances. Nato will morph into a European alliance and US bases in Europe and probably many countries around the globe will begin to disappear.

 

Trumps policies will increase inflation for the US populous and only the Billionaires will benefit. Bullying tactics and threats only work for a while and statements like acquiring Greenland, Canada & Panama & turning the Gaza strip into Trump land will be forgotten.

 

It will take some time but some of the cracks already evident will widen and fester and eventually there will not be enough new theatrical insulting performances to stop the rot and even though Trumps rusted on support base will keep the faith, mostly due to them being fed a diet of only Trump positive information through the right wing US media, it will not be enough.

 

Bear in mind that he got in with a very small margin much less than Bidens over him after the first term and the mid terms only 2 years away may see a shift in the senate and congress.

[nomadpete]

We might need a new thread "What Has Zelensky Done Today".

 

It would be a lot more uplifting than hearing more depressing stuff about what Dunny done.

 

It is refreshing to see and hear Zelensky speak (well, it is when he is permitted to finish a sentence).

 

He represents what I wish our politicians had more of. He stood up to a bully. Even though english is not his primary language, his words are measured, rational, and consistent. He is far more understandable and unambiguous than most politicians.

 

The recent exchange with trump was blown out of all proportion. After all, it was only about announcing a mineral deal being made under duress with america, who is more interested in profits than peace. That 'agreement' specifically excluded any commitment to brokering a lasting peace with security guarantees. So it wasn't about WW3. Neither USA nor Putin can be trusted to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine anyway (or anywhere they have mines).

 

[old man emu]

Let's try to find some escape route for the USA.

 

In Australia, if a government acted in the way that Trump has acted in the USA, our Constitution has a means of putting that government out of office. Our Constitution allows for the Monarch to end the reign of a government and then throw the formation of a new government back to the electorate - The Dismissal. Then it's up to the electorate to return the dismissed government, or to install another one.

 

Impeachment is the only way to remove a President, but the steps to do that are complex. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. So the first step is to convict these people of the described offences. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is a term that was commonly used when the Constitution was written. It was used to describe crimes committed by people in positions of authority who abuse their power to avoid justice. The recent ruling of the US Supreme Court giving the President indemnity could make that difficult.

 

But if Trump, Vance and their administration were impeached, what would replace them? It is clear that the framers of the Constitution never envisaged the current situation. Not doubt they thought that there would only be the need to deal with one person at a time, eg Nixon. Such a massive impeachment would be akin to a political revolution. The impeachments would be the means of restoring the Ship of State to an even keel. I do believe that the Americans would continue to have themselves governed by an unchanged Constitution.

 

The First American Civil War mainly arose out of the economics of slavery. We know that tentacles of economics wrap themselves around many things affecting the lives of the people, but it is common to assign the cause of that civil war to different attitudes to slavery as a blanket reason. It is possible that there could be a Second American Civil War? I think not, because those who previously supported Trump are the ones who seem to be suffering the most as a result of his manifesto. There does not seem to be as much anger directed towards those who did not support Trump. Perhaps the civil war might not be fought amongst the common people, but would be like the French Revolution where the common people rose up against the ruling class. 

[facthunter]

TAKE MY Word. That PERFORMANCE  STAGED for ALL to see is a "SIGNAL" EVENT exposing AMERCA for what it is. A profit Crazed MAFIA with no concern for Previous ALLIES MONEY is THEIR GOD AND BUGGER THOSE who DARE to stand in Our way. Vance SAID, IT's TRUMPS WORLD NOW.  GEEZ IF Hitler had only Known It was THAT  easy. Nev

[facthunter]

After the Debacle of the LAST with holding of Supply and Arranging a Dismissal, I doubt THAT STUNT will ever be attempted AGAIN  It was frequently alleged the CIA was Involved in it. Records available after the requisite time didn't Put Her Majesty's Part in it in a good light but maybe her "Handlers " didn't give her the full Picture.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Here is an interesting, passionate, and detailed reaction to voters saying when they voted for Chump, they didn't vote for Chump: 

 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

What security guarantees is Zelensky seeking from the US for peace for Ukraine? Biden sent funds and weapons, as did Europe and Australia, but they have only prolonged the conflict and killed tens of thousands of Ukrainians plus destroyed buildings and infrastructure. How was this going to save Ukraine? Albanese keeps saying he supports Ukraine, but what does that mean exactly? He'll support it to the last Ukrainian, and them invite him to come to OZ as a refugee? No one seems to know how this war is supposed to end in favour of Ukraine. What was the end result supposed to look like with European and Australian warmongers supplying Ukraine with weapons and moral support? Does anyone know?

Edited March 2 by Grumpy Old Nasho

[rgmwa]

Zelenskyy wants Trump to guarantee that when Putin inevitably breaks whatever agreement they eventually sign up to (as he has done with past agreements), the US will stand with NATO and other allies including Australia, and defend Ukraine against Putin's treachery. That might mean providing more arms and ammunition, cash and possibly to participate in supplying peacekeeping forces. The problem is that Trump is on Putin's side, so it's not going to happen.

The end result of the war was supposed to be to get the Russians out of Ukraine, which doesn't seem like a lot to ask for provided your name isn't Putin.  Unlike Biden, Trump is not interested in making sure the war ends in Ukraine's favour. He wants Putin to come out ahead because he wants to do deals with Russia. As far as Trump is concerned Ukraine is just a roadblock that he wants to get out of the way.

Edited March 2 by rgmwa

[Marty_d]

Do you believe in common decency and the right to NOT be invaded GON?

 

The war is supposed to end with Russia withdrawing to it's OWN territory and paying reparations to Ukraine for the loss of lives and property.

Any other way, and Putin will just do it again.

 

To put it simply. Putin is that horrible bully who beats up other kids and steals their lunch money. Ukraine has stood up to him and punched him in the nose. The bully is surprised but still trying to use his bigger size to beat up Ukraine and not only steal its lunch money but also its bike.

The other neighbourhood kids are standing round watching. Some, like Orban and now Trump, see personal gain in the bully winning.  Other, more decent and intelligent kids, know that if the bully wins here then he's going to steal their lunch money eventually.

The ONLY way they are all safe is to stand together against that bully, but Trump for base personal gain (and spite for Zelenskyy not doing him a grubby personal favour last time) has walked away from the other kids and is trying to help the bully win.

 

Let me know if this is too complicated.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

1 hour ago, Marty_d said:

Do you believe in common decency and the right to NOT be invaded GON?

Yes, but politicians don't. I found that out in the late 60s, and 70s. No decency, no humanity, no remorse, no apology, no compensation, no feelings, and totally unemotional. Decency and rights are traits our politicians sweep under the carpet, then walk all over it.

[facthunter]

Putins PLAN is one of DOMINATION by FORCE. Much the SAME as Trumps. PUTIN  murders his opponents wherever they are. Because he HAS TO being a DICTATOR and not an Elected Legitimate leader. No one really WANTS him to run their country except Opportunistic and Propagandised Russians who stand to benefit in HIS corrupt REGIME of rich Oligarchs. who WEAPONISE EVERYTHING  Just Like er..AMERICA. IF Trump Delivers to the Americans WHATEVER HE does  AND HOWEVER HE does it will be OK?  He's JUST said exactly THAT. IF the PEOPLE of the USA rise up against TRUMP He will be LIKE PUTIN. Oppress them. Think IT can't happen? Enjoy your STAY in CLOUD CUCKOO LAND. IT will cost US the EARTH..  Nev

Edited March 2 by facthunter

[old man emu]

7 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Yes, but politicians don't.

We are only interested in what your belief is, not the beliefs of politicians. As a great man said only a few days ago, "don't try to dictate what others feel".

[red750]

Trump is like a looter who goes around homes damaged by fire and flood and stealing what few possessions the victims have left.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

16 minutes ago, old man emu said:

We are only interested in what your belief is, not the beliefs of politicians. As a great man said only a few days ago, "don't try to dictate what others feel".

Well I said "Yes", which means I would be doing all I could do to stop the killing.

 

Ukraine is a buffer zone for Russia. Zelensky should have negotiated with Putin on that basis and fought for as much autonomy as possible for Ukraine, and concessions even if it meant sacrificing some democracy. Cuddling up to the West is the worst thing he has done, look whats happened to Ukraine, tens of thousands killed and homes and infrastructure demolished. Only Trump gives a damn about that, he wants it to end. The UK, Europe and Australia sit back, throw more fuel on the fire to kill even more Ukrainians and destroy more homes and infrastructure. It's a catch22, and to get out of it, Zelensky has to give. Putin won't, Trump won't, and the Europeans won't, nor will the UK or Australia. Zelensky needs to, right now, take the best pragmatic offer he can get, before Trump directs US forces to invade Ukraine, with Putins permission, sacks Zelensky, and prevent the conflict escalating beyond control.   

[old man emu]

29 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Zelensky should have negotiated with Putin on that basis and fought for as much autonomy as possible for Ukraine

The Ukrainians ARE fighting to restore and maintain their autonomy after Russia launched an unprovoked invasion the intention of which was to wrest the autonomy of Ukrainian lands from the people. 

 

There are no ifs or buts or maybes. Russia attacked and Ukraine defends until it can repel.

 

33 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

and concessions even if it meant sacrificing some democracy.

Hey Fellas! GON has just given us carte blanche to enter his home and take whatever we want from it. He'll even let us throw him out on the street.