Dutton's Folly (nuclear power)

[onetrack]

I'm not buying an EV for at least 3 years, because in 3 years time, the current crop of EV's will look like Model T Fords, such is the rapid pace of EV development.

[spacesailor]

All those electronic gizmo's. I will  never use .

Not even the radio .

My Pajero has the media package and three remotes .

Never used them . Perhaps I should remove the batteries. 

One day .

I hate that braking thing , were a wheel has it's brake applied to spin the car in circles , whenever on sand . I was told " remove the fuse " just never found which fuse .

Aaspacesailor

[rgmwa]

More like ten to fifteen years for me. By that time development may have matured, range increased to make long distance driving easy and stress-free, charging stations available everywhere with five minutes from dead flat to full charge, and prices come down to reasonable levels. Re-sale value of current EV’s must generally be near re-cycling levels. 

[pmccarthy]

Australia will have an intermittent and unreliable electricity supply, so EVs will become less useful.

[facthunter]

You can't fill petrol either if there's no Power. Nev

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

Australia will have an intermittent and unreliable electricity supply, so EVs will become less useful.

At the rate that our governments are dithering, you are probably right.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I have 8.5 kW of solar panels connected to the grid. I use as much of the solar energy as I can & the rest (up to a maximum of 5kW) is exported to the grid. This is how most household solar systems work. The problem is that should the grid fail & there is a power outage I can't use the power still being produced by the panels. This was a fundamental decision by the energy suppliers and retailers to maintain control. Now of course with batteries that control is slowly being eroded.

 

I don't have a home battery so I have to hook the car up when the power goes out. At present i don't have any V2H or V2G capability so just use a 15 amp extension cable to run the fridge, freezer, lights, TV etc till the power comes back on. V2H & V2G is now legal but at present the cost to install the hardware and software connected to your system at home is prohibitive. The maximum current that can be drawn from the car battery is 32 amps or 7.4kW & is single phase. Vehicles & houses with 3 phase supply have a maximum of 11kW.

 

My car is always charged from the solar panels so at least I have free fuel for motoring and when there is a power failure it only takes 5 minutes to hook up the essentials. This is not as ideal as a V2H system that automates this or V2G where it would also automate export (& import) to/from the grid.

[nomadpete]

KG, a possible affordable solution for you:-

 

Get a sparky in to separate 'essential' power points & lighting circuits. Get him to set those up with a Emergency Manual switch - to a 15A power input (caravan plug).

 

This will allow me to leave my genset near the meter box, and when the power goes down I switch over, start the genny, and the lights, fridge, TV all work. (Within the 15A maximum)

The A/C and oven will not.

 

I can give you an idea of cost after mine is finished. The sparky is busy over xmas.

[nomadpete]

In your case, you should be able to run your 15A extension lead from your EV to the meter box. Much easier than running extension leads into the house and to each appliance you want to use.

[facthunter]

IF you are not careful you'll electrocute someone when there's a Blackout..  Nev

[nomadpete]

12 minutes ago, facthunter said:

IF you are not careful you'll electrocute someone when there's a Blackout..  Nev

When properly set up, the changeover switch isolates the street side wiring and only activates the normal internal house power.

 

The pic is what we have at the Fire Station.

 

Obviously it must be installed by a registered electrical contractor.

 

[spacesailor]

" REGISTERED ELECTRICIAN ".

Can't even get them to Install an ' Earth Leakage Breaker ' .

It must be beyond their training .

spacesailor 

[kgwilson]

4 hours ago, nomadpete said:

KG, a possible affordable solution for you:-

 

Get a sparky in to separate 'essential' power points & lighting circuits. Get him to set those up with a Emergency Manual switch - to a 15A power input (caravan plug).

 

This will allow me to leave my genset near the meter box, and when the power goes down I switch over, start the genny, and the lights, fridge, TV all work. (Within the 15A maximum)

The A/C and oven will not.

 

I can give you an idea of cost after mine is finished. The sparky is busy over xmas.

I can easily do all that myself as I once was an electrical engineer. I installed my EVSE myself & all it cost was 12 metres of 6mm TPS and a RCCB (residual current circuit breaker). Total cost under $90.00. An electrician quoted me (under 10 metres and through 1 wall only $600.00. Over 10 metres more than 1 wall away from $1000.00 to $1,500.00 depending on complexity. The V2H & V2G solutions automate everything including the solar so power will flow from solar to the car or house or grid and vice versa

 

I have done similar to yours for running 3 x 11 kVA generators and distributing the load at our SES shed. This time though I designed the system & a sparky installed it. Very simple & no power factor to consider. I separated all power points lighting, water heating, stoves etc based on load with 3 position circuit breakers & isolator switches for each. Nothing to plug or unplug. Just fire up the generators when the power goes out and flip the switches & the same when the power comes back & then just go to the shed & turn the generators off.

 

Automating the process

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, kgwilson said:

I can easily do all that myself as I once was an electrical engineer.

With all due respect, I point out (for readers) the fact that an engineer is not permitted to do domestic electrical work - unless they happen to also be a currently licenced electrical contractor.

 

I'm not arguing the merit of the items involved. Just the legal responsibilities involved.

3 hours ago, kgwilson said:

The V2H & V2G solution

Was mentioned by you as being expensive but they are comprehensive and simple for a consumer to safely utilise.

 

I agree, as you are aware ( but didn'tmention), there are more cost effective solutions (such as mine).

 

I have 30 years experience in the power industry. I am not a licenced electrical contractor although I am capable - as you might be - to do the work at least as well as a contractor, but I choose to do it the legal way.

 

Liability is a bitch.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:02 AM by nomadpete

[onetrack]

If you set up your own stand-alone electrical system, without any connection to the grid, does it still have to be installed by a licenced electrician?

[old man emu]

8 hours ago, onetrack said:

If you set up your own stand-alone electrical system, without any connection to the grid, does it still have to be installed by a licenced electrician?

My guess is: Yes. Simply because a 240V electrical system can kill in a number of ways.

[nomadpete]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

If you set up your own stand-alone electrical system, without any connection to the grid, does it still have to be installed by a licenced electrician?

Yes. All mains wiring must be terminated by a licenced electrical contractor.

[facthunter]

Not if you aren't connected in the first place. 240 Volt is much more dangerous than 110. Lots of people were dying by being electrocuted till  leak detecting CB's were compulsory.  Now you hardly ever hear of one. ALL electrical systems should be signed off by a STATE qualified Electrician whether on the grid or not. It's easy to get fires if it deteriorates and connections (Joins) should be avoided  when possible, . Most people don't have multimeters and could not safely rewire a 3 pin Plug..  Nev

[old man emu]

I think that you have to get the 240V wiring in a caravan or RV signed off by a qualified electrician.

[kgwilson]

There are plenty of qualified Electricians who in my opinion are not competent. The cables in the ceiling of my house were loose and all over the place when I bought the place new. Some of this was caused by the insulation installers and some by the Electrician. Switches, sockets & junction boxes were generally OK but some showed bare wire as the stripped end was too long and not doubled or twisted when clamped down with the grub screws. Then the cables behind the meter and distribution board were  a birds nest though all connected correctly. I always ensure everything is neat and nicely looped.

 

I first became interested in electrical stuff when I worked for my flatmate Electrician in London in 1973-74 as a Sparky's mate. We rewired a row of 5 story Victorian mansions behind Kensington Palace. I got to know the certifiers & I signed a lot of the Final Inspection forms even though they knew I was not the boss.

[nomadpete]

The Australian  Electrical Office is pretty tough. They can impose fines up to $20,000 for electrical work done by a non qualified person (business fines are very severe).

 

In theory, any time any work is done, the electrician must supply a certificate of compliance describing the work done.

In my recent experience,  they didn't.  But the other thing is if there is a fire you might find your insurance is on shakey ground.

[nomadpete]

It is illegal here to do anything electrical, except replace a light bulb or a smoke alarm battery.

 

No replacing 3 pin plugs.

No making an extension leads.

No replacing a switch.

No replacing a power outlet.

No touchy the wires!

 

 

Etc, etc.

[facthunter]

IF you  check the "Sparky" has done it correctly, don't mention it.. As a callow youth I worked with a qualified relative rewiring old houses and Servicing Lifts. When I wired my workshop I had him check it. He said It's easy to see a professional DIDN'T do this! I said why? He said It's TOO Neat.  Nev

[spacesailor]

Those tags on extension leads , plus new home made , can have a SES certified tag appllied  .

They had a member sit a test to qualify , for that job .

spacesailor

[onetrack]

After further investigation, it appears, yes, you must have electrical installations installed by a licenced electrician, even if they are completely independent of the grid.

Australian/NZ Standards apply, and some States have specific requirements that depart from the AS/NZ Standards or override them.

There are distinctions between Extra Low Voltage (ELV), Low Voltage (LV) and High Voltage (HV) installations. Even ELV installations require licenced electrical installer oversight. The only exception is 12V and 24V DC wiring.