Enough is enough!

[old man emu]

I usually listen to the 7:00 am ABC news on the radio when I get up in the morning. I've had enough of every morning hearing that the Israelis have attacked a site which is allegedly (on their word) harboring terrorists, but inevitably the attacks result in the deaths of non-combatants. Worse still is the continued devastation of the non-combatants in Gaza, culminating in the deaths of newborn babies from hypothermia - freezing to death - due to lack of shelter and heating.

 

The Allies strung up hundreds of Germans after WWII for crimes against humanity, especially against Jews. Now the descendants of those Jews are inflicting the same or worse on another ethnic group. The behaviour of the Israeli Government and its military wing might end one day, but the memory will never fade.  However, there is not one of those former Allies who is prepared to cry, "Enough!". 

 

Where is the social conscience of our Government and Opposition leaders. I agree that terrorists and their mode d'emploi  must be quashed, but what does Israel hold over the heads of the rest of the World that prevents nations from speaking out? The silence can only indicate that the lack of moral fibre in our government. So much for teaching our children that bullying is unacceptable!

[facthunter]

Albanese has joined the United Nations, the ICC and the Majority of the rest of the World. and has been unrelentingly pilloried by the Murdoch Press and the LNP for it..Netanyahu has attacked the Labor party viciously for their actions. Nev

[old man emu]

I forgot about that. Maybe Albo should have yelled a bit louder. Australian imports from Israel was US$547.01 Million during 2023. That's not a lot. Maybe we could place an embargo on all foodstuffs coming from there.

 

More importantly we stop this:  In February 2024 alone Australia directly exported over $1.5 million in ‘arms and ammunition’ to Israel.

 

Greens Senator and Defence Spokesperson David Shoebridge said: “Make no mistake the Albanese Labor Government by permitting these exports to Israel is complicit in the genocide that is occurring. Each of these exports requires the express consent of the Australian government.

 

Once again, the dollar is mightier than morality.

[facthunter]

The Greens attack Labor regularly. Lately they have woken up to the Possibility it might help Dutton get elected and they have CHANGED their tactics a bit..  LABOR is low hanging fruit.

  Not ALL Jews like Netanyahu. HE is supported by the extreme right wing, mainly and will probably be before the Court  IF this fighting stopped on other matters. An embargo on imports from Israel therefore would be foolish in the Circumstances and create large internal ructions' with the powerful Jewish lobby here. Nev

[gareth lacey]

There is no genocide .

[old man emu]

18 minutes ago, gareth lacey said:

There is no genocide .

That's true. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part. It does not include political groups.

 

However, while there might not be the intent to annihilate the Palestinians, the destruction of the terrorist organisations is being carried out with complete disregard to the safety and welfare of people not involved in those organisations. 

[facthunter]

We only get pretty much one side of it  all, here. In that context we can't expect much difference. Albo copped a lashing even with the Moderate steps he's taken. Netanyahu DEMANDS TOTAL commitment  and  agreement with his outrageous behaviour no matter what death and destruction he leaves everywhere he goes. He stifles information and targets Journalists. Bad show.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I agree.. enough is enough.. but what has to happen to stop it. As usual everyone is piling it on Israel.. 

 

Who took the action to target 100% civilians in a country that clearly delineate civilian and military populations? And knowing (and arguably desiring) the response that was to come- not a response that targets civilians, but targets the combatants who do what? Hide behind civilians.

 

Don't forget, Palestinians we're given in today's money billions to build a country and they chose tunnels and enriching their PLO and then Hamas elite.. and allegedly hide behind their civilian populations waging a war of terror. And what do you think will happen if Israel move out and allow Hamas to re-arm? My guess is this will never end.

 

As far as I am aware there have Been quite a few ceasefire demands on the table... and Israel's conditions are generally two: return the hostages and Hamas to disarm.. 

 

Yes.. it has to stop.. but tell me any country in the same position  that would react differently.. So when saying something has to be done, look at the root cause.

 

Also 500,000 Yemenis, 300,000 Syrians, and how many Africans and what does the world do or say about it? De Nada. I can't help but think Strip out religion and a lot of problems would go away

 

Edited Thursday at 06:40 AM by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

The Root cause was establishing a dedicated Jewish state on Palestinian land in the first place. 1948. The middle east was always going to be a place of great potential contest. Wahabi is the most radical of all Islamics. (Saudia) Bin Laden wanted the US out of HIS Country. Fair enough one would think.. US calls it "OUR OIL". Gives the green light for Iraq to invade IRAN. then drives them back in a turkey shoot.Then invades Iraq under false pretences and support ISRAEL to the Hilt. and pulls out of the Iranian Nuclear inspection deal and applies severe sanctions to the Country, shoots down a civilian Airbus A300 (by Mistake?) and Trump assassinates a prominent Military figure within IRAN, extra judicially. What a Mess. Iran took millions of refugees from Afghanistan. What a mess that place is now. They fight with abandoned US weaponry and women have no right to a decent education or job.. America originally Backed the Mujahedeen to oust the Russians. No wonder Putin is not friendly to the West.Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I was expecting that response.. countries are changing all the time.. why is the establishment if a Jewish stare different to the establishment of, oh, I dunno, Australia or the USA or Canada or New Zealand.. Yet, apart from the fringes of society, I don't see anyone in a mad rush to hand back the land lock stock and barrell to the indigenous populations...  anything to do with it being a Jewish state that makes it different? Look at Kosovo.. previously a Christian enclave only changed to a Muslim state in the 90s if you want to use the passage of time as an argument..  no one is out there saying hand it back to the Christians..

 

I'll tell you one difference..  the Jews legitimately  purchased a lot of the land they were to later lay claim to their country- and started in the 1800s.. so to quote all Palestinian land as people think.. or are told.. isn't quite accurate, either..but I don't recall evidence of the other occupations I listed resulting from purchasing land legitimately, either.. and while we're at it, how many are calling for California to be returned to Mexico?

 

The Nakbah? Well the narrative is Arabs we're forced off their land.. and they were.. but different sides will tell different stories - the Arabs us it was the Jews; the Jews say they were happy for the Arabs to stay if they laid down their weapons but chose not to; then I hear Mossab Youssef (I think  that's his name), the son of a Hamas founder say the Arab armies told or ordered Arabs off the land and they could return when the Arab armies defeated the Jews. Which didn't happen. Who to believe? I don't know .

 

But I agree the root cause is institutionalised religion; get rid of that and a lot of the worlds problems go away.. But that isn't going to happen any time soon

 

In terms of the current problem, like it or not Israel is a sovereign country, recognised internationally, and is by no means the youngest. So the root cause, has now moved.. sort that out and  you will have peace.

 

Not sure what oil has to do with this one.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 07:56 AM by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

It's actions must able to be criticised and condemned where it's appropriate. ANY criticism is called as ANTISEMETIC. THAT way EVERYTHING the IDF do is OK and cannot be criticised.. Information is forcibly  restricted..Is all that OK? Netanyahu very publicly criticising Albanese's vote. We ARE an Elected government too..Nev

[onetrack]

Let's get back to the basic problem. Islam is a form of Cancer. Radical Islam is the worst form of Cancer. Radical Islam believes it is O.K. to kidnap innocent civilians, hold them hostage, torture them, and even murder them - all in the name of advancing the Islamic religion. Remember Islam is politics and religion rolled up into one, and constant murder of innocents is their forte.

The radical Islamics will utilise any ideology to advance Islam, including Marxism, Leninism, and any other radical, anti-establishment grouping that supports terrorism to overthrow established civilisations.

 

The Islamic God, Allah, is a murderer, he tells them to kill people in the name of advancing Islam. They even kill other Islamic adherents when they consider they're being heretical, by starting a new division of Islam. Muhammad, the founder of Islam, was a warmongerer and a murder. Muhammad was involved in no less than 86 warmongering campaigns. We can perhaps more accurately pronounce the name Muhammad, by accenting the last three letters of his name.

 

Doctors try their best to cure patients with Cancer. They cut out tumours and treat Cancer patients with highly dangerous drugs to try and save their lives. Despite their best efforts, the Doctors often kill good cells, good tissues - and even sometimes kill the patients trying to cure the Cancer. This happens because the Cancer is ingrained in the body, in the cells, and despite the best and cleverest medical research and innovation, Cancer continues to persist and return on a regular basis.

 

Benjamin Netanyahu believes Islam is a Cancer. He lost his brother Yonatan at Entebbe, where Yonatan led Israeli Special Forces that rescued civilian hostages on a hijacked civilian aircraft, from Islamic militants. The Sayeret Matkal saved 102 civilian hostages lives from Islamic murderers, with 4 hostages killed. The greatest number of hijacked aircraft have been hijacked by Islamic militants.

 

Benjamin Netanyahu is a crusader against terrorism - and especially Islamic terrorism. He is a Cancer Doctor, trying to destroy as much of the Islamic Cancer as he can. Unfortunately, innocents are being killed in his attempt to root out that Cancer.

I believe Benjamin Netanyahu should be supported and encouraged to continue his drive to root out the Cancer of Islam, because it is rearing its ugly head again, in many places on this planet, and 2025 is already starting off as a year of increased Islamic terrorism.

 

https://answering-islam.org/BehindVeil/btv2.html

 

Edited yesterday at 12:39 AM by onetrack
addendum link....

[old man emu]

8 minutes ago, onetrack said:

He is a Cancer Doctor, trying to destroy as much of the Islamic Cancer as he can

Cancer doctors concentrate on the cancer itself. They don't cut off your legs to deal with a cancer in your lung. 

 

I can see that there will never be agreement amongst us here. Those who have an opinion have expressed it. It we keep the topic open, we will simply continue to chase our tails. Perhaps we should close this thread.

[facthunter]

I don't blame Dog for ANYTHING that happens. Keep him/her, It out of government and we will ALL be better off. In the name of some god or other the most heinous of Crimes against humanity are justified. EVERY LIFE is to be respected, not just those who look and think like you.  We all bleed when we are Injured .Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Why close the thread? Let me have my say.

 

We over think things, and we often blame others for ruthlessness without looking at ourselves first.

 

A teacher in Sydney being dragged away to worship the God of Capitalism (not democracy). William White, non-complying conscript.

White eventually conceded and did military service, but others were jailed and when we finally woke up to ourselves, they were released.

 

There were atrocities committed in war zones we have gone to, some by Aussies, we don't like to think about that, they just could never be as bad as others around the world. We are gentle souls, we wouldn't hurt a fly. Tell that to the families of Vietnamese and Afghan victims who were shot in cold blood, all recorded in one form or another, but we self-censor them out of our minds. I don't blame the Israelis for anything, because I refuse to throw stones when the first stone needs to be banged against our heads.

[pmccarthy]

I welcome the Israeli actions and wish them complete victory.

[facthunter]

Just HOW would that Happen PMcC and would there be unintended consequences or unknown consequential risks?  Is MIGHT  (death and Destruction) the answer.? Nev

[pmccarthy]

If a country is at war, then their aim should be to win. I believe in right and wrong, and that some regimes are evil. 

[pmccarthy]

When asked why deputies shot a criminal 61 times, Brevard County Sherrif replied "Evil can never be dead enough." Same with Houthis, Hamas and Hesbollah.

[Jerry_Atrick]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

It's actions must able to be criticised and condemned where it's appropriate. ANY criticism is called as ANTISEMETIC. THAT way EVERYTHING the IDF do is OK and cannot be criticised.. Information is forcibly  restricted..Is all that OK? Netanyahu very publicly criticising Albanese's vote. We ARE an Elected government too..Nev

Of course it's not anti-semetic to criticise the IDF< Israel, or Netanyahu. What is anti-semetic is when a Jewish state seems to be singled out to have to hold a higher form of morality than an islamic or Christian state. And that is what I am trying to call out.

 

Where was the mass civilian outrage and open prejudice against Russian diaspora when Russia, unprovoked invaded Ukraine and targeted civilians (scorched earth policy) and continues today - just last week didn't they strike a hospital? Hardly hear anything from the pollies these days, let alone the civilians. At least there was some political outrage, but not enough to actually properly sanction their war machine for , what, about a year or so... And even then the known circumvention's around the sanctions are yet to be plugged.

 

Where was the mass civilian and political outrage and the Yemeni/Saudi wars claimed over 500,000 civilian casualties of war each (including famine for Syria).. wars that seem to be about ethnic or tribal cleansing than a territorial gain.. I don't recall pollies saying too much other than it should stop. I certainly don't recall universities shutting down or Saudi/Yemeni/Syrian diaspora being openly discriminated.

 

And each of these countries clearly delineate their civilian and military infrastructure.. Yes, Syria was a civil war, and this was therefore not as cut and dry. but still the numbers were well over the current conflict. Fun fact.. each of the other wars claimed over 100K civilian lives per year. The Iran and Iraq war, which lasted 20 years and only finished when the US invaded Iraq and Iran hated the US more than Iraq.. how many civilians did that take with it.. As I recall over 1m, but it could have just been under 1m.. either way, if its 50K per year.. and yes, both countries clearly delineated their military and civilian population..  Even this war has fewer than any of those casualties. outright and per year, but if you go back to 1948,

 

And not long before 1948, the allies in WWII killed how many German civilians to get the job done? Oh, and not to mention the killing of how many citizens in Hiroshima and Nagasaki with WMDs being dropped after, yes, after the Japanese emperor communicated willingness to surrender or at least a cease fire. That is all OK, right?

 

And, I can go on.. Oh but the Jews evicted the Palestinians and this is different? Not quite, but again, even in Australia, we just voted down that didn't even guarantee a displaced population,  having a bigger and in no way definitive voice in how the government runs their affairs.. Yet, I don't recall Aboriginals willingly saying, Hey, whities, have our land... (that was my  point in the posts above).

 

Oh, but that was all years ago and Israel is much more recent.. Tell that to the displaced Christian Kosovans. And how much noise is made about that? None.. things change, people move on.

 

I could go on.

 

Yet, when a sovereign and democratic country has had war declared against it, by a militia that decided to target civilians at a civilian festival and the last remnants of the socialist structures of a kibbutz, where there have been alleged recordings of these combatants calling their mother and boasting about killing jews; where they were alleged to be atrocious and brutal about it (decapitating, sodomising, etc). and that attacked country responds like this:

• Informs the world and Gazans they are going to invade to get Hamas..
• Amass outside the gates to Gaza for a long time, I recall about 7 days, warning civilians to move to safer areas
• Enter Gaza and seek out Hamas who bunker where? Well, where the Civilians are (or at least where they forced them to stay, or as is being more commonly alleged, though I don't necessarily believe, civilians are willingly participating in.
• That before an operation they allegedly generally give a 10 minute warning of where they are going to strike to give civilians a chance to get out (what other country or fighting force does that?)
• They target where their intelligence says Hamas is hiding out, but Hamas make the decision to not delineate themselves from their civilian population and are alleged to force the civilians to remain as human shields, knowing full well they have engaged in a war with Israel..

 

Yet, despite all this, Israel still cops mass political and civilian process and their diaspora are openly targeted, including the Rippon Lea synagogue in Melbourne.. you know the one firebombed. Everyone who is calling for a ceasefire is really calling for Israel to stop. They have persistently said they are happy to stop withthe release of the hostages and the disarming of a world recognised terrorist organisation. How often do you hear of public pressure being brought against Hamas to do that?

 

And you are telling me that is not some form of collective, if not individual double standards, discrimination, and for Jews, antisemitism?

 

That is my point. Enough is enough.. It's time Hamas stopped targeting its own citizens knowing full well an internationally recognised and legal  sovereign country has the duty to defend and protect from further threat its citizens. But people seem to he holding Israel to some higher moral standards..or some greater level of expected capitulation..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

When asked why deputies shot a criminal 61 times, Brevard County Sherrif replied "Evil can never be dead enough." Same with Houthis, Hamas and Hesbollah.

"Because they're American" would probably be a better answer.

[facthunter]

I wanna be part of the action, even though he's ALREADY DEAD.. I'm one really tough on criminals type of guy . Hmm Nev

[Marty_d]

Seriously though you have to ask about police procedures and training if they manage to pump 61 rounds into 1 person.  Surely they're not trained to empty their whole magazine while others do the same.

[old man emu]

Bullets cost money. I was trained to fire two shots then stop and reassess. It took more time to do the paperwork for the issue of two new rounds than it did to do the Critical Incident enquiry. 

 

The only time I went through a lot of rounds was at the annual recertification where we used wadcutters after having used what we were already carrying. That meant i got fresh rounds once a year if I never had to fire the gun in anger.

[facthunter]

When I pack a ROD, I'm GOD. This is America Buddy.  Nev