Islam(aphobia)

[gareth lacey]

So since 9/11 47,000 terrorist attacks in 70 countries around the world ALL committed by islamists(i did not say all Muslims), Hindu religion 0, Buddhist religion 0, Taoist religion 0, and the woke brigade say that islam is a peaceful relgion, no i am not saying that all Muslim people are terrorist, most are peaceful and practice thier religion the way that they interpret it,the IRA did lots of terrorist attacks in the 60s,70,80s, and they have settled down to the political way to get thier greviances heard, not so the islamist, they do not want to be part of democracy, and generally hate all things western, they (some muslim refugees) want to bring thier problems and sharia to western counries around the world, they are not peaceful, and you can see this in the war in palistine, the Israelies will not allow them to massacre innocents, and before you say it ,the people who have died are the result of the WAR strted by hamas and its backers,the Israelies are way to smart and also have the backing of most of the western  countries, during WW11 2 million Germans died as a result of bombing,60,000 during the blitz of London, all collateral damage  yet we do no condemn the brits or Germans , islam cannot and will not ever coexist with western values. Its time we we had some pollies that have backbone (both sides of the political parties) that tell the islamists NO we dont want you in our country go back home and practice it amongst your own people .

[octave]

6 minutes ago, gareth lacey said:

So since 9/11 47,000 terrorist attacks in 70 countries around the world ALL committed by islamists(i did not say all Muslims)

Dont forget white supremacists  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings

 

[gareth lacey]

Yes you are right , a handfull against 47,000

 

[facthunter]

Yeah we are JUST great. The GOOD guys  who never do bad things. Take your blinkers off. Every Colonising country did bad things and exploited the Locals  The yanks had permanent troops stationed in Saudia Consider the Vietnam war. he French had enough brains to get out.. the Korean war. the war against IRAQ  and Afghanistan. What was done in India and China. Division of the Middle East. The Early British navy consisted of Pirates  THE Crusades for Plunder. A  lot of British settlements were no more than Penal Colonies. Mexico was completely over run and pillaged by the Spanish  African colonisation and exploitation for it's resources with no benefit to the Locals Nigeria,  Rhodesia  Plenty more.  Muslims are just one of the 3 Abrahamic Religions and Muslim's are further divided into Wahabi ,Sunny and Shi ite.  Christians have killed Plenty of each other too. Hitler was a Catholic.  nev

[gareth lacey]

Yes ,but we are not talking about historical times its NOW that the islamists terrorisng the world,I am with the Israelies , never back down keep killimg the terorists Facthunter have you faced hostiles did you serve , if not well 

 

[facthunter]

Aw, C'mon. Don't tell me I can't comment unless I've served. Thats a bit rough. YOU can't lump ALL Muslims  together, either. Do some people's lives not count.? Women and children are the Majority of the casualties in GAZA. Lots of Journo's and medical people too. Russia and Trump are NOT Muslim, Neither is China OR North Korea . The massacre of Muslims in New Zealand was done by an Australian. Are you OK with That? Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

"We've just got to live with Islamic terrorism" - The Mayor of London

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, gareth lacey said:

So since 9/11 47,000 terrorist attacks in 70 countries around the world ALL committed by islamists

And not a jot of gain for their cause, except the condemnation of the rest of us.

[onetrack]

It's too late, the genie is already out of the bottle, we should never have imported the huge number of criminal Lebanese from Southern Lebanon that Malcolm Fraser allowed in to Australia with no background checks. The Immigration Dept blokes of the time were fuming over Frasers traitorous and illegal act - and he refused to acknowledge that he let them in, all the rest of his life.

 

Since 1976-77, when these criminal Muslims arrived, Australia has experienced Muslim terrorism - SW Sydney, where all these people ended up, has turned into Crime Central, home to all the insurance fraud, drug-dealing, car theft and re-birthing, Centrelink scams, internet scams originating from these suburbs, and a massive proliferation of demands, that are all designed to pander to Islamic culture. They voted in an Islamic Mayor who turned out to be nothing more than a common criminal.

 

They refuse to obey man-made laws, stating that only God makes the laws for them. They are trouble wherever they go, and I'm happy to see Israel attack the seats of Islamic terrorism in the shapes of Palestine, Southern Lebanon, and Iran.

Lebanon was once a thriving country, now it's the basket case of the Middle East, with no functioning govt or law, intermittent energy supplies, and armed tribal gangs ruling their "territory". The place is starting to make Haiti look like a good place to live.

[gareth lacey]

50 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Aw, C'mon. Don't tell me I can't comment unless I've served. Thats a bit rough. YOU can't lump ALL Muslims  together, either. Do some people's lives not count.? Women and children are the Majority of the casualties in GAZA. Lots of Journo's and medical people too. Russia and Trump are NOT Muslim, Neither is China OR North Korea . The massacre of Muslims in New Zealand was done by an Australian. Are you OK with That? Nev

I did say not all muslims are terrorists,we should hunt terrorists diwn and exterinate them the world is better off without them and as for you not serving that was to remind you that those of us who served in hostile enviroments have a better understanding tabout conflict we had 1 arm tied behind because of the craven cowards who sent us out (pollies) brits in my case the Israelies  dont seem to suffer this problem unless its blatent illegal, so yes bad stuff by has happened historically but in these last years it is only the islamists who commit all the illegal acts

[facthunter]

That is NOT true  I really do not want to stir you up. One terrorist is someone else's freedom fighter  often  The lines get Blurred. I was transiting Frankfurt-main frequently when  the Baader- Meinhof gang were active  Left wing west German terrorist organisation. Had In flight bomb scares as crew out of Port Moresby. Had machine gun Pointing whatever's come aboard in Karachi. Flying into Christmas Island knowing a diversion to Indonesia would be Gaol time of an unknow length. The entire Place was an ADIZ Our relations with Indonesia were not good at that time. I lost a lot of my hearing with teaching people to fire  the Vickers machine guns and  Mortars at  Singleton Spent time in parts of France which was under Vichy control during the war (where they still say "the walls have EARS). Several of my mates were hijacked. There was a lot of that going on.  Look I'm not sure this FORUM is a proper place to run this discussion,  particularly with How sensitive the  Israeli thing is.in Australia. Nev

Edited January 22 by facthunter

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

If we stay on topic, I see no problem discussing it, sensitive or not.

Islamic terrorism has proved to be a very enduring criminal activity. There are a lot of citizens who excuse it when they shouldn't, and that presents a real problem for any nation. All of us should condemn it.

Edited January 22 by Grumpy Old Nasho

[gareth lacey]

The savage terrorists of oct 7  wete not freedom fighters or soldiers just pure evil savages,burning babies in thier cots mutalating women and old folk and taking prisonets to use as bargaining and hostages is a  crime against humanity shame on anyone who condones that , the Israelies should use any and all means to eradicate hamas they are a scourge of the palistinians and the world

[facthunter]

For the sake of the Forum you should close it down . At the moment this is a red hot thing you'd be well advised to stay away from. This is an OPEN forum. More "Guest" visitors than our own group at any time. Do your, JOB Moderators. Wipe the LOT. Make the decision.  It's a NO win situation. believe me. .Nev

[old man emu]

8 minutes ago, facthunter said:

For the sake of the Forum you should close it down .

That does sound like a good thing to do BUT it would go against the ethos of this forum that we have established amongst ourselves over the years. I state it quite plainly now that I totally disagree with Gareth's position. However, I'll hold the mike for him so that he can express it. That's the ethos of this forum - recognising the right of each member to express an opinion. 

 

But we must consider if the debate of such a contentious topic as the Palestinian situation with such fervour is for the overall good of the forum. Sometimes a decision to pull back from a confrontation is the valorous thing to do. Perhaps, for the sake of the forum we might agree to disagree; get onto another topic, and let this one wither on the vine.

 

I know that there will be responses to this post, and I don't mind. But will the decision be to drop the topic?

[facthunter]

There are serious penalties being legislated  and proposed. Right now. It's NOT about stifling someone's view. I've NEVER been for that. Your job is to reduce ian's risk first and foremost.  . Nev

[old man emu]

13 minutes ago, facthunter said:

There are serious penalties being legislated  and proposed.

Didn't think of that. So much for a mob of grumpy old men not being allowed to say what they think. Big Brother is watching.

[facthunter]

They are trying to put a lid on what could become a real disaster, Clearly they HAVE to do something as we don't want to fight overseas wars, Here..It's going off the rails. Some people would like that of course.  Sells more Papers for ONE Nev. 

[gareth lacey]

If i went on about the catholic religion and what they have dne in the past no one would tell me to shut it down, if we cannot  state the obvious then the woke brigade have won, my Father and the best of that era fought and died to uphold freedom , the islamists want us to shut down , if Ian thinks this will harm him , then get rid of it.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Whoa! It looks like NSW is looking at extending hate speech to include vilification, which is abusively disparaging writing or speech.. or thereabouts. It is, as far as I can tell, in NSW only, and it is not yet law, So, from a legal perspective, unless they make it retrospective, there would appear to be little legal risk.

 

There appears to be little factually incorrect with Gareth's opening post in terms of the numbers of recent terrorist incidents and the background of the majority of perpetrators; at least from what I could find out through researching the web.. over a short period of time. There has been Hindu terrorism and a recognised Hindu terrorist organisation in India, but the numbers of attributed attacks are low, in comparison so as not to make a material difference.

 

But in those facts are also omissions that we need to bring to light.. The first is context. i.e. where are those terrorist attacks occuring.The vast majority are in Northern Africa, Middle East, and Northen Asia (Pakistan). Outside of these areas, there is comparatively few terrorist attacks, and in the US, UK, etc. the number of terrorist attacks by Islam v non-Islam is a little more even, but at least, from the reports, the more extreme ones are generally take more casualties than non-Islam terrorist attacks (I say, generally). In fact US agencies, and I think ASIO and MI-5, not exactly woke, seem to be more worried about white supremacist and non-Islam foreign backed terrorism on their respective shores than they are Islam  And interestingly, from this article, https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-nij-research-tells-us-about-domestic-terrorism:

 

"The situational characteristics of the crimes, including whether the acts were premeditated or spontaneous, involved co-conspirators, or were committed while under the influence of drugs and alcohol."

 

23 hours ago, facthunter said:

Do some people's lives not count.? Women and children are the Majority of the casualties in GAZA.

Again, by all accounts, cannot fault this as fact. But, like the above, it is out of context, For the sake of brevity, I have been through that context in many other posts. But, before the late Yenn posted about his thoughts on Israel when the UAE was normalising its relations with Israel, I pretty well went along with the above. His comments sparked a curiosity in which the context has changed my mind on Israel and the conflict. Of course it's a tragedy that innocent civilians are losing their lives..

 

My point is there are difficult subjects, but without the ability to express one's views and debate the merits of it, suppressing it just takes it underground and forments even more hatred and polarisation. If we can't debate civilly, and are truly worried out words here would spark riots or incite crime, then, the world has become a bad place, but suppressing that speech will make it worse

 

Look at how the far right is growing. Trump, anyone?

 

[facthunter]

 Respectfully, Jerry, You are Muddying the water,  at  this point on this topic. I suggest there is some urgency here. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Can you pls elaborate the reasons for the urgency? I seriously fail to understand it

 

[facthunter]

We have already said enough. WHY run the risk? Be risk averse till you are sure.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I am really don't understand what risk you are referring to.. Seriously... Just saying we are running the risk means nothing to me.. And I work in risk management.

[Marty_d]

I think anyone can, without fear of any legal consequence, point out that terrorism of any sort is just wrong.

I'm kind of with OME on this.  Gareth has a right to say what he thinks.  

Yes there might be omissions (there's some pretty rabid and disgusting christian terrorists in Africa for example) and I may not agree with his assertions or conclusions, but shutting him down because a law may or may not be proposed which would not be retrospective in any case, is a bit hard.

 

If Ian or his proxies (the Mods) decide the risk is too great, by all means.  But that's his call.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23 by Marty_d