Will the lessons of the 2024 US elections be applied to our 2025 elections?

[Marty_d]

13 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I don't agree with that.. because it sends a false signal to the politicians that you approve of their policies and if they win enough, they don't unreasonably claim a mandate, which is not the intention of voting for the lest objectionable candidate, and nor shoudl the message be conveyed that they have a mandate.

 

I would love for one day, when there is only less objectionable rather than preferred candidates, that the vast majority of ballots returned are blank, and that gives the pollies pause for thought that they are not listening.

Not voting at all doesn't send any signal. And these days any winning party claims a mandate.

They don't care that you disengage from the process, as long as you don't vote for their opposition.

Voting for minor parties or independents definitely gets their attention, because then they have to negotiate with the cross bench to get anything done.

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

The Electorate can dis endorse them

While there may be a process to enable that to happen, who are the ones to initiate it? Could you or I actually do it? For success, it would need agreement of many thousands within the electorate. Surely the politician's Party would fight the process tooth and nail. 

 

In other words, there is n practical way the voters in an electorate could oust a non-performing member. 

[onetrack]

There is a way to express dissatisfaction with an elected representative, and it's called a petition. You need to gather up a lot of signatories before a petition can be presented, though.

In many other countries, a process called Recall Petition is used and it has electoral and legislative support. A Recall Petition can be brought to the Govt of the day to express disenchantment with the elected members performance and to request that they be replaced.

 

In Australia, there is no Recall Petition process - simple petitioning must be used. There have been discussions on introducing a Recall Petition process, but the discussions have bogged down in how the fine details would be worked out.

 

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/researchpapers/Documents/recall-elections/Recall Elections E Brief.pdf

[facthunter]

The Local Party Member's decide that by a simple Ballot. . . Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

While there may be a process to enable that to happen, who are the ones to initiate it? Could you or I actually do it? For success, it would need agreement of many thousands within the electorate. Surely the politician's Party would fight the process tooth and nail. 

I am not sure about Australia, and its states, but in the UK, an electorate can recall an MP for serious misconduct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_of_MPs_Act_2015#

 

 

[old man emu]

10 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Local Party Member's decide that by a simple Ballot. . . Nev

But are the local Party Branch members likely to go against a sitting member since removing a sitting member results in a by-election. Obviously the local Branch members who endorsed the sitting member over all other contenders would be the candidate's closest supporters. Also the number of local Branch members is but a very small proportion of the total number of electors in an electorate. Joining a Party and being active in it is much like joining any other sort of club, say a bowls club. 

[old man emu]

6 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I am not sure about Australia, and its states, but in the UK, an electorate can recall an MP for serious misconduct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_of_MPs_Act_2015#

From Jerry's reference:

Unlike recall procedures in some other countries, the act does not allow constituents to initiate proceedings. Proceedings are initiated only if an MP is found guilty of wrongdoing fulfilling certain criteria.

 

Section 1 sets out the circumstances in which the Speaker of the House of Commons – or, in certain cases, their deputies – would trigger the recall process:

1. Any custodial prison sentence, even if suspended. (A sentence longer than one year would lead to automatic removal under the Representation of the People Act 1981.)

2. A conviction for providing false or misleading expenses claims.

 

COMMENT: There's no means of recalling a member if the member is simply proven to be useless. 

[facthunter]

Thats where CANDIDATES get "appointed' and that's where they can be replaced IF they are not happy with the Individuals Performance. It's THAT simple. This is in the House of representatives, that serve Electorates. Nev

 

 

Psst. OME. You might get some rain Friday.  Nev

Edited 19 hours ago by facthunter

[old man emu]

25 minutes ago, facthunter said:

OME. You might get some rain Friday. 

 

Got rain yesterday - refilled my drinking water tanks. It's amazing how quickly the vegetation responds to a drink. The straw colour is going out of the paddocks and the green is showing through. I hope tomorrow is dry. I need to do some laundry.

[rgmwa]

After months of complaints about how the rain keeps missing your place, one lucky day of rain and now you want it to stop?

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Thats where CANDIDATES get "appointed' and that's where they can be replaced IF they are not happy with the Individuals Performance. It's THAT simple. This is in the House of representatives, that serve Electorates. Nev

 

 

Psst. OME. You might get some rain Friday.  Nev

That is true, but the party cannot compel an MP to resign or vacate the house. Often though, and MP who is thrown out of a the party will not survive the next election, so I guess they are given notice.

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

From Jerry's reference:

Unlike recall procedures in some other countries, the act does not allow constituents to initiate proceedings. Proceedings are initiated only if an MP is found guilty of wrongdoing fulfilling certain criteria.

 

Section 1 sets out the circumstances in which the Speaker of the House of Commons – or, in certain cases, their deputies – would trigger the recall process:

1. Any custodial prison sentence, even if suspended. (A sentence longer than one year would lead to automatic removal under the Representation of the People Act 1981.)

2. A conviction for providing false or misleading expenses claims.

 

COMMENT: There's no means of recalling a member if the member is simply proven to be useless. 

The act has been used for misconduct successfully. I sort of agree there shouldn't be an ability to move a popularly elected representative for being useless, because what is the definition of useless?  Is it one bad decision, or is it never getting a vote through, or is it just not turning up to the chamber enough? What about if they do things that people don't agree with because they are ahead of their time. Imagine an MP 20 years ago working hard for the environment, and, sadly in the eyes of many today, doing so now? What about those who campaign tirelessly for DEI/D&I, rights of minorities, immigrants, etc? Are they useless because they aren't causes a lot agree with. or because they are not at the forefront of the minds of most of the voters? What about the odd commie? Are they uselsess because they pursue an ideology that is repugnant to you and I?

 

Or what if they make one bad decision. At a company, the knee jerk reaction for a real bad decision is to fire someone. However, at a management course I was sent to in the 90s (and not to use it until  much later), a case study was IBM's decision not to fire an exec who cost them $300m, then. One board member argued it would be handing the the benefits of the $300m lesson. Would we take out Albo or Marles because they are staying in AUKUS, for example? What's the threshold of usefulness?

 

There should be (and I am sure there is in Australia) a code of conduct that all MPs have to adhere to, and if they break this, then they should be subject to sanction, depending on the nature of the breach, that could be a warning, remedial training, to automatic expulsion.

 

The Erskine rules for the house of commons, for example, results in an expulsion for misleading parliament and not correcting the record when made aware at the ealiest possible opportunity. Boris Johnson resigned just before the speaker was about to bestow him with that honour, over partygate.  Calling an MP a liar in the chamber without recalling the statement will result in an automatic ejection from the chamber for a period of time. The ex SNP leader in the House of Commons excused himself after calling BoJo a liar and not retracting it (although because he execused himself before the speaker suspended him, he was able to return for the next session). I liked that guy.

 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

what is the definition of useless?

Who can really say? There is no written job description for the role of elected member, as there are for any other type of employment. Therefore, there is no standard against which to judge the performance of a politician. I think that the electorate can accept it if their member belongs to a Party whose proposals don't get accepted because the Party is not in government. 

 

I think that one would call an elected member useless if in fact they did not attend parliamentary sessions to at least listen to debates and to vote. If the member spent most time galivanting around the country or overseas on "fact finding" missions without providing parliament or its committees with the found facts, then that hints at being useless. In other words, the electorate should be able recall a member who does not do the parliamentary work that is being paid for.

 

It's difficult t express myself here, but I think I can sum up my idea by saying that a member should be able to be called into line or even recalled for bludging.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think boith of those examples are conduct - dereliction of duty and fraudulently using taxpayers money to go on jollies.

 

Dutton's tript to Sydney for his fundraising was on the taxpayers $, covered by some incidental duties, apparently...

 

Bishop's helicopter flight is another I can recall..

 

What about perks such as Chairman's lounge membership?

 

 

[facthunter]

You can do things which are Part of your parliamentary Job in the Chairmans Lounge.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Like deny Qatar Airlines application for more slots?

Edited 4 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

That's not a serious response. Most Countries Like their own Pilots flying routes in their own country..   Nev